Author Topic: Archi Language: a phonetic extreme...  (Read 2914 times)

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Offline 'Oma Tirea

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Archi Language: a phonetic extreme...
« on: November 16, 2010, 01:07:18 am »
...for containing the extremely rare consonants [ʟ̝̊], [ʟ̝̊ː], [ʟ̝̊ʷ], [ʟ̝̊ʷː], [ʟ̝], and the affricates [k͡ʟ̝̊], [k͡ʟ̝̊ʼ], [k͡ʟ̝̊ʷ], [k͡ʟ̝̊ʷʼ].  Good luck if you can cleanly enunciate them ;)

Phoneticians and linguists alike would refer to the first five consonants as voiceless velar lateral fricatives.  These are highly unusual because they are lateral instead of central, as most languages would have, and the four voiceless velar lateral affricates are a specialty because even the regular velar affricates are relatively rare as a phoneme in themselves amongst languages.

Archi is also extreme for having almost as many consonants as its caucasian cousin Ubykh, and no click consonants.  It's a wonder how there can be so many variations of [ʟ̝̊], an already-rare phoneme...

More info: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Archi_language

Oh, and I should mention that I plan to include the plain voiceless velar lateral fricative in one of my conlangs, 'cause that's how much I love it XD
It contrasts with the much-more-common voiceless alveolar lateral fricative [ɬ], and there is no lateral approximant at all, not even [l].

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Offline Taronyu

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Re: Archi Language: a phonetic extreme...
« Reply #1 on: November 16, 2010, 04:32:03 am »
That's not even the beginning of Archi. Have you heard about their agreement system? Dear god.

Offline wm.annis

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Re: Archi Language: a phonetic extreme...
« Reply #2 on: November 16, 2010, 11:12:06 am »
...for containing the extremely rare consonants [ʟ̝̊], [ʟ̝̊ː], [ʟ̝̊ʷ], [ʟ̝̊ʷː], [ʟ̝], and the affricates [k͡ʟ̝̊], [k͡ʟ̝̊ʼ], [k͡ʟ̝̊ʷ], [k͡ʟ̝̊ʷʼ].  Good luck if you can cleanly enunciate them ;)

I sound like Sylvester the Cat.  "ʟ̝̊uffering ʟ̝̊uccotaʟ̝̊!"
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Offline Kì'eyawn

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Re: Archi Language: a phonetic extreme...
« Reply #3 on: November 16, 2010, 11:59:28 am »
*feels left out of the loop*  ???  :-\ I'monna go sit in the corner now...
eo Eywa oe 'ia

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Offline Taronyu

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Re: Archi Language: a phonetic extreme...
« Reply #4 on: November 16, 2010, 01:19:23 pm »
*feels left out of the loop*  ???  :-\ I'monna go sit in the corner now...

What don't you understand? :)

Offline Kì'eyawn

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Re: Archi Language: a phonetic extreme...
« Reply #5 on: November 16, 2010, 02:03:10 pm »
*feels left out of the loop*  ???  :-\ I'monna go sit in the corner now...

What don't you understand? :)

HRH  ;D  Well, ma 'eylan, let's start with the fact that i have only very rudimentary knowledge of IPA—that is, i learned the IPA i needed to write American English for my Intro Linguistics class (the only linguistics i ever took).  So those infernal symbols, whatever the hell they are, terrify me.  Then, since i took my one and only linguistics course in '03, i have completely forgotten pretty much all the vocab relevant to discussing place and manner of articulation.  So, to quote the Bard, it's all Greek to me.

Don't feel compelled to explain any of it, it's okay.  This is what happens when i foolishly wander into the linguistics subforum XD

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Offline Taronyu

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Re: Archi Language: a phonetic extreme...
« Reply #6 on: November 16, 2010, 02:43:49 pm »
Well, basically it is an unvoiced (the difference between [p] (unvoiced) and [ b ] (voiced)) - velar (where the [k] is), fricative (like an [ s ] or [f] or [h].)

Hard to pronounce. Oh, yeah, it's also sort of like an [l] - but back and devoiced.

Don't be scared!
« Last Edit: November 16, 2010, 04:30:11 pm by Taronyu »

Offline Kì'eyawn

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Re: Archi Language: a phonetic extreme...
« Reply #7 on: November 16, 2010, 03:41:08 pm »
Well, basically it is an unvoiced (the difference between [p] (unvoiced) and (voiced)) - velar (where the [k] is), fricative (like an or [f] or [h].)

Hard to pronounce. Oh, yeah, it's also sort of like an [l] - but back and devoiced.

Don't be scared!

*makes cat-hacking-up-hairball sound*  Like that?

 ;D

Or perhaps this...

gggollum, gggollum
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Offline 'Oma Tirea

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Re: Archi Language: a phonetic extreme...
« Reply #8 on: November 17, 2010, 10:59:29 pm »
...for containing the extremely rare consonants [ʟ̝̊], [ʟ̝̊ː], [ʟ̝̊ʷ], [ʟ̝̊ʷː], [ʟ̝], and the affricates [k͡ʟ̝̊], [k͡ʟ̝̊ʼ], [k͡ʟ̝̊ʷ], [k͡ʟ̝̊ʷʼ].  Good luck if you can cleanly enunciate them ;)

I sound like Sylvester the Cat.  "ʟ̝̊uffering ʟ̝̊uccotaʟ̝̊!"

Although it sounds more lispy if it's palatal XD

[img]http://swokaikran.skxawng.lu/sigbar/nwotd.php?p=2b[/img]

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Offline ShadowedSin

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Re: Archi Language: a phonetic extreme...
« Reply #9 on: November 21, 2010, 07:08:59 pm »
That is just frightening and Ubyhk scares me to death. Sounds like it's right up there with how infamous Basque gets with everyone oO.
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Offline 'Oma Tirea

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Re: Archi Language: a phonetic extreme...
« Reply #10 on: November 23, 2010, 05:06:08 pm »
That is just frightening and Ubyhk scares me to death. Sounds like it's right up there with how infamous Basque gets with everyone oO.

...and Let's not forget about a language whose name I am not sure how to pronounce: !Xóõ

Sooooo many click consonant and vowel variations... well over 100 XP

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Offline wannikiba

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Re: Archi Language: a phonetic extreme...
« Reply #11 on: November 27, 2010, 11:50:57 pm »
That is just frightening and Ubyhk scares me to death. Sounds like it's right up there with how infamous Basque gets with everyone oO.

...and Let's not forget about a language whose name I am not sure how to pronounce: !Xóõ

Sooooo many click consonant and vowel variations... well over 100 XP



Other examples of "phonetic extremes" might include Salishan languages such as Nuxálk. Try to pronounce words like xłp̓x̣ʷłtłpłłskʷc̓ or t͡sʰkʰtʰskʷʰt͡sʰ...

Offline 'Oma Tirea

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Re: Archi Language: a phonetic extreme...
« Reply #12 on: November 28, 2010, 12:44:22 am »
Other examples of "phonetic extremes" might include Salishan languages such as Nuxálk. Try to pronounce words like xłp̓x̣ʷłtłpłłskʷc̓ or t͡sʰkʰtʰskʷʰt͡sʰ...

Sran, the mighty phrases with no voice or vowels.  I have (tried to) say those myself XDD

I remember stumbling across this phrase with a long consonant [ɬ]: [nujamɬɬɬɬ]

[img]http://swokaikran.skxawng.lu/sigbar/nwotd.php?p=2b[/img]

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Offline Dreamlight

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Re: Archi Language: a phonetic extreme...
« Reply #13 on: December 01, 2010, 11:20:15 pm »
*makes cat-hacking-up-hairball sound*  Like that?

LOL!  I imagine that's how it sounds.  :D
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Re: Archi Language: a phonetic extreme...
« Reply #14 on: December 06, 2010, 01:25:11 pm »
I happen to have two strange L's in my Norwegian Dialecct, can you give me a sound sample on some of them or descrcibe them?

edit: just found out what one is called: it's a palatal L, which also the mid-part of the tongue is also pushed against the roof in consonants where the tungetip hits the roof. We also have Ts, Ds and Ns palatalized. [ɲ (nj), ʎ (lj), ɟ (dj), c (tj)]

EDIT: The other consonat is a tl or IPA [ɬ], strange sound, cover the inside of the half-circle made by your upper teeth with your tongue and let air flow out throughout the sides. EDIT: seems to be one of those you are talking about, strange sound, but not hard to pronounce.

I am not a linguist, so I hope this is a sufficient description. the IPAs are copied from wikipedia.

Are any of the l's in that language similiar to those?
« Last Edit: December 07, 2010, 03:30:37 pm by Tsamsiyu92 »

Offline 'Oma Tirea

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Re: Archi Language: a phonetic extreme...
« Reply #15 on: December 08, 2010, 03:36:34 am »
EDIT: The other consonat is a tl or IPA [ɬ], strange sound, cover the inside of the half-circle made by your upper teeth with your tongue and let air flow out throughout the sides. EDIT: seems to be one of those you are talking about, strange sound, but not hard to pronounce.

I am not a linguist, so I hope this is a sufficient description. the IPAs are copied from wikipedia.

Are any of the l's in that language similiar to those?

Only the l-sounds mentioned in the first post, plus a regular [l].  Notably, though, the [ɬ]-sound can be fairly ubiquitous among Native American and African languages.  It even occurs in Welsh, where it is written <ll>.

The tl digraph represents the affricate [t͡ɬ] in Mexican Spanish, and perhaps a few other languages as well.

[img]http://swokaikran.skxawng.lu/sigbar/nwotd.php?p=2b[/img]

ÌTXTSTXRR!!

Srake serar le'Ìnglìsìa lì'fyayä aylì'ut?  Nari si älofoniru rutxe!!

Tsamsiyu92

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Re: Archi Language: a phonetic extreme...
« Reply #16 on: December 08, 2010, 03:55:17 am »
I think wikipedia said that the sound was formerly a tl-ish sound like the one you mention, but now is only a [ɬ].

Offline Lance R. Casey

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Re: Archi Language: a phonetic extreme...
« Reply #17 on: December 08, 2010, 10:02:01 am »
The tl digraph represents the affricate [t͡ɬ] in Mexican Spanish, and perhaps a few other languages as well.

In Klingon it's tlh.

// Lance R. Casey

 

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