English language pet peeves

[Tsamsiyu92]

Remember that discussion in the studied na'vi too long thread?

English wasn't made by a clever proffesor though........it's a bastard spawn of many languages.

[Muzer]

The other irritating one is when ignorant Americans change "can't be arsed" into "can't be asked" - inverting the meaning a little ("I want to do it so much, you don't even have chance to ask me before I'm off doing it" could be one interpretation of "can't be asked").

Ehhh... That's not what "can't be arsed" means. It's (at least in my experience) a slightly more vulgar expression for "can't be bothered", the opposite of the meaning you gave.

Um, no, I know what it means (the vulgar version of "can't be bothered"). The example was what a possible interpretation of "can't be asked" would be, showing that it inverts the meaning.

[Payä Tìrol]

- you're vs your
- they're vs their vs there
- it's vs its

Those are the main offenders. It makes me cringe when I see them misused.

['Oma Tirea]

- hear vs here

Perfect, dialect-independent homophones nowadays, just like break and brake, or great and grate

- you're vs your

- they're vs their vs there

- it's vs its

Ahh, the problems that arise with contractions...

- effect vs affect

- then vs than

...and sometimes reduced vowels/vowel reduction, too.  Another example: Woman vs women.  It's not my standard dialect, but they are both homophonous as something like {wəmɘn}.

Sometimes it can be interesting to look at some of the dialect-dependent mergers: fern-fir-fur merger, marry-merry-Mary merger, vane-vain-vein merger, tower-tire-tar merger, horse-hoarse merger, pa-pop-paw merger, and the father-farther merger.

...and did I mention what has happened to the consonants in English?  The l is dropped in "olk," "alk," "alf," and sometimes "alm" combinations (thus merging half with have (v.)).  There has also been cases of "ch-hardening," where {x} is stopped to {k}.  Examples: psych, loch, Bach (thus creating the lock-loch merger).

Speaking of stop consonants, there has also historically been cases of inital stop drops, so words like "pterronadon" and "cthonic" as well as words like "knife": and "gnome" no longer have their initial sound (thus creating the not-knot and nome-gnome mergers).

...but where were the spelling changes to words that have undergone such consonant changes?

['Oma Tirea]

Remember that discussion in the studied na'vi too long thread?

English wasn't made by a clever proffesor though........it's a bastard spawn of many languages.

I remember seeing that before.  That quote is so true

[Dreamlight]

- further vs farther

This one is debatable. According to wiktionary most (and in my experience almost all) usage guides say that there isn't a real distinction with only a few making one and those usage guides often disagreeing on said distinction (some of them say farther is for distance and further for degree or time whilst the OED (and presumably others as well) states that farther should be the comparative whilst further is the non-comparative form e.g. he ran further and he ran farther than John (did)).

These are still both comparative, technically.

If you really need to get down to the nitty-gritty, "further" and "farther" are both comparatives of "far", and though they are sometimes used interchangeably, if you really want to be nitpickingly precise, "farther" relates to separation in physical space, and "further" relates to separation in time, or metaphorical separation; the same applies to the superlatives "further" and "farther".

[Tompa'Ivong]

Well, the lack of accents, aside from a few words...

meleé, macramé

words with the same spelling ftw, syllable stress ftw

AFFect affect
REFuse refuse
MInute minute



I hear this one alot where I am at:

I asked you a question, wth did you just say, I axed you a question

[Txepä Tsyal]

Remember that discussion in the studied na'vi too long thread?

English wasn't made by a clever proffesor though........it's a bastard spawn of many languages.

I remember seeing that before.  That quote is so true

I must second that wholeheartedly.

The kind of mistake that really ticks me off is phrases changed to sound like they have the opposite meaning of what was intended, e.g. regardless -> *irregardless, couldn't care less -> *could care less.

In addition to phrases, there are some words in the english language that do the exact same thing, e.g. one parks on a driveway and drives on a parkway.

[kewnya txamew'itan]

The other irritating one is when ignorant Americans change "can't be arsed" into "can't be asked" - inverting the meaning a little ("I want to do it so much, you don't even have chance to ask me before I'm off doing it" could be one interpretation of "can't be asked").

Ehhh... That's not what "can't be arsed" means. It's (at least in my experience) a slightly more vulgar expression for "can't be bothered", the opposite of the meaning you gave.

Um, no, I know what it means (the vulgar version of "can't be bothered"). The example was what a possible interpretation of "can't be asked" would be, showing that it inverts the meaning.

*facepalms* sorry, I misinterpreted your post

- they're vs their vs there

...

Ahh, the problems that arise with contractions...

- effect vs affect

- then vs than

...and sometimes reduced vowels/vowel reduction, too.  Another example: Woman vs women.  It's not my standard dialect, but they are both homophonous as something like {wəmɘn}.

Sometimes it can be interesting to look at some of the dialect-dependent mergers: fern-fir-fur merger, marry-merry-Mary merger, vane-vain-vein merger, tower-tire-tar merger, horse-hoarse merger, pa-pop-paw merger, and the father-farther merger.

...and did I mention what has happened to the consonants in English?  The l is dropped in "olk," "alk," "alf," and sometimes "alm" combinations (thus merging half with have (v.)).  There has also been cases of "ch-hardening," where {x} is stopped to {k}.  Examples: psych, loch, Bach (thus creating the lock-loch merger).

Actually they're and their isn't a dialect independent merger. In my accent at least, they're has just a hint of a triphthong towards ì before heading towards schwa whereas their and there (which are merged) go straight to schwa.

As for woman/women, I say [ˈwʊmən] and [ˈwɪmɪn].

Then, I have fir-fur but not fern merged; marry, merry and Mary all distinct but Mary and merry distinguished by length of the initial vowel; vane-vain-vein merged; tower, tyre and tar are all merged; horse and hoarse are merged; pa, pop and paw don't really exist (well, pa does a tiny bit) in my dialect except as deliberate imitations of certain American ones but would usually be unmerged and lastly father and farther are merged (although I fail to see how any non-rhotic dialect could not have).

I think with <alk> (as my example word I'm thinking of balk) I diphthongise it from [ɔ] to [ɔl] I think. The l isn't a proper l, it's as if I head towards it but don't quite make it (hence the comparison to a diphthong). As far as

• hardening, I'm guilty as charged for all except loch which still has a
• for me.
  
  

  
  

  
  

  
  - further vs farther
  

  
  This one is debatable. According to wiktionary most (and in my experience almost all) usage guides say that there isn't a real distinction with only a few making one and those usage guides often disagreeing on said distinction (some of them say farther is for distance and further for degree or time whilst the OED (and presumably others as well) states that farther should be the comparative whilst further is the non-comparative form e.g. he ran further and he ran farther than John (did)).
  

  
  These are still both comparative, technically.
  
  If you really need to get down to the nitty-gritty, "further" and "farther" are both comparatives of "far", and though they are sometimes used interchangeably, if you really want to be nitpickingly precise, "farther" relates to separation in physical space, and "further" relates to separation in time, or metaphorical separation; the same applies to the superlatives "further" and "farther".
  

  
  I believe that what the OED meant was that further would be with an unspecified comparison (it flew further, he ran further) whereas farther would be a specific comparison (his plane flew farther than hers, he ran farther than she did). Alternatively it might have meant that the distinction was between comparing clauses or nouns (as with the sì/ulte distinction). Anyway, you say that the distinction is nit-picking, this is certainly true, but, as I said above, whether the distinction even exists to be nit-picked or not is debatable, and even if you agree on that, you may disagree on the exact distinction.
  
  

  
  Well, the lack of accents, aside from a few words...
  
  meleé, macramé
  
  words with the same spelling ftw, syllable stress ftw
  
  AFFect affect
  REFuse refuse
  MInute minute
  

  
  You spelt mêlée wrongly.
  
  Also fiancé(e), café, résumé and naïve.
  
  Also, for me at least, minute and minute have the same stress, just different vowels. The adjective describing something of very small size would be [mainjut] whilst the division of time would be [mɪnɪt] (both with initial stress).
  
  

['Oma Tirea]

{cut for size...}

Actually they're and their isn't a dialect independent merger. In my accent at least, they're has just a hint of a triphthong towards ì before heading towards schwa whereas their and there (which are merged) go straight to schwa.

I'm guessing you merge their with there because you don't merge their with they're, kefyak?

Then, I have fir-fur but not fern merged; marry, merry and Mary all distinct but Mary and merry distinguished by length of the initial vowel; vane-vain-vein merged; tower, tyre and tar are all merged; horse and hoarse are merged; pa, pop and paw don't really exist (well, pa does a tiny bit) in my dialect except as deliberate imitations of certain American ones but would usually be unmerged and lastly father and farther are merged (although I fail to see how any non-rhotic dialect could not have).

Sounds like a very interesting dialect of English for where you are, especially the tower-tire-tar merger.  I thought that merger was mainly in Southern American accents....

I've got everything except the tower-tire-tar merger and father-farther merger.  Fairly common througout GA accents.

Well, the lack of accents, aside from a few words...

meleé, macramé

words with the same spelling ftw, syllable stress ftw

AFFect affect
REFuse refuse
MInute minute

You spelt mêlée wrongly.

Also fiancé(e), café, résumé and naïve.

Also, for me at least, minute and minute have the same stress, just different vowels. The adjective describing something of very small size would be ['maɪ.njut] whilst the division of time would be ['mɪn.ɪ̈t] (both with initial stress).

Sran, lots of French loanwords that have lost their diacritics...

Also, words like amoeba and encyclopaedia has historically lost their ligatures.  They used to be spelled: amœba encyclopædia.  Yet another pet-peeve I share with you, ma Tompa'Ivong.

[Carborundum]

Two common errors that I think bear mentioning are:

1. Confusing "to" and "too" (although I must admit to doing this myself sometimes when I really ought to be sleeping).

And the far more interesting and illogical:

2. Confusing "to" and "and", as in "try and X". I just don't see how this happens.

[Muzer]

I don't like "go" being used modally - go eat vs go and eat.

[Carborundum]

I don't like "go" being used modally - go eat vs go and eat.

But go and eat means something different; to go and eat at the same time.

[Muzer]

I think there is an implied "then": I will go and [then I will] eat.

[wm.annis]

I asked you a question, wth did you just say, I axed you a question

This variation is very old.  All the way back to Old English the form varied between ask- (spelled "asc-") and aks- or even ahs-.

[Kìte'eyä Aungia]

This variation is very old.  All the way back to Old English the form varied between ask- (spelled "asc-") and aks- or even ahs-.

I remember reading that at some point in recent history the /aks/ pronunciation was actually on the rise. Not sure if this is still true today.

['Oma Tirea]

All of the above reminds me of what the English language is:

A language on drugs refusing to admit it.  In addition, it has been accused of "harassing" other languages, so it can be quite difficult to tell from the language alone whether or not a word is French, Latin, Germanic, Greek, other international origin, or even just a plain old, native Ænglisc word.  Perhaps it's a lot easier to tell with something like Spanish....

[Payoang]

Dam dam dam. I hate it when people confuse there homonyms; they aught to now better. People seam to stumble through a days of confusing grammar, and although jinn, ails and other alcoholic bruise can affect they're spelling, everyone should be able to due simple sentence construction. To air is human, I suppose, butt I greave the advancement of pore well-constructed sentences by the masses. Sometimes I just wont to beet them, weather its faire or naught.

[Kayrìlien]

Dam dam dam. I hate it when people confuse there homonyms; they aught to now better. People seam to stumble through a days of confusing grammar, and although jinn, ails and other alcoholic bruise can affect they're spelling, everyone should be able to due simple sentence construction. To air is human, I suppose, butt I greave the advancement of pore well-constructed sentences by the masses. Sometimes I just wont to beet them, weather its faire or naught.

Eye khaen sea what yew did they're, Payoang!

Kighrilleeuhn

[Nyx]

AARGH! It hurts me! It physically hurts me! (or.. "my eyes literally exploded!" *sigh*)

Oh and I was reminded of this last night, how would you pronounce ghoti?