English language pet peeves

Started by Muzer, July 22, 2010, 07:58:00 AM

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Payä Tìrol

Fish. Although, to be fair, it's not possible to pronounce it that way. Most of those sounds (especially -ough) are word specific :P
Oeyä atanìl mì sìvawm, mipa tìreyä tìsìlpeyur yat terìng

Kayrìlien

Quote from: Nyx on July 29, 2010, 07:03:43 AM
Oh and I was reminded of this last night, how would you pronounce ghoti? :P

Like a small pointy beard.  ;)

Then again, if you're a James Joyce fan (I'm sure this is what Payä Tirol is talking about), and you pronounce GH as in the word "laugh", O as in the word "women", and TI as in the word "nation", then that's exactly what you get. Fish.

Gee aitch oh tea eye smells fish.

Kayrìlien

Taronyu


Dreamlight

Quote from: Payoang on July 29, 2010, 01:05:44 AM
Dam dam dam. I hate it when people confuse there homonyms; they aught to now better. People seam to stumble through a days of confusing grammar, and although jinn, ails and other alcoholic bruise can affect they're spelling, everyone should be able to due simple sentence construction. To air is human, I suppose, butt I greave the advancement of pore well-constructed sentences by the masses. Sometimes I just wont to beet them, weather its faire or naught.

Karma cookie issued.  :D
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Nyx

Quote from: Kayrìlien on July 29, 2010, 10:25:28 AM
Then again, if you're a James Joyce fan (I'm sure this is what Payä Tirol is talking about), and you pronounce GH as in the word "laugh", O as in the word "women", and TI as in the word "nation", then that's exactly what you get. Fish.
That is what I meant, yes, but as Payä Tìrol already pointed out, it's silly :P

'Oma Tirea

Quote from: Kayrìlien on July 29, 2010, 10:25:28 AM
Quote from: Nyx on July 29, 2010, 07:03:43 AM
Oh and I was reminded of this last night, how would you pronounce ghoti? :P

Like a small pointy beard.  ;)


<ghoti>: {fɒ.tə} ;)

Maybe there are some 8 different ways to pronunce "ghoti" ::)
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Tsäroltxe te Eyrutì Tantse'itan

Ahh! That word hurts my brain hrh.

I get annoyed when people use double-negatives.  "I don't got none of that."


Eyamsiyu

Here's another one:

Pneumonoultramicroscopicsilicovolcanoconiosis.

They should make that word non-existent...


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Tsäroltxe te Eyrutì Tantse'itan

They should, imagine the pour child who has to spell that word


Nyx

Quote from: Eyamsiyu on July 29, 2010, 09:43:31 PM
Here's another one:

Pneumonoultramicroscopicsilicovolcanoconiosis.

They should make that word non-existent...
Hmm.. anyone up for a game of hangman? :P

Tsäroltxe te Eyrutì Tantse'itan

Quote from: Nyx on August 01, 2010, 04:50:25 PM
Quote from: Eyamsiyu on July 29, 2010, 09:43:31 PM
Here's another one:

Pneumonoultramicroscopicsilicovolcanoconiosis.

They should make that word non-existent...
Hmm.. anyone up for a game of hangman? :P
Sure! I'm ready haha  :D


Lance R. Casey

Quote from: ln.sxkxawng on July 29, 2010, 07:59:09 PM
Quote from: Kayrìlien on July 29, 2010, 10:25:28 AM
Quote from: Nyx on July 29, 2010, 07:03:43 AM
Oh and I was reminded of this last night, how would you pronounce ghoti? :P
Like a small pointy beard.  ;)
<ghoti>: {fɒ.tə} ;)

Maybe there are some 8 different ways to pronunce "ghoti" ::)
Taking this to its logical limit, we get the following pronunciation: [ ]
('gh' as in "night", 'o' as in "people", 't' as in "bouquet" and 'i' as in "business")

And, of course, the Klingon word for fish is ghotI' [ɣoˈtͪɪʔ]... ;D

Returning to the original topic, since others have already brought up the deplorably great need for Bob's Unwelcome Education, I'll go ahead and quote Dr. Nick:

"Inflammable means flammable? What a country!"

// Lance R. Casey

'Oma Tirea

Ough hough RUFF doughes DHIS English Language haugh tough be? :-\

Not rilly all dhat ruff, I wud say.  In fact, letters can be cut out uv dhe equacion, and udher respellings simply look rite, kefyak? ;)

Wun must be optimmistic summtimes about dhe English Language :)

BDW, whut percentage uv dhis text looks readable to you?  Because it almoste seems to be much more fonettically accurate alreddy :)

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MIPP

#53
Ok, so you are saying that English is ambiguous and there are many mistakes?
Then you should learn Portuguese and you'd see what is ambiguous, mistakes and hard stuff.
That said, I will tell you some things that are really hard, sometimes stupid, in Portuguese and also some mistakes.

Pronouns
We, as in English, have a pronoun for he and she. It is Ele and Ela, respectively. We have no pronoun for things, like you have "it".
We also have male and female for they. It's Eles (male) and Elas (female).

Articles
English does not uses articles many times, and when uses, you have a/the (I won't talk about the demonstratives, yet).
In Portuguese, we have for the: O (the, but male and singular); A (the, but female and singular); Os (the, but male and plural); As (the, but female and plural).
For a, we have: Um (a, but male and singular); Uma (a, but female and singular); Uns (a, but male and plural); Umas (a, but female and plural).

About the demonstratives, you have this, that, these and those.
We have: Este (this, male and singular);
Esta (this, femal and singulare);
Estes (these, male and plural);
Estas (these, female and plural);
Esse (that, male and singular);
Essa (that, female and singular);
Aquele(that, male  and singular [I can't explain the difference between esse and aquele]);
Aquela (that, female  and singular [again, I can't explain);
Esses (those, male and plural);
Essas (those, female and plural);
Aqueles (those, male and plural [no explanations]);
Aquelas (those, female and plural [do I have to say it again?]).

But, also interesting, we can use these as pronouns. You, have to say "this one; that one". We just say: "Este; Aquela". If using them as a pronoun, we have another one: isto (this, male and singular [only used for things]); isso (that, male and singular [only used for things].

Verbs

We have 4 types of verbs, depending on its end.
The verbs may finish in -ar; -er; -ir; -or. Depending on which end the verb has, it will be conjugated in a different way. In Portuguese, you conjugate verbs by tense and person.
Some examples:

Amar (to love)

Present

Eu amo (I love)
Tu amas (You love)
Ele/Ela ama (He/She loves)
Nós amamos (We love)
Vós amais (You love)
Eles/Elas amam (They love)

As you can see, we dropped the infinitive marker of the verb and we added terminations.

Future

Eu amarei
Tu amarás
Ele/Ela amará
Nós amaremos
Vós amareis
Eles/Elas amarão

Here, we have all the verb and we add terminations.

Past

Eu amei
Tu amaste
Ele/Ela amou
Nós amamos
Vós amasteis
Eles/Elas amaram

Here, I don't know if we have all the verb or we dropped the infinitive marker. It is ambiguous.

Used to (I don't know how do you call to this tense. We call it "Pretérito Imperfeito")

Eu amava
Tu amavas
Ele/Ela amava
Nós amavamos
Vós amavas
Eles/Elas amavam

Had + Participle (E.g. I had left) - I don't know how do you call to it, we call it "Pretérito Mais-que-perfeito"

Eu amara
Tu amaras
Ele amara
Nós amaramos
Vós amareis
Eles amaram

Conditional

Eu amaria
Tu amarias
Ele amaria
Nós amaríamos
Vós amaríeis
Eles amariam

Aprender (to learn)

Present

Eu aprendo
Tu aprendes
Ele/Ela aprende
Nós apendemos
Vós aprendeis
Eles aprendem

Rir (to laugh)

Present

Eu rio
Tu ris
Ele ri
Nós rimos
Vós rides
Eles riem

Verbs that end in -or, I think they are all irregulares.
Note: I used only Ele and only Eles as we conjugate in the same way in the feminine.
Note: In the other verbs, with -er and -ir, I only wrote in the present as I am too tired :P

And, in each type of verb, you'll find some verbs that are irregulars and are conjugated in another way.

Spelling

Now, examples of wrong pronunciation that happen many times.

Entre [ẽtɾɨ] (between) - In Portuguese, many people pronounce [ẽ] as [ẽj]. It is wrong, sometimes.
Bem [bẽj] (well) - Here, [ẽj] is correct.
Não [nãw̃] (negative; no or don't) - usually, when Não is alone, people pronounce it correctly. But when they're negating something, ɾɛthey don't. E.g. Eu não quero pão [Ew nãw̃ kɛɾɛɾu pãw̃. People tend to say Não as n~u (I can't tip ~ above the u). Actually, almost de same happens with Pão and almost every word finished in ão: They say põ, and in other words they, instead of [ãw̃] say [õ]. Btw, the meaning of the sentence is "I don't want bread".
Então [ẽtãw̃] (so) - People say, sometimes: atõ  ;D
Changing consonants - I also see very often people saying an r before another consonant. E.g. lepra [lɛpɾɐ] (means leprosy), people say: [lɛɾpɐ]

We have the same letter with many sounds:
a > a; ɐ
á > a
à > a
â > ɐ
b > b
c > k; s (only if it is before a "e" or "i")
ç > s
ch > ʃ
d > d
e > e; ɛ; ɨ; i
é > ɛ
è > ɛ
ê > e
f > f
g > g; ʒ (only if it is before a "e" or "i")
h > NO SOUND
i > i
í > i
ì > i
j > ʒ
k > k
l > l
lh > ʎ
m > m; ~ (I mean that an M after a vowel sometimes makes it a nasal one)
n > n; ~ (I mean that an N after a vowel sometimes makes it a nasal one)
nh > ɲ
o > o; ɔ
ó > ɔ
ò > ɔ
ô > o
p > p
q > k
r > ɾ; ʁ
s > z; s; ʃ ;(and sometimes, but very rarely, ʒ)
t > t
u > u (or no sound, it deppends)
ú > u
ù > u
v > v
w > u
x > ʃ
y > i
z > z

We (still) have consonants that are not read. E.g.

Correcção (correction) [kuʁɛʁɛsãw̃] - In the Portuguese from Portugal, it happens a lot. Now it will change, with the new agreement of the language.

So, I guess I can say that English is quite easy to learn, indeed. And the ambiguities, aren't that big. Portuguese has many, also.


EDIT: I remembered now of a mistake in the grammar, really big. When we want to say to a person: Do nothing!, we say: "Não faças nada." [Nãw̃ fasɐɐʃ nadɐ]. It literally means: Don't do nothing. SO, basically, we are asking to a person to don't do nothing. That said, it means that if we don't want the person to do nothing, she has to do something. But, what we really wanted to say is: Do nothing!

Another one: Não digas nada [Nãw̃ digɐʃ nadɐ]. Lit: Don't say nothing. So, if we ask the person to don't say nothing, she has to speak, but what we actually wanted was the person to be quiet.
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Nyx

Ma MIPP, some of that looks like stuff teachers would love tricking people with on tests :P

Quote from: 'Oma Tirea on September 08, 2010, 12:19:04 AM
Ough hough RUFF doughes DHIS English Language haugh tough be? :-\

Not rilly all dhat ruff, I wud say.  In fact, letters can be cut out uv dhe equacion, and udher respellings simply look rite, kefyak? ;)

Wun must be optimmistic summtimes about dhe English Language :)

BDW, whut percentage uv dhis text looks readable to you?  Because it almoste seems to be much more fonettically accurate alreddy :)
Readable yes, but it looks like lolspeak, which is not a positive thing.


MIPP

Quote from: Nyx on September 08, 2010, 06:50:52 AM
Ma MIPP, some of that looks like stuff teachers would love tricking people with on tests :P

Quote from: 'Oma Tirea on September 08, 2010, 12:19:04 AM
Ough hough RUFF doughes DHIS English Language haugh tough be? :-\

Not rilly all dhat ruff, I wud say.  In fact, letters can be cut out uv dhe equacion, and udher respellings simply look rite, kefyak? ;)

Wun must be optimmistic summtimes about dhe English Language :)

BDW, whut percentage uv dhis text looks readable to you?  Because it almoste seems to be much more fonettically accurate alreddy :)
Readable yes, but it looks like lolspeak, which is not a positive thing.



Hum... sometimes.

P.s. POST EDITED > added some other sounds and another example.
Na'vi for beginners | Dict-Na'vi.com

Hufwe lìng io pay, nìfnu slä nìlaw.
Loveless, Act IV.

'Oma Tirea

Quote from: Nyx on September 08, 2010, 06:50:52 AM
Quote from: 'Oma Tirea on September 08, 2010, 12:19:04 AM
Ough hough RUFF doughes DHIS English Language haugh tough be? :-\

Not rilly all dhat ruff, I wud say.  In fact, letters can be cut out uv dhe equacion, and udher respellings simply look rite, kefyak? ;)

Wun must be optimmistic summtimes about dhe English Language :)

BDW, whut percentage uv dhis text looks readable to you?  Because it almoste seems to be much more fonettically accurate alreddy :)
Readable yes, but it looks like lolspeak, which is not a positive thing.




Isn't that the other problem? ::) things like internet chat and LOLSpeak as well as "ad-spelling" are actually more consistent with the phonetics we have today.
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Nyx

Haha, indeed. And isn't that sad?

I don't know, I kinda like the correct spelling even though it's really inconsistent. But I guess that could just be because I'm used to it. Oh, for those of you who know this stuff, how much of the spelling in English is actually there for etymological reasons (or something similar)? I mean, it can't all just be random.

abi

Quote from: Nyx on September 08, 2010, 06:16:00 PM
how much of the spelling in English is actually there for etymological reasons (or something similar)? I mean, it can't all just be random.

Much more than you'd think, although there are some spellings that were "made up" and somehow made it into the mainstream, for example the word "debt" had a b inserted into it when one wasn't needed.

Dreamlight

Quote from: abi on September 08, 2010, 11:23:42 PM
Quote from: Nyx on September 08, 2010, 06:16:00 PM
how much of the spelling in English is actually there for etymological reasons (or something similar)? I mean, it can't all just be random.

Much more than you'd think, although there are some spellings that were "made up" and somehow made it into the mainstream, for example the word "debt" had a b inserted into it when one wasn't needed.

Also the language has undergone a number of soundshifts from Middle English through early Modern English, with most of the old spellings retained.
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