Sins against Linguistics in SF/Fantasy

[wm.annis]

I have a few... pet-peeves... regarding how too many SF and Fantasy authors treat language.

First, decorative apostrophes!  It drives me bonkers when apostrophes are shoved into alien words with no apparent meaning.  In real languages, they mean something.

Second, even aliens have to breathe.  When the best an author can come up with for alien names is nonsense like Qkp'tq, they should be punished!  Even if aliens have different manners of articulation, air still needs to flow to get sound.

Perhaps you have other things to gripe about...

[suomichris]

Heh, it's funny that you mention this... I just picked up a book called "Aliens and Linguists," which is a sort of catalog of these ridiculous things.  It does also discuss the good stuff that shows up in sci-fi, but sadly, most of it is just crap :p

Re: your second: It is possible, of course, that aliens wouldn't use a pulmonic airstream mechanism at all.  People who come up with names like Qkp'tq probably haven't thought about this, but some have :p

[ShadowedSin]

Since most alien languages really lack syntax how do we know at all what those apostrophes mean? All we know it means to scream OINK at a precise time while wearing bunny slippers.

[Lurk]

Well, why would they use the roman alphabet if they wanted to change the deffinition of the symbols that much? :/

[Ftiafpi]

Well, why would they use the roman alphabet if they wanted to change the deffinition of the symbols that much? :/

Maybe they do it just cause they know it will drive you guys CRAZYZYZZ!!

(I hate that too...)

[omängum fra'uti]

Whoever came up with the names in the ASG seems to be very guilty of this.  (I wouldn't be surprised if it was Cameron's words from an old screenplay/scriptment, though it may just have been some flunky editor.)  I describe it as "throwing letters at the screen then sneezing apostrophes over them".

[suomichris]

I've tried to resist posting here, since I've just been reading Aliens and Linguists, which is basically a laundry list of such things.  Particularly glaring in there seem to be:

-No language change (a bazillion years pass, but we can still understand each other!)
-Universal translators (don't understand what your alien friends are saying?  Just have them spend a couple of minutes with this gizmo, and you'll understand them perfectly!)  Note that Meyers is rather good about distinguishing between a translator which works from one known language to another (something that seems possible, if not perfect, someday soon) and a machine which, without any input except for a few tens of sentences, becomes a perfect translator.  Unless we're missing something really profound about how language and the universe works, the second is impossible.
-Also, managing to translate a language without any context (dude finds a monolingual tablet, and is able to figure out what it says!)  One notes that even Joseph Smith wasn't this stupid.

[wm.annis]

-Also, managing to translate a language without any context (dude finds a monolingual tablet, and is able to figure out what it says!) 

The Daniel Jackson effect!

Another pet-peeve of mine — why do Elves, or other wise, ancient races always speak languages with lots of liquids and vowels?  Some day I'll write a novel with Elves who speak something with the uvular inventory of, say, Ubykh.

[Tìng Eywatikìte'e]

-Also, managing to translate a language without any context (dude finds a monolingual tablet, and is able to figure out what it says!) 

The Daniel Jackson effect!

Another pet-peeve of mine — why do Elves, or other wise, ancient races always speak languages with lots of liquids and vowels?  Some day I'll write a novel with Elves who speak something with the uvular inventory of, say, Ubykh.

Well this one at least is probably just show us the psychology of the author. Obviously they want the wise race to be elegant and beautiful to humans, and we naturally find liquids and vowels soft and comforting.

[wm.annis]

Obviously they want the wise race to be elegant and beautiful to humans, and we naturally find liquids and vowels soft and comforting.

Do we?

I find [ħ] fairly soft.

[suomichris]

Obviously they want the wise race to be elegant and beautiful to humans, and we naturally find liquids and vowels soft and comforting.

Do we?

I find [ħ] fairly soft.

Ah, yes, but with liquids and vowels, you can have sing-song-y-ness that stretches across a whole word!

The real interesting question here would be to see if this same thing shows up in sci-fi written in other languages--which is to say, do HUMANS seem to think these sounds are "nice" and "pretty," or is it just English speakers (wm excused, of course :p).

[ShadowedSin]

In one of my conlangs I use apostrophes to mark compound words.

[Coyote]

When the best an author can come up with for alien names is nonsense like Qkp'tq, they should be punished!

You haven't met many Serbo-Croatians, have you?    To this day, I am convinced that Laotians snuck in one day and stole all their vowels.

You know what gets old? The double letters. Vowels or consonants, it's the lazyman's way to "write alien". And using "y" instead of an "i". I haven't seen that much, but when it does happen it just looks damn silly. 

[wm.annis]

You haven't met many Serbo-Croatians, have you?    To this day, I am convinced that Laotians snuck in one day and stole all their vowels.

You will perhaps enjoy this: A Concise History of the English Language.

You know what gets old? The double letters. Vowels or consonants, it's the lazyman's way to "write alien".

Honestly, I don't think I've seen that stunt very often.

[jparachoniak]

You will perhaps enjoy this: A Concise History of the English Language.

I feel on the floor laughing that is awesome.

[Mech]

Hmmm another thing is that they use differing English spelling to show a single sound, for example an "alien" name containing both c and k

['Oma Tirea]

Wow...  epic thread, epic resurrection

People who come up with names like Qkp'tq probably haven't thought about this, but some have :p

Heard of Nuxálk?  It was made with plenty of vowel-free words (although a lot of voiceless syllabic fricatives exist, so it is not as bad as the above).

Whoever came up with the names in the ASG seems to be very guilty of this.  (I wouldn't be surprised if it was Cameron's words from an old screenplay/scriptment, though it may just have been some flunky editor.)  I describe it as "throwing letters at the screen then sneezing apostrophes over them".

Sran.  These people need to learn the Na'vi alphabet, phonology, and phonotactics.  Some of these objects don't even mean what they say.

[Tsamsiyu92]

Offtopic: why have you written Sxkawng in your avatar?

[kewnya txamew'itan]

If you read his sig he's added some "non-phonemic" changes such as an ejective s. Personally I think doing so is dangerous as it might mislead newer members, and is not na'vi.

[Tsamsiyu92]

If you read his sig he's added some "non-phonemic" changes such as an ejective s. Personally I think doing so is dangerous as it might mislead newer members, and is not na'vi.

How is an ejective s pronounced? like a louder S?