IPA question

Started by Plumps, January 25, 2012, 06:14:42 AM

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Plumps

Ma sulfätu tìftiä lì'fyayä ;)

the project dict-navi.com has been revived and we try to 1) correct the mistakes that are in the dictionary so far, 2) to add new features (including more languages etc.)

Now, concerning IPA. I now there was quite a discussion back in the days when Taronyu single-handedly added the words to the lexicon and inserted the IPA, but I didn't want to dig that up.

I noticed that for ll and rr there are different approaches. The Wiki uses {l̩ː} and {r̩ː}, the Dictionary only {l̩} and {r̩} ... which one is correct?

Also, on the phonetics' page ts is given as {c} whereas the Wiki uses {ʦ} and the Dictionary even {ts} with an arch over it. Again, which one is correct?

Tirea Aean

#1
[l̩ː] and [r̩ː] mean "long syllabic lateral approximate" and "long syllabic alveolar trill" respectively. ː means long. tiny line under the symbol means syllabic.

without ː, it's just normal and not necessarily long. IMO the syllabic line is important.

[c] is definitely not correct because that is a palatal plosive.

ts with a tie bar for extra clarity is what we are going for in the dictionary. I believe both with/without tie bar are correct and essentially are the same.

For consistency, Let's use what's in the current dictionary pdf. ;)

Lance R. Casey

Quote from: Plumps on January 25, 2012, 06:14:42 AM
I noticed that for ll and rr there are different approaches. The Wiki uses {l̩ː} and {r̩ː}, the Dictionary only {l̩} and {r̩} ... which one is correct?
In the beginning Frommer wrote regarding pseudovowels: "When they are syllabic they are lengthened (the r is very strongly trilled, the l always front and 'light') and written ll and rr respectively." Thus the first notation is more precise.

Quote from: Plumps on January 25, 2012, 06:14:42 AM
Also, on the phonetics' page ts is given as {c} whereas the Wiki uses {ʦ} and the Dictionary even {ts} with an arch over it. Again, which one is correct?
[c] denotes a voiceless palatal stop, which is nowhere near /ts/. However, it is sometimes used in lieu of [t͡ʃ], even though this sidesteps the definition. The "arch" (tie bar, slur) is properly included to show that the two sounds should be taken as a single unit (affricate), but it is fairly often left out for technical reasons. The ligature (ʦ) is equivalent to [t͡s], but represents an obsolete notation. So, [t͡s] it is.

// Lance R. Casey

Tirea Aean

shall we then include "long sign" on all ll and rr in the dictionary to reflect that?

'Oma Tirea

TEMO, the ː isn't necessary.

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