Author Topic: When Letters Go Missing...  (Read 1095 times)

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Offline Stranger Come Knocking

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When Letters Go Missing...
« on: February 17, 2012, 10:36:08 am »
Hi there.  So, I am taking a World History class and we're studying Ancient Egypt and we're doing a project on hieroglyphics, especially those of Middle Egyptian.  Aside from awful transliterations, we have to make a poster of our name over the weekend.  


Unfortunately, Middle Egyptian does not have a letter for "L" which is kind of essential for me.  Obviously, I can't just make one up, but I need to put something there.  What would you use?

My thoughts:
D
T
R

Don't ask for my name, rutxe.  But which one do you think would make a fair substitute?  Imagine Na'vi with no "L", then what?

Edit: All right, probably not too fair or easy.  I only have one "L" and it goes like this: "alo"



^ "I am Brooke"
« Last Edit: February 17, 2012, 10:55:04 am by Stranger Come Knocking »


I will not die for less
I dug my grave in this
Will I go before I fall
Or live to slight the odds?

This is my book.  You should check it out.  Speculative sci-fi murder mystery.

Offline wm.annis

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Re: When Letters Go Missing...
« Reply #1 on: February 17, 2012, 07:53:42 pm »
Ah, then you have not read the full riveting tale of how Jean-François Champoleon first cracked hieroglyphics with the help of the Rosetta Stone.  The names he noticed first in the cartouches were "Cleopatra" and "Ptolemy" — both names with /l/ in them: the cartouches (top name Ptolemy, bottom Cleopatra).  The relaxing lion was used for /l/ when transcribing Greek names in ancient Egyptian.

If you have patience, you can use Jsesh to lay out your hieroglyphs more satisfyingly.
'Awa lì'fya ke tam kawkrr.
A Na'vi Reference Grammar

Offline Irtaviš Ačankif

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Re: When Letters Go Missing...
« Reply #2 on: February 17, 2012, 08:12:05 pm »
Hieroglyphic transliterations, if read to an Ancient Egyptian, would sound as foreign to them as Na'vi to a common English person.

All the vowels are assigned random values and some consonants are wrong too. Think of Na'vi read like this: "Aer note komomiei"

I love correcting people's pronunciation of "Tutankhamun." It is properly pronounced [təwaːt ʕaːnəx ʔaˈmaːn], or approximately in English: tuh-waaht aah-nuHH 'a-maahn. Yes. Six syllables.
Previously Ithisa Kīranem, Uniltìrantokx te Skxawng.

Name from my Sakaš conlang, from Sakasul Ältäbisäl Acarankïp

"First name" is Ačankif, not Eltabiš! In Na'vi, Atsankip.

Offline Stranger Come Knocking

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Re: When Letters Go Missing...
« Reply #3 on: February 18, 2012, 07:20:13 am »
Ah, then you have not read the full riveting tale of how Jean-François Champoleon first cracked hieroglyphics with the help of the Rosetta Stone.
Yes...riveting ._.

Quote
Quote
The names he noticed first in the cartouches were "Cleopatra" and "Ptolemy" — both names with /l/ in them: the cartouches (top name Ptolemy, bottom Cleopatra).  The relaxing lion was used for /l/ when transcribing Greek names in ancient Egyptian.
Old Egyptian (2600 BC ­ 2000 BC)

    The language of the Old Kingdom and First Intermediate Period. The Pyramid Texts are the largest body of literature written in this phase of the language. Tomb walls of elite Egyptians from this period also bear autobiographical writings representing Old Egyptian. One of its distinguishing characteristics is the tripling of ideograms, phonograms, and determinatives to indicate the plural. Overall, it does not differ significantly from the next stage.

Middle Egyptian (2000 BC ­ 1300 BC)

    Often dubbed Classical Egyptian, this stage is known from a variety of textual evidence in hieroglyphic and hieratic scripts dated from about the Middle Kingdom. It includes funerary texts inscribed on sarcophagi such as the Coffin Texts; wisdom texts instructing people on how to lead a life that exemplified the ancient Egyptian philosophical worldview (see the Ipuwer papyrus); tales detailing the adventures of a certain individual, for example the Story of Sinhue; medical and scientific texts such as the Edwin Smith Papyrus and the Ebers papyrus; and poetic texts praising a god or a pharaoh, like the Hymn to the Nile. The Egyptian vernacular already began to change from the written language as evidenced by some Middle Kingdom hieratic texts, but classical Middle Egyptian continued to be written in formal contexts well into the Late Dynastic period (sometimes referred to as Late Middle Egyptian).

Late Egyptian (1300 BC ­ 700 BC)

    Records of this stage appear in the second part of the New Kingdom, considered by many as the "Golden Age" of ancient Egyptian civilization. It contains a rich body of religious and secular literature, comprising such famous examples as the Story of Wenamun and the Instructions of Ani. It was also the language of Ramesside administration. Late Egyptian is not totally distinct from Middle Egyptian, as many "classicisms" appear in historical and literary documents of this phase. However, the difference between Middle and Late Egyptian is greater than that between Middle and Old Egyptian. It's also a better representative than Middle Egyptian of the spoken language in the New Kingdom and beyond. Hieroglyphic orthography saw an enormous expansion of its graphemic inventory between the Late Dynastic and Ptolemaic periods.

http://www.crystalinks.com/egyptlanguage.html
Quote
Queen Cleopatra of Egypt is the most well known of all the ancient egyptian queens. Cleopatra was born in Alexandria in 69 B.C. during the reign of the Ptolemy family to Ptolemy XII.

http://www.ancient-egypt-online.com/queen-cleopatra-of-egypt.html
Quote
In 332, the Macedonian king Alexander the Great conquered Egypt and gave a new capital to the old kingdom along the Nile, Alexandria. After his death (11 June 323), his friend Ptolemy became satrap of Egypt, and started to behave himself rather independently. When Perdiccas, the regent of Alexander's mentally unfit successor Philip Arridaeus arrived in 320, he was defeated. This marked the beginning of Egypt's independence under a new dynasty, the Ptolemies (or Lagids). Ptolemy accepted the royal title in 306.

http://www.livius.org/ps-pz/ptolemies/ptolemies.htm
Cleopatra and Ptolemy ruled when Late Egyptian writing was in use.  We're studying Middle Egyptian (or at least I am).  Or do I have the wrong people? ???

After Breakfast Edit:
Actually, after 700, Demotic writing came into use until AD.  But I doubt they would revert back to Middle Egyptian to carve into the RS when Late Egyptian would do just as well.  Besides, everyone had to be able to read it (those who could read anyway).  Hieroglyphic was used for the priests.  Demotic was the language of the commoners, and Greek was the language of the rulers.

If you have patience, you can use Jsesh to lay out your hieroglyphs more satisfyingly.
*clicks link*
...
*falls over*
Where do I begin?!
« Last Edit: February 18, 2012, 07:55:28 am by Stranger Come Knocking »


I will not die for less
I dug my grave in this
Will I go before I fall
Or live to slight the odds?

This is my book.  You should check it out.  Speculative sci-fi murder mystery.

 

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