A human return to Pandora

[Tsu'roen]

Actually the deepest parts of the ocean here on earth - the Mariana trench - is where the pacific plate pushes underneath the Philippine plate:



So I could imagine that there are some mighty deep spots in the Pandoran ocean.

[Kaltxì Palulukan!]

"K" you make good points and made me laugh yet again. It's good to have you back. And "T," that diagram is great. Cookies all around. I am beginning to see the problems with RDA-sponsored oceanography, but I can't shake this feeling. I know JC is "fascinated" by the ocean. I would not be surprised if it turns out he is an avid and accomplished sailor (I have no information on this). Someone find out if he starts talking to whomever took over for Jacques Cousteau ("the end-all, be-all world's most amazing oceanographer in the history of everything forever and ever amen!"). Until then, I will cede my point. I hate to try and seriously guess the plot of A2, as I want to be surprised. I won't even watch the trailers--I will stick my fingers in my ears, and close my eyes and shout, "LA LA LA LA LA LA!" so I am amazed by what I see when A2 comes out.

BUT--this early on, it is fun to play with possibilities of what the humans "can do" given the circumstances. I really hope we get at least 10 minutes of earth, and 8 minutes of that being Selfridge getting interrogated by rich old men in a darkened room. If the RDA does go to other moons--what about the Na'vi? The Na'vi will*not* become space fighters. "The battle for Hell's Gate 2" is hardly a reality (IMHO). I just can't see JC giving us "round 2" for the same real estate. What's the upside? The closest unobtanium is right in the middle of "Torukville." They either daisy-cutter the Hometree area (any decent kinetic projectile will work really) or they find a lesser populated area. And why would they tease us with "water but no life" on other moons? That just says "create air" (water to become hydrogen (fuel) and oxygen, and start a base on THAT moon to do (something)?

Help! My brain is exploding!

[Tsa'räni]

I will be surprised if we don't see an exploration of Pandora's oceans in one of the sequels.  It may not be a movie focused on that aspect, but I bet we'll get to see some stuff under them.  A movie that focused on lots of underwater stuff would present some serious plot problems to overcome, though, and even more difficult would be finding solutions that didn't feel like a stretch.

[kintìomum]

Funny thing what my brain can come up with once it starts working.
The biggest stress a reentry vehicle will face is heat and pressure when it does its job.
Now, If you've got something that's able to withstand a pressure that's some ten times higher than at reentry: Why not just add some heat shielding and thus create a "drop-and-dive" submarine?
Sure, it won't be comfortable at all to do a reentry in a vehicle that's designed to operate in a much denser medium, but one could also add some use-n-lose-wings so that you don't have to carry the now useless wings underwater.
Hmm, that would be a three-component thing.
The submarine, added heat shielding and wings with some sort of burn-dry-engine. Once the thing reaches "safe" speed the wings and heat shielding are discarded (did I hear exploding bolts?) and with a giant splash the only evidence that something went into the ocean is some useless wreckage floating on the water... It wouldn't even be that much evidence because the heat shielding can be discarded quite high in the atmosphere so that it disperses over a large area creating funny shiny splinters and the wings might be constructed to sink to the ground to create some beautiful reef...
Purely unintentional, I bet the RDA would favor if it crashed into some Na'vi village just to show them that they can do it.

[Kaltxì Palulukan!]

(snip)
Purely unintentional, I bet the RDA would favor if it crashed into some Na'vi village just to show them that they can do it.

With wit and keen insight (that I um... snipped) in your posts, how is it that you aren't choking on at least 50 KP, just for the value and entertainment you bring to LN? You are one of the unseen jewels of this place. You are too funny.

Okay, back on topic. I see no value to the RDA "fighting Navi." Unless they spin a "global war on Na'vi" as a propaganda--and that is expensive and tiresome. People (seem to) want the goodies of Pandora--not news that there is a "war in space." My point here is that I cannot see how they will return to Pandora. But we MUST have Na'vi--right? Right? Isn't that what sold 2 billion dollars (US) in tickets? I don't think JC will take us to another moon and make the trilogy about the exploits of the RDA (ooh ooh! I know this one! The RDA gets the topic marker--right?)

But the Na'vi should get the topic market, right? They are the focal point of the trilogy (I hope)? Right? Well a 'happily ever after" movie won't sell many tickets. (Stupid Alvin an the Chipmunks made 200 million (in the US alone!) going up against Avatar--is there any sanity in this country?) $200 million for a trio of annoying cartoon ghetto chipmunks verses $600 million for the greatest movie of our time? Bah! Earth people are stupid! Like babies! (You know the rest)

So, (um back on point) How do we get back to Pandora? Do we say, "screw public opinion," and fight the Na'vi (and Eywa) for territory to get unobtanium? Do we go undersea thinking "well, at least there are no blue monkeys 20 feet under water"? Do me land on a separate moon (and um... do what again)? I would make a lousy field COO for the RDA. I simply have no idea how they can make this work. Please help me understand the ways of evil. How best can the RDA exploit Pandora? (Exploding bolts--nice design. Low tech, and the ultimate in disposability.)

[kintìomum]

With wit and keen insight (that I um... snipped) in your posts, how is it that you aren't choking on at least 50 KP, just for the value and entertainment you bring to LN? You are one of the unseen jewels of this place. You are too funny.

Well, the part of the unseen jewel... you're the second person to tell me that with the first being a close friend of mine on a totally unrelated topic...
Why I don't choke on KP? Easy: I burn it for more ideas

I see no value to the RDA "fighting Navi." Unless they spin a "global war on Na'vi" as a propaganda--and that is expensive and tiresome. People (seem to) want the goodies of Pandora--not news that there is a "war in space." My point here is that I cannot see how they will return to Pandora. But we MUST have Na'vi--right? Right? Isn't that what sold 2 billion dollars (US) in tickets? I don't think JC will take us to another moon and make the trilogy about the exploits of the RDA (ooh ooh! I know this one! The RDA gets the topic marker--right?)

The RDA actively fighting the Na'vi would be rubbish. There might be some pretty messed up pride on their side but as we found out earlier it makes no (financial) sense to engage in war with the Na'vi.
I guess they'd more likely go on the avenue of finding a remote location and start mining from there on out. As difficult as it will get since it seems to be common opinion here (and in the ASG and the movie) that every larger Unobtanium deposit also is home to a sacred place of the Na'vi. And somehow -no corp-man ever's gonna see the reason since they can offer bluejeans and diet coke!- natives are somewhat protective of their sacred places...

But the Na'vi should get the topic market, right? They are the focal point of the trilogy (I hope)? Right? Well a 'happily ever after" movie won't sell many tickets.
(Stupid Alvin an the Chipmunks made 200 million (in the US alone!) going up against Avatar--is there any sanity in this country?) $200 million for a trio of annoying cartoon ghetto chipmunks verses $600 million for the greatest movie of our time? Bah! Earth people are stupid! Like babies! (You know the rest)

A happy ever after would only be possible with a huge time jump in the story and some cheesy three lines like:
It was hard.
We rebuilt it with everyones help.
Now we're happy.
And my am I happy that I can't imagine JC doing that!
Oh, by the way: In Germany a movie about the long (31 years) and oh-so-hard life of a rapper started and pushed Avatar from the top...

How do we get back to Pandora? Do we say, "screw public opinion," and fight the Na'vi (and Eywa) for territory to get unobtanium? Do we go undersea thinking "well, at least there are no blue monkeys 20 feet under water"? Do me land on a separate moon (and um... do what again)?

Getting back is easy: Buy a ticket, board the shuttle and take your place in one of the latest pinnacles in cryogenic technology. When you wake up you won't even feel that six years and several billion miles are behind you! You'll feel all good and ready to master a new world!
Hmm, that sounds like some "come explore and take your claim" marketing line...
The question is who comes when not if they come at all. Humans are so stupid. Show them a wall and they'll run against it until it breaks. Or start building battering rams...
And taking up shop at one of the other moons has no purpose to the real goal. The real goal is some nice silver-shiny crystals that's underneath some rubbish, blue apes and wasteland. And Unobtanium is only found on Pandora, so you'll have to deal with it's ecosystem if you want it.

I would make a lousy field COO for the RDA. I simply have no idea how they can make this work. Please help me understand the ways of evil. How best can the RDA exploit Pandora? (Exploding bolts--nice design. Low tech, and the ultimate in disposability.)

Yeah, you would. You need some more training with "Think Evil"(tm). It really helps

[Kaltxì Palulukan!]

Yeah, yeah, that's all nice.

Dis someone say Diet Coke?

Isn't that that one calorie miracle drink you found on Earth? I hear it comes from a spring guarded by faerie dragons! Here! Take Manhattan! Gimme a handful of beads and a Diet Coke!

(Well, it worked on my ancestors--I guess it would work on me to). 

[kintìomum]

Rest assured, it works on everyone if the difference in knowledge and the amount of suspicion are in the right ratio...
Luckily the Na'vi are so content with their way of live that they seem to be immune to the miracles of wonderful blinky stuff from somewhere else.

[Kaltxì Palulukan!]

Rest assured, it works on everyone if the difference in knowledge and the amount of suspicion are in the right ratio...
Luckily the Na'vi are so content with their way of live that they seem to be immune to the miracles of wonderful blinky stuff from somewhere else.

Pxasik paleface! you promised me Diet Coke! (shoves Na'vi women and children aside)

(singing:) Just for the taste of it--Diet coke!

...and what was this about shiny blinky stuff? Do I need to bring a bigger candy sack?

[Tsu'roen]

Keep in mind that all of the RDAs heavy equipment was robotic! So I don't see any reasons why they wouldn't follow that same scheme under water. And robot mining equipment can easily be build for the deepest depths of the ocean. So from the technical side it shouldn't be a problem.
As for a save surface base: they either may look for an uninhabited island to build a base on or they may use it to build a mobile base - something like an aircraft carrier.
Also keep in mind that the military equipment the RDA was using on Pandora was all 3. grade, totally outdated back on earth. They had total disrespect for the Na'vi and did not take them as a serious thread.  So if they come back they probably don't make that same mistake again and bring the latest and greatest war machinery that is suitable for Pandora.

[Tsa'räni]

There is another implication for the older tech beyond not seeing the Na'vi as a threat.  They preferred the older, simpler, and more reliable weapons.  This is touched on briefly in the ASG.

[Tsu'roen]

Yes, I know.
But they also thought the old stuff is good enough against some stone age savages ...

If they can come back they will surely have reevaluated that position and go with the fanciest stuff suitable for the pandoran environment.

[Tsa'räni]

Assuming the fancier stuff is suited for a Pandoran rain forest, sure.  It's not always so easy.

[Kätsyín te Zotxekay Tsyal’itan]

And assuming the fancier stuff actually exists and RDA can get their grubby corporate hands on it.

[Kaltxì Palulukan!]

Keep in mind that all of the RDAs heavy equipment was robotic! So I don't see any reasons why they wouldn't follow that same scheme under water. And robot mining equipment can easily be build for the deepest depths of the ocean. So from the technical side it shouldn't be a problem.
As for a save surface base: they either may look for an uninhabited island to build a base on or they may use it to build a mobile base - something like an aircraft carrier.
Also keep in mind that the military equipment the RDA was using on Pandora was all 3. grade, totally outdated back on earth. They had total disrespect for the Na'vi and did not take them as a serious thread.  So if they come back they probably don't make that same mistake again and bring the latest and greatest war machinery that is suitable for Pandora.

You make me very sad. But that's only because you make great points! I had forgotten that 'we have bigger toys to play with," and it makes all kinds of sense that they are on their way even now.

[Kätsyín te Zotxekay Tsyal’itan]

^There is alway 'bigger' toys to play with, but, proverbially, "The bigger they are the harder they fall"

[Tsu'roen]

Actually any of today's main battle tanks, fighter jets, ballistic missiles (non nuclear), or predator/reaper drones would be sufficient to get/maintain a solid bridge head on Pandora and wipe out the locals.

Heck the whole attack on the Tree of Souls was an act of dilettantism on Quarich's side. With proper planning and the right choice of weapons the Na'vi wouldn't have had a snowballs chance in hell - Eywa on their side or not. My weapon of choice would be a ballistic missile as there isn't much that can stop it. Now they may not have had one of those at hand so second choice would have been a (bomb)drop from high altitude out of the hovering shuttle. Calculating sheer winds and so on ... it can be deadly precise.

But that wouldn't have worked for the story ...

[Kätsyín te Zotxekay Tsyal’itan]

Yea, a ballistic missile would take all the fun out of it.

It's so much more fun to watch ten foot tall blue people and assorted native animal species splatter humans on floating mountains and the foliage of Pandora 

[Tsu'roen]

Yes, that's why they made Quarich ignorant and blinded with hate

[Kätsyín te Zotxekay Tsyal’itan]

Exactly, for the entertainment factor. Its still fun watching the neurotoxin bearing arrows pierce his chest.