Documentaries?

[Kekerusey]

So, does anyone like documentaries and if so what kind?

I tend to like documentaries such as science ones. The BBC has a particularly good series of science review programs called "Horizon".

Keke

[Kì'eyawn]

Hmm, i've never heard of "Horizon."  I'm hoping to become a science writer, so i should look into it.

I've not seen too many science documentaries, although i do like to watch science programs on tv.  I tend to watch a lot of documentaries on wildlife, philosophy and religion, and also occasionally on politics and war—when i can stomach it.

[Lolet]

I like the planet earth ones. They were the only movies I ever cried at. 

[Yayo]

The most memorable one that I have watched would definately be "An Inconvenient Truth".
Other than that, I enjoy any and every documentary presented by Sir David Attenborough.

[Kekerusey]

Hmm, i've never heard of "Horizon."  I'm hoping to become a science writer, so i should look into it.

You can find a lot of good stuff from the Horizon series up on the torrents (you may even be able to spoof BBC's excellent iplayer by going via some proxy that hides your, presumed US, IP) ... the BBC does some seriously good science stuff, Professor Jim Al-Khalili's 3 part "Atom" for example. Horizon this year has covered cold death and it's uses in medicine, the death of the oceans,, what happened before the big band, is seeing believing, the human genome and asteroids ... all good stuff. Anything by Brian Cox (did a brilliant one on the trouble with gravity) and Michio Kaku is cool too.

EDIT: Wow! I didn't think it would embed that!

Keke

[Emtokay]

I'm stuck on the Military and History channels watching documentaries about War and other stuff military related

[Lolet]

Do paranormal shows count? 

[Kì'eyawn]

EDIT: Wow! I didn't think it would embed that!

It embedded it, but for me there's a big unfriendly-looking black bar across the middle that says "NOT AVAILABLE IN YOUR AREA."

On the plus side, though, i was reading there are plans to international-ize iPlayer so us losers in the States can use it.  Then i'll be able to watch Doctor Who without waiting forever for it to come over here 

[Emtokay]

Unlucky for you Americans, us Aussies get it here no problems, Doctor who I mean

[Kekerusey]

Do paranormal shows count? 

I would say that a documentary at least deals with something generally accepted as fact or is an objective discussion of somethign that isn't. What "generally accepted" means is hard to say but I tend to define it as accepted generally within relatively modern academia and learned opinion.

Within that definition then my answer would be no.

Keke

[Kekerusey]

Unlucky for you Americans, us Aussies get it here no problems, Doctor who I mean

on BBC iPlayer?

Keke

[Seykxetskxe te Vawm 'Ewan'ite (Kalin Kato)]

Mostly any on Discovery Channel or History Channel, I do love Planet Earth and Life a lot. Which had more time to watch them more

[Emtokay]

Unlucky for you Americans, us Aussies get it here no problems, Doctor who I mean

on BBC iPlayer?

Keke

No, one of our ABC channels has it on Saturday nights

[Kì'eyawn]

Unlucky for you Americans, us Aussies get it here no problems, Doctor who I mean

on BBC iPlayer?

Keke

No, one of our ABC channels has it on Saturday nights

Lucky.  We technically can get it on BBC America (which is one of those "premium" channels you have to pay gobs of money for), but because the entire American empire will collapse if the tv doesn't constantly send the message that you need to buy more stuff, a lot of times Doctor Who episodes are edited by some %$#@!head to squeeze in the omnipresent American commercials 

[Eana Tanhì]

i love everything about space, so i watch almoust every night documentaries on Discovery Science, it's space season   me and my dad often watch different documentaries, but my favourite ones are about science

[Kì'eyawn]

Ma oeyä smuktu, i think this thread has been substantially derailed—of which i myself am thoroughly guilty.

Ma Tsmukan Keke, i intend to reply to you, but with your permission i will do so in a PM, so that this thread can return to its original topic—that is, documentaries.  And ma Eana Tanhì, thank you for getting us back on track.

Edit: I've split the topic to help us get back on track.  The discussion of how science ought to respond to paranormal claims has been moved here.

[Txur’Itan]

DOCUMENTARIES are a great way of exposing the lay person to the science of discovery, I love to watch many kinds, from animal and insect programs, to geological programs, to historical programs, to space exploration.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wild_Kingdom
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cosmos:_A_Personal_Voyage

I even like some of the goofy documentaries.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trekkies_(film)

Or fake ones.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/This_Is_Spinal_Tap
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blair_witch_project
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/A_Mighty_Wind

Or ones that are just pure entertainment value.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Making_of

Spoiler: OFF TOPIC - GHOSTS

Ghost Hunting may need to be renamed someday.

For now, Ghost Hunting, that is what it is called because that it is the prevailing theory of a cause, for a commonly accepted and simultaneously derided, while still a specific classification, of an observed phenomena.

A ghost according to Wikipedia.

Spoiler

According to traditional belief, a ghost is the soul or spirit of a deceased person or animal, taken to be capable of appearing in visible form or otherwise manifesting itself to the living. Descriptions of the apparition of ghosts vary widely: The mode of manifestation can range from an invisible presence to translucent or wispy shapes, to realistic, life-like visions. The deliberate attempt to contact the spirit of a deceased person is known as necromancy, or in spiritism as a séance.
The belief in manifestations of the spirits of the dead is widespread, dating back to animism or ancestor worship in pre-literate cultures. Certain religious practices—funeral rites, exorcisms, and some practices of spiritualism and ritual magic—are specifically designed to appease the spirits of the dead. Ghosts are generally described as solitary essences which haunt particular locations, objects, or people with which they were associated in life, though stories of phantom armies, ghost trains, phantom ships, and even ghost animals have also been recounted.[1][2]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ghost

Ghost hunting according to wikipedia.

Spoiler

Ghost hunting is the process of investigating locations that are reported to be haunted by ghosts.
Typically, a ghost hunting team will attempt to collect evidence claimed to be supportive of paranormal activity. Ghost hunters often utilize a variety of electronic equipment, such as the following types: the EMF meter; digital thermometer; handheld and static digital video cameras, such as thermographic (or infrared) and night vision; digital audio recorder; and computer. Some organized teams of ghost hunters refer to themselves as paranormal investigators.
While many groups claim to utilize scientific methods in their search for the paranormal, science can not confirm the existence of ghosts.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ghost_hunting

Paranormal According to Wikipedia.

Spoiler

Paranormal is a general term (coined ca. 1915–1920) that designates experiences that lie outside "the range of normal experience or scientific explanation" or that indicates phenomena that are understood to be outside of science's current ability to explain or measure.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paranormal

Black Holes are a paranormal activity are they not, at least for the time being?

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If we follow the philosophy of dismissal before discovery, then the telescope should not have been invented as there was nothing to see that could not be seen without one. The Hubble telescope has shown such wonders never before imagined to the level captured by the deep field photo, or even the ultra deep field photo.  The tools we have now, still don't allow us to know with certainty, that what we are seeing are galaxies, and stars in those galaxies. They just appear to be cloudy swirls of light that our observations, guesses, mathematics and physics tell us are more than just swirls of light.

The components of the mind that perceive the world around it are not limited by tangible perceptions. 

Mathematics and physics would be irrelevant as they are constructions and tools that would not exist without the imaginations of early mathematicians and scientists.

The concepts of what Einstein perceived of as theoretically existing, required more from his ability to imagine connections between what he was able to perceive, and what he could not see because of limited technology.

Unless we have evidence that Hippolyte Fizeau and Léon Foucault and Albert Einstein and Nathan Rosen traveled space time at near light speed or faster than light speeds, visited a black hole, traversed a wormhole, or actually observed the conversion process of matter into energy, there would be no way to prove they didn't exclusively guess about these concepts before developing their formulae or measurement techniques.

I have to accept the historical record as is, as I am not obsessed with disproving the historians or precisely aligning my citing of history and discovery with the appropriate scientist for the sake of not being harangued.  I was not present during their research, or discussions, I doubt anyone on these boards has been.  Thus, it is not immediately clear to me whether or not history accurately records who theorized what and when, or whether or not they proved their point of view to be accurate. 

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The study of the things that are classified as "paranormal", is a stigmatized study of the unknown, by testing the unseen using the tools of our current time. 

This study is further complicated by legitimate science in this area, as the findings of anyone trying to properly prove or disprove anything tend to be muddled with skilled scientists not wishing to be associated with such studies.  Furthermore, arm chair scientists are being dismissed out of hand for some obscure and often contrived ideal of good research.  An arbitrary ideal, that would be clearly irrelevant because of the lack of an effectively defined process for analysis of related phenomena and the consistent undermining of any attempts by those who are interested in such study.

http://www.livescience.com/strangenews/061027_ghost_hunters.html

I call this flawed argument - "The circular logic of ""it does not exist because people are wrong about something else."""

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Stating that one is hallucinating or lying without finding evidence of this case is no more or less valid than what they state they observed.

If "paranormally classified" events are indeed hallucinations, then that would be an unusually ordered collection of memories, and an uncharacteristically specific example in recorded observation.  The human mind is not thought to be so ordered in it's thinking when it is truly hallucinating.  If you wish to think logically, not everyone on the planet that has observed or has claimed to observe a "Ghost" phenomena has Schizophrenia or Bipolar Disorder.  Any claim to the contrary is baseless.

Spoiler: Hallucination

Hallucinations are most often associated with the mental illness schizophrenia. However, hallucinations may also occur for those with bipolar disorder when either depression or mania has psychotic features. Hallucinations are one possible characteristic specifically of Bipolar I Disorder; other less severe types of manic depression (Bipolar II and Cyclothymia, for example) by definition exclude the presence of hallucinations.

http://bipolar.about.com/cs/faqs/f/faq_hallucinate.htm

Hallucinations themselves can not be proven. But there is still miles or research on all of the flavors.  There is no existing way for anyone to observe the hallucinations of another person, you can experience your own hallucinations, but there is no way to prove that you had them just that you may have had some other physiological event that is similar to those encountered by others who have claimed to be or have been observed to be in a hallucinatory state.

Spoiler: Common Symptoms of Early-Onset Bipolar Disorder

Bed-wetting (especially in boys)
Night terrors
Rapid or pressured speech
Obsessional behavior
Excessive daydreaming
Compulsive behavior
Motor & vocal tics
Learning disabilities
Poor short-term memory
Lack of organization
Fascination with gore or morbid topics
Hypersexuality
Manipulative behavior
Bossiness
Lying
Suicidal thoughts
Destruction of property
Paranoia
Hallucinations & delusions

If "paranormally classified" events are indeed lies, then what is the psychological motivation of such lies, and how can it be identified by the lay person?

Bipolar Disorder comes to mind as a possible cause, but psychological evaluations should be conducted to prove it.  Even still, a person who has this disorder can still observe things factually and report them in correct context.

I can not assume that what IS observed simply DOES NOT exists any more that what WAS NOT observed CAN NOT exist.

I think that finding an explanation is much more desirable, regardless of the answer.  If done scientifically, then theories should be changed to suit existing facts, not changing facts to suit theories.



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A witness testimony IS unreliable, but what other methods do we have to gather clues about these sorts of phenomena? 

Spoiler: Polygraph tests?

Tina Resch (born October 23, 1969)

In 1992, as an adult with the divorced name of Christina Boyer, she was jailed, along with a boyfriend of only a few months, for allegedly being responsible for the death of her three year old daughter, who was in the sole custody of the boyfriend at the time. She did not have a trial, but in October of 1994 accepted a plea bargain to avoid the possibility of a death penalty. She passed a polygraph examination indicating her innocence less than 24 hours before her plea hearing, and questions have since been raised concerning her convictions on the two counts in her indictment, for which she was sentenced to life plus 20 years in prison. The type of plea she entered is called an Alford plea, one in which the defendant maintains their innocence but accepts a lesser sentence imposed to avoid the possibility of a harsher one, which in Ms. Boyer's case would have been death.

http://hubpages.com/hub/Haunted_Places_In_The_USA

Spoiler: Ghost Detectors?

What Is Real?

The real truth behind ghost detectors is that there are no dedicated ghost detectors and the United States has never issued a patent for any invention that claimed to detect ghosts. But does that mean that ghosts are not real and that there are no inventions that can be used to detect ghosts? Cameras, tape recorders, and video cameras have all been used by amateur and professional ghost hunters. Several laboratory test instruments are now being used to aid in the hunt of the paranormal. These are all inventions designed for other purposes but are perfectly suited for use in ghost busting activities. Among the many inventions that can double as ghost detectors are:

*EMF Detectors EMF detectors were designed to detect electromagnetic emissions from microwave ovens and high tension electrical wires. EMF detectors alert investigators to the presence of ghosts by measuring electromagnetic distortion in the two to seven milligauss range. The models that come most highly recommended by paranormal investigators are the Trifield EMF Detector and the Trifield Natural EM.
*Electrostatic Charge Meters Electrostatic charge meters can detect minute electrostatic charges, like static electricity. Investigators claim that certain hauntings are electrostatic in nature.
*Motion Detectors Ultrasonic and microwave motion detectors use reflected waves to monitor an area for movement, even the movement of ghosts.
*Geiger Counters A geiger counter measures alpha, beta, and gamma wave radiation. Radiation has been detected in the area of hauntings.
*Infrared Thermal Scanner Infrared thermal scanners detect "cold spots" or drops in temperature that indicates ghost activity. These cold spots may be from 25 degrees to 60 degrees colder than the surrounding ambient air temperature.

http://inventors.about.com/od/gstartinventions/a/Ghost_Detectors.htm

I think that what people should be asking themselves is, how much do they know about everything in the universe/multiverse.

If the answer is "I do not know", then they probably are being honest about what they understand of death and if anything or nothing happens after it takes place. 

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The next phase, taking a serious step towards collecting observations in a tangible way, and identifying them for what they actually are.

I pose a theory to test against - what may be revealed years from now could be temporal echoes trapped by the Earths gravity well, or synaptic firings caused by triggers that we can not measure yet.  Who knows, maybe the deeper recesses of the human mind and how it functions is the next real frontier of exploration.

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[Kì'eyawn]

Ooh, Cosmos.  Carl Sagan is my patron saint. 

I need to get through some of the newer BBC documentaries; they look amazing.  I've gotten through a little bit of The Blue Planet, but that's it.