"10 Fictional Languages That Can Be Learnt"

Started by Ftxavanga Txe′lan, July 26, 2011, 10:07:15 PM

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Ftxavanga Txe′lan

Today I came across a very interesting webpage. :D It gives a "top", so to say, of the ten conlangs language lovers should learn. :) I found the list quite interesting (besides, it includes Na'vi), so I just had to share it here. ;D

Here is what the website says. :) For videos and links, please visit the webpage!




Of course, the ranking they give is debatable. What do you guys think? :D

· Do you agree with Na'vi's position?
· What language would you have preferred as #1?
· Are important conlangs missing in there?
· Were some of those mentioned languages unknown to you?
· Did the "top" make you discover something new?  

I'd like to read your thoughts about this. :)

Syulang

Well, it's me again.  ;D Damn, I cant see the webpage >:(  :P I'm at school. Oh well, I'll check it out when I get home.  ;D
Oel ayngati kameie ma oeyä aysmukan sì aysmuke ulte Eywa ayngahu livu

munea kifkey, 'awa soaia

Tsäroltxe te Eyrutì Tantse'itan



Lance R. Casey

Well, my spontaneous reaction is that placing "Elvish" as #1 of "languages that can be learnt" is somewhat inappropriate, since there simply is not "one" Elvish to learn, regardless of how you define "one" or "Elvish".

// Lance R. Casey

Ftxavanga Txe′lan

Quote from: Syulang on July 26, 2011, 10:15:44 PM
Well, it's me again.  ;D Damn, I cant see the webpage >:(  :P I'm at school. Oh well, I'll check it out when I get home.  ;D
Okay! :) Anyway, if you really can't access the webpage, I rewrote practically everything in the spoilers, so you can look it up there. ;)

For my part, I didn't know about Nadsat, Aklo, Simlish and Newspeak. :o I was also quite surprised that they put Parseltongue in the top. Of course, I've always known Harry and Voldemort can talk to snakes, but I wasn't aware it was an "official language", so to speak. :) I'll have to check out that website they give, must be interesting. ;) Also, I wasn't aware there were native Esperanto speakers! :o It's simply amazing.

Quote from: Lance R. Casey on July 27, 2011, 05:29:17 AM
Well, my spontaneous reaction is that placing "Elvish" as #1 of "languages that can be learnt" is somewhat inappropriate, since there simply is not "one" Elvish to learn, regardless of how you define "one" or "Elvish".
Yes, I see what you mean! Of course I find it awesome that it's #1, but some logic is missing in there indeed. ??? I wonder: if they had separated the two major Elvish languages, which one would have been the #1? Probably Sindarin, I guess? :) But then, there's Adûnaic, Westron, Khuzdul, Orcish/Black Speech, Rohirric and other less developed Elvish languages.. ;D

Dreamlight

I have issues with Esperanto, that I'd rather not get into here.

Also, it boggles me that Simlish made the list at all, ditto Parseltongue.  :P

That Newspeak is on the list intrigues me a little.  I've seen entire texts written in it, which surprises me all the more.  On the other hand it probably really is the easiest of these to learn, at least to an English speaker.

The Elvish languages I think deserve their number one position.  Tolkien really thought out these languages, even considering how they might have evolved from each other and from more primitive forms.  The whole thing in fact started as a thought experiment in evolutionary linguistics.

Oh, yeah.  Na'vi.  It certainly should be ahead of Simlish at least.
http://www.reverbnation.com/inkubussukkubus
"Peace on Earth" was all it said.

Ftxavanga Txe′lan

Quote from: Dreamlight on July 27, 2011, 09:52:57 PM
I have issues with Esperanto, that I'd rather not get into here.

Well, this threat is exactly for that, isn't it? ;D Conlangs is the general topic. :)

Quote from: Dreamlight on July 27, 2011, 09:52:57 PMOh, yeah.  Na'vi.  It certainly should be ahead of Simlish at least.

Mllte. I found that somehow ridiculous, actually. :-\

wm.annis

Experienced conlangers were rather irritated by this post. :)  Now fewer than four of the items on the list are, in fact, not "learnable" in the usual sense of that word.  There's no grammar available for them, and precious little vocabulary.  And a few others are so little documented that while one could speak them a little, you wouldn't be able to say much.

Ftxavanga Txe′lan

#8
Quote from: wm.annis on July 28, 2011, 08:03:11 AM
Experienced conlangers were rather irritated by this post. :)  Now fewer than four of the items on the list are, in fact, not "learnable" in the usual sense of that word.  There's no grammar available for them, and precious little vocabulary.  And a few others are so little documented that while one could speak them a little, you wouldn't be able to say much.

What languages of the list in particular are not learnable and/or are little documented? Do you know that? :) I'm curious. :D

Edit: I'm slightly doubtful about the veracity of the webpage's content now.. :P I looked at another of their tops on "legendary & fictional swords" (fìtsenge), and there is a mistake in the title of one of the swords. :-\ It says Nasril / Andúril, whereas the sword of Elendil is Narsil, of course. ::) At least it seems to have been just a typo, but I still find it not professional that they're making mistakes. :D

wm.annis

Quote from: Ftxavanga Txe′lan on July 28, 2011, 08:56:24 AMWhat languages of the list in particular are not learnable and/or are little documented?

Nadsat is just a slang with a heavy Russian import.  Never developed beyond the needs of the book.

Parseltongue is nonsense.  (By "nonsense" here I mean, there's no grammar or real vocab, just a stylistic touch to meet story requirements.)

Aklo is basically undocumented.

Simlish is also nonsense.

Newspeak was never developed beyond the book, though of course people like to offer their own versions of it.

Huh.  That's five.

I would maintain that Antlantean, and maybe even Tolkien's languages, are only marginally learnable.  There's too little certain grammar and vocabulary, though Tolkien's Quenya is nearly usable, if you squint real hard and ignore Tolkien's endless tinkering.  In the end, only Esperanto and Klingon really meet reasonable expectations for "can be learnt" of a language, though Na'vi is getting there as vocab gaps get filled.

Ftxavanga Txe′lan

Thanks for your answer. :) Five languages, that's a lot! :o

Regarding Tolkien's languages, I see what you mean. Unless Christopher Tolkien publishes a lot of new material in the future, for now I would also say that only Quenya can be truly used - and maybe also Sindarin, if one is willing to re-write nearly every sentence he wants to say because of lack or vocabulary and very limited grammar. The problem in such a case is that many, many people would like to learn one of those two Elvish languages, and some scholars (*cough* David Salo *cough*) feel that they can interpret them in whatever way they want in order to make the learning easier, clearer and more complete. Language expansion, so to speak. In the end, much doesn't come from Tolkien, and if you want to stick to the Master, there isn't much available material.

wm.annis

Quote from: Ftxavanga Txe′lan on July 28, 2011, 12:32:45 PMThe problem in such a case is that many, many people would like to learn one of those two Elvish languages, and some scholars (*cough* David Salo *cough*) feel that they can interpret them in whatever way they want in order to make the learning easier, clearer and more complete.

And this is the other problem with the Elvish languages.  No matter what you do, to produce a correct sentence will almost inevitably require one to make some choices with scarce information.  You have to make your best choice.  And the instant you do, a bunch of other people are going to jump down your throat.  Honestly, the unfriendliness of some of the Elvish language poo-bahs is one reason I stay away from the subject.

Ftxavanga Txe′lan

Quote from: wm.annis on July 28, 2011, 02:01:34 PMAnd the instant you do, a bunch of other people are going to jump down your throat.  Honestly, the unfriendliness of some of the Elvish language poo-bahs is one reason I stay away from the subject.

Oh my.. I did notice that, too. :-X Some Elvish fellows are really nice, just like people here on LN, but many others are real purists (which isn't frequent at all in the Na'vi community). ::) I personally find that the learning is very nice and enriching with the right friendly people - once you've found some of them, it's great. But if not, well.. it becomes solitary learning, unfortunately. :-\

Seseni

I saw this list on another site. It's actually how I found this website!

May the odds be ever in your favor.

Dreamlight

Quenya and Sindarin are both well-documented, at least enough for a good grasp of the grammar; what they really need is vocabulary.
http://www.reverbnation.com/inkubussukkubus
"Peace on Earth" was all it said.

Ftxavanga Txe′lan

Quote from: Dreamlight on July 29, 2011, 08:18:18 PM
Quenya and Sindarin are both well-documented, at least enough for a good grasp of the grammar; what they really need is vocabulary.
I totally agree here. By the way, are you learning one of those two languages? :) I think I might have read about it in the Elvish thread or something, but I don't remember anymore. :P

It's sad, I can't find anything about Parseltongue, except the website they already mentioned on Smashing Lists. :( It really is not documented at all. I could only find a cool vid on youtube. It sounds quite computer-generated like, if you want my opinion, but oh well. :P


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_QDUfEpl5Jo#

Äteya

Parseltongue!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!  ;D :o ;D
I wish there was enough words to learn it but the only spoken words are in the movies and there's not a lot of them(words, not movies). :(
Also in the books it only has the words in English. :(

Kamean

Parseltongue! Great! :)

And it really exists, or is it just an imitation?
Tse'a ngal ke'ut a krr fra'uti kame.


Äteya


Ftxavanga Txe′lan

Quote from: Äteya on July 30, 2011, 06:09:33 PM
I think it's just an imitation. :(
Yes, I think so too.. :( There is this webpage where one can get English words translated into Parseltongue, but unless I misunderstood the concept I believe the website crew must've made up most of the words on there.