Author Topic: How difficult do you find na'vi?  (Read 2266 times)

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Offline GEOvanne

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How difficult do you find na'vi?
« on: December 01, 2011, 12:23:38 am »
How difficult do you consider your experience of learning na'vi to any other language you learned/learning?



For me its the most difficult one. Hawaiian is right behind it, and interestingly, na'vi was made with a polynesian taste.

Offline Kamean

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Re: How difficult do you find na'vi?
« Reply #1 on: December 01, 2011, 01:26:27 pm »
In my opinion, is a simple language. At least, I study it easily enough. :)
Tse'a ngal ke'ut a krr fra'uti kame.


Offline 'Oma Tirea

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Re: How difficult do you find na'vi?
« Reply #2 on: December 02, 2011, 12:19:01 am »
interestingly, na'vi was made with a polynesian taste.

Originally that was the case.  The language was later designed to avoid an exclusively polynesian feel (the language tries to remain neutral amid all 'Rrtan languages).

Anyway, BTT:  Considering I became proficient (although not necesarily fluent) in the language in less than a year, I would say I learned it quite easily.  It was also simpler a couple of years ago.

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Offline Plumps

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Re: How difficult do you find na'vi?
« Reply #3 on: December 03, 2011, 10:12:24 am »
Anyway, BTT:  Considering I became proficient (although not necesarily fluent) in the language in less than a year, I would say I learned it quite easily.  It was also simpler a couple of years ago.

;D It’s only going to be two ;D Even in Na’vi that’s only a prefix :P


I think it depends on how much devotion you have. In the beginning, I found it very difficult because of unfamiliar sounds. Words I wouldn’t put in the same category now seemed to blend together because of almost similar sounds then.

I think I had the most difficulties with the pronouns… It took me a while to grasp inclusivity. But other than that, I think, Na’vi is fairly easy to learn … as far as our sound knowledge of the language goes, that is ;)

Offline Irtaviš Ačankif

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Re: How difficult do you find na'vi?
« Reply #4 on: December 03, 2011, 01:24:21 pm »
Not too difficult. I've been learning since July and already I speak it better than I speak Spanish, which I learned for two years  ;D

Na'vi is an extremely modular language, so the grammar rules are very well structured and there are no irregular verbs etc. Therefore, my tip is to first learn one of each category (like memorize, one verb, one noun, one adverb, one adposition, you, and me). I started with yom, teylu, nìkeftxo, ne, nga, and oe. Then go on with the grammar, and once you learn it (I recommend Na'vi in a Nutshell) make all kinds of sentences with your words:

Oe-l nga-ti yom. (I eat you, lit Isubject youd. object eat) [the bars and brackets are for dissecting sentences; don't write with them unless you are picking at your own grammar]

Oe-ru nga-l yom teylu-t. (You eat teylu for me, lit. Iind. object yousubject eat teylud. object)

Oe-yä teylu-ti nga-l y<am>om nìkeftxo. (You ate my teylu sadly.)

You get it. Then, try saying stuff in Na'vi with other words. Learn on your way as you say stuff, like if I want to say, "I ate teylu on my banshee" and you don't know "banshee" and "on", look them up. Then you make your sentence: "Oe-l y<am>om teylu-t mì oe-yä ikran."
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Re: How difficult do you find na'vi?
« Reply #5 on: December 03, 2011, 10:03:21 pm »
After month three, my effort to learn it skydived, but I yet know most rules and could hold a written conversation given the dictionary within reach. It's not that the language is boring, but that's how my "addictions" work, at some point it fades quick.

It's simple and logical with few irregularities. And as norwegian has almost all the wovels and the r, pronounciation was simple enough, but I know noone that I could converse with IRL, so I have no practice in it.

Offline Tsmuktengan

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Re: How difficult do you find na'vi?
« Reply #6 on: December 04, 2011, 03:37:11 am »
After month three, my effort to learn it skydived, but I yet know most rules and could hold a written conversation given the dictionary within reach. It's not that the language is boring, but that's how my "addictions" work, at some point it fades quick.

Well, the thing is that it is harder to learn and to integrate Na'vi without practicing with other people, like any other language. This is the difficulty I encounter, as I usually need constant practice to integrate things... and I do not really practice enough Na'vi...


Offline Plumps

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Re: How difficult do you find na'vi?
« Reply #7 on: December 04, 2011, 07:47:02 am »
Oe-ru nga-l yom teylu-t. (You eat teylu for me, lit. Iind. object yousubject eat teylud. object)

Actually, that makes no sense as far as I know. Most of the time the dative is translated as 'to me/you' etc. in English ;)

Offline Nyx

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Re: How difficult do you find na'vi?
« Reply #8 on: December 04, 2011, 08:16:10 am »
Oe-ru nga-l yom teylu-t. (You eat teylu for me, lit. Iind. object yousubject eat teylud. object)

Actually, that makes no sense as far as I know. Most of the time the dative is translated as 'to me/you' etc. in English ;)
Hehe, it makes me think "hey, I can't eat but I need the nourishment, could you eat this for me?". That's just the situation it makes me think of, I'm not trying to make fun of this.

Anyway, I thought Na'vi was pretty simple to learn, especially when there were so few words, I have to admit I've had trouble keeping up with the last couple of updates (but that could also be because I have to focus on school). It's pretty straight forward with everything and easy to get a feel for. I just really need to get back to using it for chatting :)

Offline Plumps

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Re: How difficult do you find na'vi?
« Reply #9 on: December 04, 2011, 08:26:14 am »
I think it is time to revive a TS nìNa'vi round :)

Offline Ftxavanga Txe′lan

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Re: How difficult do you find na'vi?
« Reply #10 on: December 10, 2011, 02:55:20 pm »
I would say I find Na'vi easier than French and German, for sure. :) As far as Quenya goes, I think I'd put them pretty much on the same level. And this is not only because they both lack vocabulary and grammar concepts! In fact, mostly I consider them similarly difficult because the languages in themselves are not exceptionally complex and arduous to learn. :)  

Offline Ningey

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Re: How difficult do you find na'vi?
« Reply #11 on: January 20, 2012, 06:26:27 pm »
Actually, the most difficult part for me has been to get it going in the first place. Since my mind easily turns into utter chaos, I needed to get things past that first, but once that succeeded, things started to work out just fine. Despite the free word order and that transitive verbs are handled slightly differently I consider the grammar to be a lot easier than that of any other language I know so far - you have by far fewer exceptions whereas in other languages you could even experience exceptions from the exceptions, which really doesn't make the job easier...

In fact, starting on Na'vi actually had an interesting side effect: It helped me get unstuck with French (which has been thoroughly screwed up in school) and reset it to a defined state.


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Offline `Eylan Ayfalulukanä

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Re: How difficult do you find na'vi?
« Reply #12 on: January 20, 2012, 09:14:24 pm »
I have never really learned another language up until Na'vi appeared on the scene. I learned some Biblical Greek and Hebrew about 20 years ago, just enough to make effective use of original language Bible study tools. Despite the fact I really love Hebrew, it was the Greek that has stuck with me.

I never imagined I would just 'snap' start learning a new language on February 18, 2010. But when I read the front page of this site, words something to the effect, 'You, too can learn this beautiful language', I took a look around. Only about 500 words at that time, and a language structure that made sense (which it wouldn't have, if I had never studied Greek and Hebrew). So, I dived right in, and have never looked back. For me, the learning has gone more slowly than I would like, as I have to multiplex learning time in with many other activities. Not having anyone locally who is as enthusiastic about learning Na'vi has not helped, either.

But since Na'vi was the first language I have really tried to learn, I had nothing to compare it to, until Dothraki came along. I remember Dothraki appearing sometime in the fall of 2010, then being championed by Taronyu, A.K.A. Skxawng Makto. I remember looking over that list of about 100 words, and seeing that hrakkar 'white lion' was among that short list of words. To me, any language that had a term for 'white lion' among its first 100 words was worth learning more about. (I quickly learned that hrakkar was actually among the 30 seminal words the author George R.R. Martin had created for the original story!) Although Dothraki had a short vocabulary, it has grown unusually quickly because its creator, David Peterson really likes creating words, something rare even among conlangers.

Dothraki was also interesting in that in a lot of ways, it was the 'opposite' of Na'vi, and complimented learning Na'vi. Again, without the experience of having first learned Na'vi to a somewhat functional level, I could have never learned Dothraki. Dothraki is considerably more difficult to learn, as it has 'built-in' irregular forms right from the get-go. It has a structure that is very different from anything I had learned up to that point. I have made it a goal to thoroughly learn Dothraki after befriending David Peterson last summer. David is personally 'teaching' a small group of us (only about 7 active people worldwide) the ins and outs of Dothraki, and creating some fun exercises along the way. (You can join us at http://www.dothraki.com) The community also have an IRC chat together every Monday evening.

So, to answer the question, I think Na'vi is fairly easy to learn. It is fairly systematic and predictable. Even the unusual parts are fairly systematic. For me, the biggest challenge (besides having opportunities to use the language) has been the more advanced grammar and syntax. But, I am working on correcting that shortcoming, with the long-term goal of becoming a Na'vi Tsulfätu.

Yawey ngahu!
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Offline Tirea Aean

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Re: How difficult do you find na'vi?
« Reply #13 on: January 20, 2012, 09:31:06 pm »
IMO Na'vi is very simple and logical.  Very few abnormalities or exceptions. A pandoran ton easier than any earth language I have ever tried to learn.

kelku ikranä a hawnventi yom podcast (na'vi-only): https://tirearadio.com/podcast
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Offline Irtaviš Ačankif

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Re: How difficult do you find na'vi?
« Reply #14 on: January 20, 2012, 09:40:49 pm »
Haha yes.

My first time on LN was in December 2009. I was 10 years old then, and after watching Avatar I heard that the language wasn't gibberish like the SW languages. Then I went on LN took (the site had a horrendous layout back then) and I thought, oh well, these fans must be crazy and went back to being a Star Wars Fan.  ;) I really hoped I had started learning back then. However, Na'vi back then was a big mess of confusion from Cameron and the ASG plus mostly wrong dissecting of "canon" sentences spoken by Frommer (it was before Frommer's list came out). You can check out how a mess Na'vi used to be in this old version of Wikipedia: http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Na%27vi_language&oldid=331811464

I first started learning Na'vi in July 2011. Before that the only conlang I knew a bit about was Esperanto, and it sounded extremely Indo-European (like all those latinate words and the grammar). In July I dug up my old Avatar bluray and watched it. I was amazed at how ALIEN the language sounded like. Mostly it was the syllabic rr and ll that sounded weird. (the ejectives didn't sound weird since the actors flopped them anyway). I remembered that crazy site I saw when I was 10 years old and then started learning super fast. My approach was first to learn as much grammar as possible. Then I'd try to make sentences, looking up the dictionary for the words. Ulte set oe new pivlltxe nìNa'vi nìltsan nì'it. Oeyä lì'fya leNa'vi to oeyä lì'fya leSpanish (alu 'u a oe namumänge krr a pxezìsìt) lu sìltsan.
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Re: How difficult do you find na'vi?
« Reply #15 on: January 20, 2012, 09:46:03 pm »
Wou! I had no idea that you were around before my time. Thanks for that link. It brings back a few memories I had of when i started. So much we didnt know then that we do now.

kelku ikranä a hawnventi yom podcast (na'vi-only): https://tirearadio.com/podcast
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Offline Irtaviš Ačankif

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Re: How difficult do you find na'vi?
« Reply #16 on: January 20, 2012, 09:47:51 pm »
I didn't register for an account then though. Lu keftxo. Keftxo nìtxan nì'aw.  :P
Previously Ithisa Kīranem, Uniltìrantokx te Skxawng.

Name from my Sakaš conlang, from Sakasul Ältäbisäl Acarankïp

"First name" is Ačankif, not Eltabiš! In Na'vi, Atsankip.

Offline Tirea Aean

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Re: How difficult do you find na'vi?
« Reply #17 on: January 20, 2012, 09:52:20 pm »
Either way, Na'vi is easy.

Chinese to me is difficult. Everything from the writing system to tonality and culture is hard for me to grasp since I'm so rooted into how US English works. Na'vi is alien but still for some reason is not hard for me. And I have a passion for it.

I can only imagine how hard English is to anyone non-native. Such horrific spelling inconsistencies and exceptions to rules, sometimes nested exceptions. O.o

kelku ikranä a hawnventi yom podcast (na'vi-only): https://tirearadio.com/podcast
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Offline Ningey

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Re: How difficult do you find na'vi?
« Reply #18 on: January 20, 2012, 11:39:35 pm »
Either way, Na'vi is easy.

Chinese to me is difficult. Everything from the writing system to tonality and culture is hard for me to grasp since I'm so rooted into how US English works. Na'vi is alien but still for some reason is not hard for me. And I have a passion for it.

I can only imagine how hard English is to anyone non-native. Such horrific spelling inconsistencies and exceptions to rules, sometimes nested exceptions. O.o

Seriously, I didn't think that English were that difficult when I picked up learning it back in school (the only difficulty I'm still experiencing is that I haven't completely figured out yet when I need to put a comma and when not).
I, for my part, had considered German to be worse, although there aren't that many exceptions (but, alas, the reformation of the German orthography some years ago has made things a mess, I fear). Just give German verb conjugation and noun declension a try - if you aren't used to it, there's quite some chance for errors there (not to mention how the verb starts to jump about in sentences depending on several factors: Type of clause, is it a normal sentence or a question, etc. pp., plus that occasionally you have more than one way of getting things done).

But with Na'vi, intuition actually helps a great deal. With many languages on 'Rrta, you are just out of luck in this matter.


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Offline Irtaviš Ačankif

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Re: How difficult do you find na'vi?
« Reply #19 on: January 21, 2012, 01:39:01 am »
Either way, Na'vi is easy.

Chinese to me is difficult. Everything from the writing system to tonality and culture is hard for me to grasp since I'm so rooted into how US English works. Na'vi is alien but still for some reason is not hard for me. And I have a passion for it.

I can only imagine how hard English is to anyone non-native. Such horrific spelling inconsistencies and exceptions to rules, sometimes nested exceptions. O.o
My eleven-year-old friend has a dictionary-length book on all of the exceptions and nooks and crannies of English pronunciation. He insists that with his book he has no use for IPA annotations in dictionaries. But he still mispronounce words sometimes, such as "southern" as "south-urn". He says that that is what the rules in his huge book says.

Chinese is a TOTAL LINGUISTIC MESS. Pronunciation is a mess too - even standard Mandarin has lots of allophony that is not discussed in Wiki &c, such as [w~v], [ʃ~ʂ], [ʒ~ʐ~ɻ] and [x~h~χ]. Grammar is messy at best. Both 你吃了没有, 你吃了吗,你吃没,吃没 mean exactly the same thing (have you eaten). Literally they are "You have eat yes no?", "You have eat q?", "You eat no?", "eat no?". Chinese also does not have any tense, it only has aspect expressed 100% using helping words equivalent to English "have" and "had." Good thing though is that you never conjugate verbs or change noun cases - everything is done with particles!

Despite the fact I'm Chinese and I speak Chinese all day long, it is my least favorite language.
Previously Ithisa Kīranem, Uniltìrantokx te Skxawng.

Name from my Sakaš conlang, from Sakasul Ältäbisäl Acarankïp

"First name" is Ačankif, not Eltabiš! In Na'vi, Atsankip.

 

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