Creating a language

Started by MIPP, December 18, 2010, 08:07:47 AM

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MIPP

Hi!

I'm MIPP and I would like to create an artificial language. Ok, maybe I already tried once, but as you are much more expert on the subject than I am, I am creating this thread.

What advices could you give me?
What guides on Internet would you recommend?
Is there any (free) place where I can create my language? (like conlang.org...)

For those who want to see my first created language, although I haven't finished it, here it is (in Portuguese, you may need to translate it  :():

Na'vi for beginners | Dict-Na'vi.com

Hufwe lìng io pay, nìfnu slä nìlaw.
Loveless, Act IV.

Plumps

Unfortunately, I don't know Portugese :(

But for an entry, try The Language Construction Kit. It's an interesting read and lets you think about foreign concepts in languages that you wouldn't normally think of right away, but I guess we're trained to that by now through Na'vi ;)
Also, I think there is a Wiki for presentations of constructed languages. There's also a mailing list of the Language Creation Society. Taronyu or wm.annis can help you further with this, I guess.

MIPP

Quote from: Plumps on December 18, 2010, 08:14:04 AM
Unfortunately, I don't know Portugese :(

But for an entry, try The Language Construction Kit. It's an interesting read and lets you think about foreign concepts in languages that you wouldn't normally think of right away, but I guess we're trained to that by now through Na'vi ;)
Also, I think there is a Wiki for presentations of constructed languages. There's also a mailing list of the Language Creation Society. Taronyu or wm.annis can help you further with this, I guess.


The wiki I already knew but I don't like it.
As for the Language Construction Kit, it seems a very interesting doc, I shall use it  :D
If anyone else knows how to help me, I will be very grateful  ;D

Edit: how does the Mailing List works?
Na'vi for beginners | Dict-Na'vi.com

Hufwe lìng io pay, nìfnu slä nìlaw.
Loveless, Act IV.

Kì’onga Vul

First, you'll have to decide whether you want a posteriori language (draws its vocabulary by modifying that of other languages) or an a priori language (you make up all the words yourself).  I think there's a program on www.langmaker.com where you can put in criteria for words and it will generate a bunch for you, but that would take a lot of the fun out of it, I think.  But also a lot of the work.

You also get the option of creating your own new writing system!  Check out some ideas at www.omniglot.com to see writing systems used for real languages, constructed scripts for real languages, and constructed scripts for constructed languages.

I would read up on some existing conlangs, even if they're not that well-known.  This might not help you in the actual creation process, but will give you an idea of some of the neat options open to you with languages, concepts that don't exist in English or Na'vi.  For example, Lin tries to be as concise as possible; Ido/Esperanto ends all nouns with the same letter, same with adjectives, etc.; Ithkuil has a crazy pictoral writing sytem; there's some language which has no verbs (AllNoun?); Dritok uses squirrel sounds; and all sorts of other things.  If you don't decide to borrow any of these ideas, they'll at least get the creative juices flowing.

I would also suggest starting to learn a conlang, but because you're here, that's already done!
學而時習之!
Did I make an error you just can't stand to let survive?  Please, correct me!  I'll give you candy or something.

Kì’onga Vul

Oh, if you get tired of reading screens, you can check out In the Land of Invented Languages by Arika Okrent.  If nothing else, it's fascinating and hilarious.
學而時習之!
Did I make an error you just can't stand to let survive?  Please, correct me!  I'll give you candy or something.

Tsufätu Ayioangä

I agree with you!  I've always wanted to creat my own language and now that I'm not the only one (and I have some tools to do it) I just might!

Good luck with yours and when you get some stuff done, let me know I'd love to take a look at it.

MIPP

Thanks for your help!

I am really busy and I have only written the phonetics, but I'll try to do a little bit more :)
Na'vi for beginners | Dict-Na'vi.com

Hufwe lìng io pay, nìfnu slä nìlaw.
Loveless, Act IV.

Kì’onga Vul

I'm curious, does your language have a specific driving purpose behind it? 

For example, Na'vi, Klingon, and Sindarin were created to be the language of a fictional race.  Lin and Ithkuil tried to be maximally concise.  Láadan was from a woman's point of view.  And then there are languages which try just to be beautiful, or interesting, or unique.

I'm always interested in the motivations for conlangers, the ranks of whom I may join in the future. ::)
學而時習之!
Did I make an error you just can't stand to let survive?  Please, correct me!  I'll give you candy or something.

Tsufätu Ayioangä

Well I've decided my language is going to be mainly nagical in perpous, the use of the language will transport the speakers to a world beyond their comprehension where they will find themselves in the mudst of great adventure.

'Oma Tirea

I'm starting in on SpML, where my main challenge is vocab...

I have several variants of the phonology...
I have several writing systems for it, including a constructed one...

Don't expect it to be online on a blog for a while :P...

[img]http://swokaikran.skxawng.lu/sigbar/nwotd.php?p=2b[/img]

ÌTXTSTXRR!!

Srake serar le'Ìnglìsìa lì'fyayä aylì'ut?  Nari si älofoniru rutxe!!

kewnya txamew'itan

Quote from: Sxkxawng alu 'Oma Tirea on December 20, 2010, 11:06:33 PM
I have several writing systems for it, including a constructed one...

Wouldn't that just be standard notation?
Internet Acronyms Nìna'vi

hamletä tìralpuseng lena'vi sngolä'eiyi. tìkangkem si awngahu ro
http://bit.ly/53GnAB
The translation of Hamlet into Na'vi has started! Join with us at http://bit.ly/53GnAB

txo nga new oehu pivlltxe nìna'vi, nga oer 'eylan si mì fayspuk (http://bit.ly/bp9fwf)
If you want to speak na'vi to me, friend me on facebook (http://bit.ly/bp9fwf)

numena'viyä hapxì amezamkivohinve
learnnavi's

MIPP

I am sure that if anyone paid me well to create the language I would have much more than I have at the moment  ;D
Is anyone interested on it, for a film maybe?  ::)
Na'vi for beginners | Dict-Na'vi.com

Hufwe lìng io pay, nìfnu slä nìlaw.
Loveless, Act IV.

Kì’onga Vul

Quote from: Sxkxawng alu 'Oma Tirea on December 20, 2010, 11:06:33 PM
I'm starting in on SpML, where my main challenge is vocab...

I have several variants of the phonology...
I have several writing systems for it, including a constructed one...

Don't expect it to be online on a blog for a while :P...

If you were going for accessibility, I guess you would probably want to use either the Latin or Greek alphabet, because people who learn math will already know some of those characters.  (Actually, nevermind, that might make it more confusing.)  However, I always hate to see the opportunity for a constructed script go to waste, even if the script is "optional."

Also, like kewnya txamew'itan mentioned, are any of your writing system options one where you keep standard mathematical notation, but formulate a systematic way for expressions and equations to be pronounced?  Because we have something like a Spoken Math Language now when reading equations and stuff, it just happens to be unpredictable and often ambiguous.  And ugly-sounding.
學而時習之!
Did I make an error you just can't stand to let survive?  Please, correct me!  I'll give you candy or something.

kewnya txamew'itan

Quote from: Kì'onga Vul on December 21, 2010, 09:40:26 AM
Quote from: Sxkxawng alu 'Oma Tirea on December 20, 2010, 11:06:33 PM
I'm starting in on SpML, where my main challenge is vocab...

I have several variants of the phonology...
I have several writing systems for it, including a constructed one...

Don't expect it to be online on a blog for a while :P...

If you were going for accessibility, I guess you would probably want to use either the Latin or Greek alphabet, because people who learn math will already know some of those characters.  (Actually, nevermind, that might make it more confusing.)  However, I always hate to see the opportunity for a constructed script go to waste, even if the script is "optional."

Also, like kewnya txamew'itan mentioned, are any of your writing system options one where you keep standard mathematical notation, but formulate a systematic way for expressions and equations to be pronounced?  Because we have something like a Spoken Math Language now when reading equations and stuff, it just happens to be unpredictable and often ambiguous.  And ugly-sounding.

Most of those ambiguities go away when you start using either polish notation or RPN (i.e. saying +2,6 or 2,6+ instead of 2+6 (the first is polish notation and the second RPN)) which do so by eliminating the need for brackets. In fact, I'm struggling to think of any ambiguity when speaking that couldn't be solved using it (although of course, seeing as Sxkxawng wants more than just a few conventions to improve current spoken maths, whilst a useful starting point, is certainly not the end of the road).
Internet Acronyms Nìna'vi

hamletä tìralpuseng lena'vi sngolä'eiyi. tìkangkem si awngahu ro
http://bit.ly/53GnAB
The translation of Hamlet into Na'vi has started! Join with us at http://bit.ly/53GnAB

txo nga new oehu pivlltxe nìna'vi, nga oer 'eylan si mì fayspuk (http://bit.ly/bp9fwf)
If you want to speak na'vi to me, friend me on facebook (http://bit.ly/bp9fwf)

numena'viyä hapxì amezamkivohinve
learnnavi's

Kì’onga Vul

Quote from: kewnya txamew'itan on December 21, 2010, 10:23:57 AM
Quote from: Kì'onga Vul on December 21, 2010, 09:40:26 AM
Quote from: Sxkxawng alu 'Oma Tirea on December 20, 2010, 11:06:33 PM
I'm starting in on SpML, where my main challenge is vocab...

I have several variants of the phonology...
I have several writing systems for it, including a constructed one...

Don't expect it to be online on a blog for a while :P...

If you were going for accessibility, I guess you would probably want to use either the Latin or Greek alphabet, because people who learn math will already know some of those characters.  (Actually, nevermind, that might make it more confusing.)  However, I always hate to see the opportunity for a constructed script go to waste, even if the script is "optional."

Also, like kewnya txamew'itan mentioned, are any of your writing system options one where you keep standard mathematical notation, but formulate a systematic way for expressions and equations to be pronounced?  Because we have something like a Spoken Math Language now when reading equations and stuff, it just happens to be unpredictable and often ambiguous.  And ugly-sounding.

Most of those ambiguities go away when you start using either polish notation or RPN (i.e. saying +2,6 or 2,6+ instead of 2+6 (the first is polish notation and the second RPN)) which do so by eliminating the need for brackets. In fact, I'm struggling to think of any ambiguity when speaking that couldn't be solved using it (although of course, seeing as Sxkxawng wants more than just a few conventions to improve current spoken maths, whilst a useful starting point, is certainly not the end of the road).

Huh, I'd actually never heard of either of those.  Neat.
學而時習之!
Did I make an error you just can't stand to let survive?  Please, correct me!  I'll give you candy or something.

Tsufätu Ayioangä

*dies* I have no idea what anyone has said these last few posts...

'Oma Tirea

#16
Quote from: kewnya txamew'itan on December 21, 2010, 04:09:54 AM
Quote from: Sxkxawng alu 'Oma Tirea on December 20, 2010, 11:06:33 PM
I have several writing systems for it, including a constructed one...

Wouldn't that just be standard notation?

When writing equations, standard notation is fine.  I don't plan to design a way to rewrite equations, and I could not redo the visual aspects of math if I tried.

...although I am getting a few ideas after reading the above posts...

NB, Latin, Greek, and even Cyrillic systems may be used for writing.  Compatibility with what's already out there is one of my priorities for this language.

[img]http://swokaikran.skxawng.lu/sigbar/nwotd.php?p=2b[/img]

ÌTXTSTXRR!!

Srake serar le'Ìnglìsìa lì'fyayä aylì'ut?  Nari si älofoniru rutxe!!

kewnya txamew'itan

Quote from: Sxkxawng alu 'Oma Tirea on December 22, 2010, 01:24:46 AM
Quote from: kewnya txamew'itan on December 21, 2010, 04:09:54 AM
Quote from: Sxkxawng alu 'Oma Tirea on December 20, 2010, 11:06:33 PM
I have several writing systems for it, including a constructed one...

Wouldn't that just be standard notation?

When writing equations, standard notation is fine.  I don't plan to design a way to rewrite equations, and I could not redo the visual aspects of math if I tried.

...although I am getting a few ideas after reading the above posts...

NB, Latin, Greek, and even Cyrillic systems may be used for writing.  Compatibility with what's already out there is one of my priorities for this language.



One thing I've found interesting is that Polish notation seems very close to VSO/VOS order and RPN to SOV/OSV with the usual infixed notaation being OVS/SVO in my mind.
Internet Acronyms Nìna'vi

hamletä tìralpuseng lena'vi sngolä'eiyi. tìkangkem si awngahu ro
http://bit.ly/53GnAB
The translation of Hamlet into Na'vi has started! Join with us at http://bit.ly/53GnAB

txo nga new oehu pivlltxe nìna'vi, nga oer 'eylan si mì fayspuk (http://bit.ly/bp9fwf)
If you want to speak na'vi to me, friend me on facebook (http://bit.ly/bp9fwf)

numena'viyä hapxì amezamkivohinve
learnnavi's

wm.annis

Quote from: Kì'onga Vul on December 20, 2010, 12:52:15 PMI'm always interested in the motivations for conlangers, the ranks of whom I may join in the future. ::)

Because it's fun?  ;)

Kì’onga Vul

Quote from: wm.annis on December 22, 2010, 05:34:10 PM
Quote from: Kì'onga Vul on December 20, 2010, 12:52:15 PMI'm always interested in the motivations for conlangers, the ranks of whom I may join in the future. ::)

Because it's fun?  ;)

Well yes, of course.  It's just sometimes there's a specific goal, like an international auxiliary language, or fictional world.

But I think fun underlies all of that in any case.
學而時習之!
Did I make an error you just can't stand to let survive?  Please, correct me!  I'll give you candy or something.