anybody studying/studied Sanskrit?

Started by Kì'eyawn, September 20, 2010, 01:04:26 PM

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Kì'eyawn

If i could learn any human language, i would love to learn Sanskrit.  They had it at the school where i did my bachelor's degree, and now i'm kicking myself that i didn't take it when i had the chance.  Now i'm doing my master's at a school with a terribly impoverished foreign language program—and i'm graduating in December, anyway.  I'm applying for another master's program, but i've not looked if the schools i'm applying to have Sanskrit.  And, even if they did, i don't know that i'll have time for it, as the programs i'm looking at are only a year long, and promise to keep me pretty busy.  I'd like to do some sort of do-it-yourself thing, but everything i've come across has gotten very mixed reviews.

So, anybody here tried their hand at Sanskrit?  Got any advice?
eo Eywa oe 'ia

Fra'uri tìyawnur oe täpivìng nìwotx...

wm.annis

#1
Lo, those many years ago, I did take a few years of Sanskrit, with this guy, which meant I read more Hindu law texts in Sanskrit than I had planned on.

There are for the beginner and especially the autodidact a number of hurdles to overcome to study this language.  They are not insurmountable by any means, but we might as well be honest about them from the start.

First, Sanskrit is hard.  I think ancient Greek is a reasonably straightforward language, and Latin a breeze.  Sanskrit is not.  It's not as bad as, say, Navajo or Old Irish — *shudder* — but there's a lot of grammar to learn.

Second, most instructional material assumes you have an instructor (ignore the Teach Yourself Sanskrit book which is written for linguistic geniuses).

Third, there are conventions in the writing system which are serious learning load, too.  Every consonant in one of the Brahmi derived alphabets has an inherent short a vowel.  If you want to write a word with two consonants right next to each other, the two consonant letters have a handwriting car wreck and get merged together.  Sometimes these mergings (ligatures) are obvious, but plenty have to be memorized.  Add to that Sanskrit's complex syllable structure, and you can get three and four consonant pile-ups.

Fourth, Sanskrit was surprisingly attentive to the ways people actually speak sentences.  In particular, it took note of the ways sounds at word boundaries changed — and wrote them out.  This is called sandhi — a Sanskrit term — even in modern linguistics.

Finally on the writing system, even though devanagari is usually taught to Westerners, pretty much anyone writing Sanskrit in India will use the local alphabet.  The Clay Sanskrit Library just gave up, and printed their Sanskrit in romanized form.  This is the only literary language I can think of where this practice is remotely justifiable.

Here are book recommendations I gave a few years ago on a classics board: Sanskrit Recommendations?.

Kì'eyawn

Tewti, ma William.  Irayo for the thorough reply.

Yeah, i've taken a peek at Devanagari—and i confess, it scares me.  Not the abugida part, but that consonantal train wreck you described.  I've never (formally) studied a language with a different alphabet—although i toyed with Elvish in high school, and had a kooky History professor who required us to transliterate Greek words to and from the Greek alphabet on tests (she felt it was a fundamental part of being an educated human being—sure, why not).

I'm interested in being able to read Hindu religious texts and commentaries.  A lot of concepts in the Sanskrit vocabulary (and, i'm told, the grammar) are immensely difficult to unpack and translate effectively—then add to that most texts dealing with Sanskrit seem to be in German.  Actually, i remember looking at a university that did have Sanskrit—as a major, no less!  But to major in Sanskrit, you had to achieve fluency in German or French, as your final exams would be in one of those two.  I never did get precisely why that was...

Like i said, i'm kicking myself now for not studying it when i was at a school that offered it, and would have had the time.  I'll take a look at the stuff you recommended.  Irayo nìmun.
eo Eywa oe 'ia

Fra'uri tìyawnur oe täpivìng nìwotx...

wm.annis

Quote from: Kì'eyawn on September 20, 2010, 07:45:15 PMI'm interested in being able to read Hindu religious texts and commentaries.  A lot of concepts in the Sanskrit vocabulary (and, i'm told, the grammar) are immensely difficult to unpack and translate effectively

Well, I always encourage people interested in such things to study the source material in the original language if possible, but I think this idea that it's impossible to "unpack" them in another language is often overblown, Romantic phantasy.  The grammar, especially, is not going to cause this sort of problem, though technical religious and philosophical vocabulary is of course often tricky.

QuoteActually, i remember looking at a university that did have Sanskrit—as a major, no less!  But to major in Sanskrit, you had to achieve fluency in German or French, as your final exams would be in one of those two.  I never did get precisely why that was...

This situation is also in the classics, where the old saying goes that to study the classics it's useful to know Greek and Latin, but vital to know German.  High level scholarship in these areas is an international effort, so it makes sense to require the appropriate modern languages.  I hadn't realized the French were big into Sanskrit.

Kì'eyawn

Quote from: wm.annis on September 20, 2010, 08:11:46 PM
Well, I always encourage people interested in such things to study the source material in the original language if possible, but I think this idea that it's impossible to "unpack" them in another language is often overblown, Romantic phantasy.  The grammar, especially, is not going to cause this sort of problem, though technical religious and philosophical vocabulary is of course often tricky.

I should clarify.  It's not that it's impossible by any means—it's taken a lot of self study, but i like to think i've achieved a fairly nuanced understanding of the some elements of Hindu thought.  But when you ask a translator to render the word karma into a neat and tidy translation for a rendition of the Bhagavad Gita in English verse...  It gets ugly sometimes.

QuoteThis situation is also in the classics, where the old saying goes that to study the classics it's useful to know Greek and Latin, but vital to know German.  High level scholarship in these areas is an international effort, so it makes sense to require the appropriate modern languages.  I hadn't realized the French were big into Sanskrit.

That's brilliant, i'll remember that.  Yeah, your options were French or German—it was the same deal if you wanted to major in Tibetan, i noticed.  Incidentally, justifiably or not, i find Tibetan infinitely more terrifying than Sanskrit—but that's true of the religious philosophy as much as the language, so perhaps the latter is coloring my perception of the former...
eo Eywa oe 'ia

Fra'uri tìyawnur oe täpivìng nìwotx...

wm.annis

Quote from: Kì'eyawn on September 20, 2010, 08:55:36 PMIncidentally, justifiably or not, i find Tibetan infinitely more terrifying than Sanskrit—but that's true of the religious philosophy as much as the language, so perhaps the latter is coloring my perception of the former...

No, no... Tibetan spelling is utterly deranged.  You are right to fear it.

Payoang

Quote from: wm.annis on September 20, 2010, 04:47:00 PM
...

I am utterly discouraged after reading this. Like many other languages, I'm drawn to it through music and thought I had a chance, despite its complexity. Ah well.

Kì'eyawn

Kaltxì nìmun, ma William.  I just wanted to let you know i downloaded copies of all the books you recommended on that other post.  Irayo for the suggestions.  I doubt i'll be dabbling in Sanskrit anytime before January; but when i get to it, i'll know who to harass  :P
eo Eywa oe 'ia

Fra'uri tìyawnur oe täpivìng nìwotx...