A human return to Pandora

[kintìomum]

Which is everytime rising the question why the Na'vi bother using neurotoxins on their arrows when they are fighting humans.
The arrows are roughly 2m long (The ceremonial bow of Eytukan is stated to be 2.9m in height and the arrows a bit smaller) and normally pierce the spine... shot from the front with Na'vi archery skill and strength behind them.
There was a nice sentence on marksmanship in a Battletech book: It's a great difference if you learn shooting for sports or if your shot decides the next meal on the table
Quaritch being somewhat stupid in his attack was something that bothered me right at the start. He said he was in Recon, too so I figured he'd be familiar with the concept of fighting on enemy territory and the big advantage figthing on known ground brings. And then makes the mistake to totally undervaluate the Na'vi when he attacks them on their hometurf?
I can't imagine any sane reason not to use the shuttle and just make an high altitude drop of explosives. But I'm not in Recon, nor on Pandora nor charged with eliminating the Na'vi resistance...
Perhaps it had something to do with respect and he feared that a "you can do what you want but that thing's gonna rearrange your backyard"-tactic would cost him... or take the fun out of fighting Na'vi for the whole lot of soldiers he had at Hell's Gate... or disappoint the audience.
Hmm, a desperate attack on Hell's Gate to stop the missile launch... Wasn't there a making of somewhere where they shot a scene with humans inside a bunker-like building being attacked from the outside with "stones and arrows"?

[ShadowedSin]

It could also be that Quaritch comes from the good old BOOM BOOM idea of strategy. And yes they do exist in the military. Not a lot of them but some of the tactics used in the Iraqi war at the start did make me really wonder wtf.

[Tsu'roen]

... Wasn't there a making of somewhere where they shot a scene with humans inside a bunker-like building being attacked from the outside with "stones and arrows"?

No, that was the scene in the script where Max leads an attack of the other Avatars on Hell's Gate tower. He was usin a slash cutter to smash in the windows:

Selfridge is stunned. Suddenly the ROAR of an ENGINE makes
them all look up.
OUTSIDE THE WINDOW, MAX sits in the cab of an enormous SLASHCUTTER.
Max flips Selfridge the bird and pushes a lever
forward --
SELFRIDGE
Oh s***.
Selfridge DIVES as --
K-RASHHHHH! The SPINNING TEETH of the SLASH-CUTTER tear
through the window in a blast of glass and lethal air. Alarms
go off. The technicians dive for cover in a blizzard of
glass and shredded debris.
The slash-cutter head pulls back, and AVATARS SCRAMBLE
through the gaping hole into the Ops Center --

[Technowraith]

... Wasn't there a making of somewhere where they shot a scene with humans inside a bunker-like building being attacked from the outside with "stones and arrows"?

No, that was the scene in the script where Max leads an attack of the other Avatars on Hell's Gate tower. He was usin a slash cutter to smash in the windows:

Selfridge is stunned. Suddenly the ROAR of an ENGINE makes
them all look up.
OUTSIDE THE WINDOW, MAX sits in the cab of an enormous SLASHCUTTER.
Max flips Selfridge the bird and pushes a lever
forward --
SELFRIDGE
Oh s***.
Selfridge DIVES as --
K-RASHHHHH! The SPINNING TEETH of the SLASH-CUTTER tear
through the window in a blast of glass and lethal air. Alarms
go off. The technicians dive for cover in a blizzard of
glass and shredded debris.
The slash-cutter head pulls back, and AVATARS SCRAMBLE
through the gaping hole into the Ops Center --

This may end up being a deleted scene or featured in some of the bonus material on an upcoming DVD of Avatar. You see this scene shooting during the video posted in the  "B-Camera Rolls" thread in the "Making of" forum.

[Kätsyín te Zotxekay Tsyal’itan]

Thats from the '07 script, that'd be great to see in an extended or directors cut of the movie.

kintìomum, the reason Quartich went for a careless frontal assualt is he was hoping to catch them off-guard and obliderate the Tree of Souls in a single shock and awe attack and be gone before they knew what had hit. He didn't count on Jake having an informant on the inside of the RDA.

[magne]

Actually any of today's main battle tanks, fighter jets, ballistic missiles (non nuclear), or predator/reaper drones would be sufficient to get/maintain a solid bridge head on Pandora and wipe out the locals.

Heck the whole attack on the Tree of Souls was an act of dilettantism on Quarich's side. With proper planning and the right choice of weapons the Na'vi wouldn't have had a snowballs chance in hell - Eywa on their side or not. My weapon of choice would be a ballistic missile as there isn't much that can stop it. Now they may not have had one of those at hand so second choice would have been a (bomb)drop from high altitude out of the hovering shuttle. Calculating sheer winds and so on ... it can be deadly precise.

But that wouldn't have worked for the story ...

Yes, but most military hardware on Pandora is dual use, the helicopters are combined gunship and transports like the Russian hind (a pretty good design, but not the ultimate gunship), the mecks are clearly a civilian model with the large glass windows; they are also used by the miners.
It makes sense; they are defending themselves against predators and savages and their equipment work well in that role. The guard force was not set up to do a all out war, yes they could have had much better weapons but then they would have had less mining equipment, they would probably also got more protests back home.
Quarich was afraid to wait, the Na'vi would spread out in the jungle to gather food and become a harder target anytime. He was also probably afraid that he had to win fast or get into problems with the rest of the base.

[Kätsyín te Zotxekay Tsyal’itan]

Well, if I remember correct, the RDA cannot be a truly military corporation, so its machines have to be dual purpose. The only machine that I remember that doesn't have an apparent mining purpose is the Dragon gunship, correct me if i'm wrong though.

[Tsu'roen]

The Scorpion Gunships also have only one purpose: firepower.
It's the Samson (the type Trudy flies) that does the transport and heavy lifting

[Technowraith]

The Scorpion Gunships also have only one purpose: firepower.
It's the Samson (the type Trudy flies) that does the transport and heavy lifting

Trudy puts it quite nicely:

"We're not the only thing flying around out there. nor the biggest."

[Kätsyín te Zotxekay Tsyal’itan]

The Scorpion Gunships also have only one purpose: firepower.
It's the Samson (the type Trudy flies) that does the transport and heavy lifting

Correct me if I'm wrong, but aren't they nearly the same thing?

I could be wrong, so feel free to enlighten me.

[Tsu'roen]

The difference is like between an Apache and a Black Hawk helicopter.

[Kätsyín te Zotxekay Tsyal’itan]

Maybe my train of thought is derailed, its late an I'm tired, lol. I thought they looked the same, but I can't think straight at the moment. LOL.

[magne]

The difference is like between an Apache and a Black Hawk helicopter.

You are right; I thought the both types were one who both had firepower and cargo capacity but they have one transport and one gunship.
They also have the dragon who is more like a C-130 gunship with lots of guns so I mixed the types up.

[Tsu'roen]

The Dragon was meant to be something like the B-17 Flying Fortress of WWII

[Kaltxì Palulukan!]

The difference is like between an Apache and a Black Hawk helicopter.

That was downright poetic.

They do look a lot alike when they are swarming you, and both of them have the cannons, but the Scorpions have the nose-mounted 50 cals, and those massive extra "side arms" that are loaded-to-bear with more missiles, where the Sampson has the "detachable door gun" and a smaller rocket array where the front mounted machine guns are on the Scorp.

Cookies for everyone. I like this discussion.

[Kaltxì Palulukan!]

Here two front views that show the difference

As the Joker once said to a close friend . . . "You . . . complete me." More cookies!

[Kätsyín te Zotxekay Tsyal’itan]

Yup, now I see it. Like I said, I was out of it last night. Now that I look at them in detail, I remember the differences. Thanks Tsu'roen.

[Toruk Makto]

MODERATOR: POST WITH COPYRIGHTED IMAGES WAS REMOVED.  PLEASE DO NOT POST MATERIAL FROM PIRATED SOURCES ON THESE FORUMS.  THANKS.

[Tsu'roen]

OK these are all cropped from published images

Samson:





Scorpion:

[MaTe]

thanks, this is the first time I've noticed that those are 2 different models. I thought they just add extra wings to mount weapons.
Also dragon carrier 10 suites inside - would be way better in combat without that cargo capacity...

Does anyone really believes that RDA will care about UN or whatever after events in the movie and think twice before bringing weapons? I don't
Also it's stated that they do have better designs, they just have chosen to use old ones as these are more cost-effective for long-term operation.