Demons - what are they?

Started by Säfpìltu, April 04, 2011, 03:03:40 PM

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Teylar Ta Palulukankelku

Quote from: ExLibrisMortis on December 18, 2011, 05:35:40 PM
Honestly to come up with a definitive answer will be beyond us, or anyone that isn't Cameron. As ultimately, he is the one that controls what they think or how their culture is. We can definitely make good guesses, or come up with answers that we believe to be fact, but its not going to be correct until Cameron states specifically.

Oe omum. Still, i believe that until we are proven otherwise we are free to guess as wildly as we can  :P!

Quote from: Carborundum on December 19, 2011, 01:43:44 PM
I created a new thread over in Science where we can continue our off-topic discussion about facts.

I'm glad someone took the initiative to create a new thread about this  :). It seems people on this forum rarely do that when a thread goes off topic  :-\. Funny choice of name for the thread, too, ma Carborundum  ;D!
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Teylar Ta Palulukankelku

#61
Just a thought that crossed my mind: I know i'm looking at this from a human perspective (which is the only perspective i can fully understand right now.) and that the Na'vi may or may not view things differently, but i'd find it hard to believe that anyone (Na'vi included) would give reference to something that doesn't exist or is presumed to exist, i.e: Dragons have long been a big part of Chinese culture and (i assume) many Chinese people have given reference to dragons when speaking of certain things, i.e. ``He had the might of a dragon.´´. Now, why would you give reference to something that doesn't exist/you don't believe exists, since if there's nothing tangible to make reference to, the one you're speaking to while making the reference will not understand what you mean:

``He was fast and strong like a Hubba-Bubba!´´
``Ah, i see... What's a Hubba-Bubba  ????´´

Hahaha  ;D!
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Lolet

People say things like, "He's such an ogre", but that doesn't mean they believe in them.

ExLibrisMortis

But you understand what an ogre is based on certain cultural reference. And the term ogre was an actual believe thing, although the meaning of ogre has changed over the year, what Teylar is saying had a lot of merit actually.

But remember, the Na'vi language, and far as human understanding is, is based on Human past. We associate the meaning of demon to a word that most closely fits our definition of demon.

Teylar Ta Palulukankelku

#64
Quote from: Lolet te MaticayPeople say things like, "He's such an ogre", but that doesn't mean they believe in them.

Quote from: ExLibrisMortisBut you understand what an ogre is based on certain cultural reference. And the term ogre was an actual believe thing, although the meaning of ogre has changed over the year, what Teylar is saying had a lot of merit actually.

But remember, the Na'vi language, and far as human understanding is, is based on Human past. We associate the meaning of demon to a word that most closely fits our definition of demon.

True, ma Lolet  :): I believe you can give reference to something you don't think exist, like many atheists and agnostics (Myself included; I'm an agnostic.) saying ``Oh my god!´´ even though they don't believe there is a god (No offense to you, considering you are Christian.).

You understood perfectly what i was trying to say, ma ELM  :). And thank you for your appreciation  :)!

Do you think this may be the case with the Na'vi, that they give reference to demons as something they don't believe in anymore but still is a part of their remembered cultural history  ????
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Vawm tsamsiyu

Or the na'vi see demons like we see ghosts, some Belive in them some don't but we can still compare people/things to them. Like "he's stealthy and silent as a ghost"
they killed the [you] tag

Teylar Ta Palulukankelku

Quote from: Vawm tsamsiyu on December 30, 2011, 08:44:42 AM
Or the na'vi see demons like we see ghosts, some Believe in them some don't but we can still compare people/things to them. Like "he's stealthy and silent as a ghost"

Basically the theory i had. Hmm, perhaps  :-\.

And sorry about the correction. I just couldn't resist  :P ;D.
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Human No More

Of course, there's also the question of translation accuracy - for example, skxawng does not mean 'moron' by any stretch of imagination, there just isn't a human concept that fits without being an entire sentence or more mapped to a single word.
"I can barely remember my old life. I don't know who I am any more."

HNM, not 'Human' :)

Na'vi tattoo:
1 | 2 (finished) | 3
ToS: Human No More
dA
Personal site coming soon(ish

"God was invented to explain mystery. God is always invented to explain those things that you do not understand."
- Richard P. Feynman

Reykoveyzä te Werufalä Haflak'ite

Yeah, I noticed th kawng means evil. So skxawng has something to do with evil?
Irayo, ma frapo, ma oeyä smuke sì ma oeyä smukan.
Vivar 'ivong Na'vi! Eywa ayngahu!



*if i make a mistake in any of my Na'vi, please correct me :)

Tirea Aean

#69
Quote from: Reykoveyzä te Weru'falä Haflak'ite on January 25, 2012, 09:35:30 AM
Yeah, I noticed th kawng means evil. So skxawng has something to do with evil?

I dont think so. you dont hav to be evil to be an idiot ;)

and k -> kx change seems unlikely.

Not at all saying it is impossible, interesting observation that I have also thought of before

Swoka Swizaw

My standing belief is that a "demon" to the Na'vi, who would never refer to something like apparitions to explain things as the tirea is a "physical" extention of Pandora, first thought of a demon as a scourge. For these forest-dwelling blue monkeys, txep could explain this "scourge." I've given example of this before, that in the language, the word for demon, vrrtep, could be examined, ad hoc, as the ((yet to be recognized) leniting) pejorative prefix vrr- + txep, fire. ["Vrr-" fuses 'ìn to create the word vrrìn. See? It lenits. Just sayin'.]

Anyway, to me, fire is the perfect way to explain the first concepts of "demon" which became a way to explain any scourge upon the People and Pandora. It's also funny HOW fire plays into Jake and Neytiri's first meeting...

Teylar Ta Palulukankelku

Quote from: Ìngkoruptusì on January 26, 2012, 04:19:54 PM
My standing belief is that a "demon" to the Na'vi, who would never refer to something like apparitions to explain things as the tirea is a "physical" extention of Pandora, first thought of a demon as a scourge. For these forest-dwelling blue monkeys, txep could explain this "scourge." I've given example of this before, that in the language, the word for demon, vrrtep, could be examined, ad hoc, as the ((yet to be recognized) leniting) pejorative prefix vrr- + txep, fire. ["Vrr-" fuses 'ìn to create the word vrrìn. See? It lenits. Just sayin'.]

Anyway, to me, fire is the perfect way to explain the first concepts of "demon" which became a way to explain any scourge upon the People and Pandora. It's also funny HOW fire plays into Jake and Neytiri's first meeting...

Vrrìn means ``Being busy with a task one thinks is of a negative nature´´ (To put it in the most descriptive form  :P.), right  ????

And i've never thought about that regarding Jake and Neytiri's first meeting before  ;D! That's some funny irony you found there, ma tsmukan  ;D!

Quote from: Neytiri Te Tskaha Mo'at'iteFayvrrtep!

Oeru txoa livu, ma Neytiri, but you said it wrong  ::). I believe what you meant was:

Quote from: Neytiri Te Tskaha Mo'at'iteFayvrrtxep!

Lol  :P ;D!
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Tirea Aean

HRH


well I gotta say that the "vrr+ +txep = vrrtep; vrr+ + 'ìn = vrrìn" idea is most certainly clever if nothin else.

Kamean

Quote from: Tirea Aean on January 27, 2012, 02:38:04 PM
HRH


well I gotta say that the "vrr+ +txep = vrrtep; vrr+ + 'ìn = vrrìn" idea is most certainly clever if nothin else.
Mllte! ;D
Tse'a ngal ke'ut a krr fra'uti kame.


Teylar Ta Palulukankelku

Quote from: Kamean on January 27, 2012, 02:49:38 PM
Quote from: Tirea Aean on January 27, 2012, 02:38:04 PM
HRH


well I gotta say that the "vrr+ +txep = vrrtep; vrr+ + 'ìn = vrrìn" idea is most certainly clever if nothin else.
Mllte! ;D

Oe mllteie nìteng  :)!
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Swoka Swizaw

#75
Hmm...I never expected that to get the response it did. Tewti.

"Ad hocking" this stuff is fun, to be honest. Certain words have been with us since the beginning, like vitra and Na'vi, so taking a little more consideration of them as to how they MIGHT have emerged is interesting, at least to me. The first, "vitra," I've described and will, here, if requested. Taronyu (is he still around?) liked the idea. The second, "Na'vi," I gave a little thought to and came up with the ad hoc description of the word being a fusion of na'rìng, forest, plus -vi to equal "a little piece of the forest," or Pandora, as it's all a bloody forest. They were called Tsumongwi, correct? Perhaps, they decided to call themselves something else. Anyway... ;D

(I should also point out that Txur'Itan came up with my first idea about "vrr+ + txep" on the first page, BUT didn't make the leniting connection. He or she had his or her own good, original idea, pertaining to prr, though. This make me think that we should promote this idea and suggest it to Frommer.)

Teylar Ta Palulukankelku

``Ad hocking´´  ???? ``Tsumongwi´´  ???? And what does that ``-vi´´ you're referring to mean  ????

I think you have the right to your own opinion but personally i find it far more likely that Na'vi is a fusion of na (``like, as´´), which would make the meaning of Na'vi very similar to Homo in Homo Sapiens (Homo is Latin and means ``like, as´´, just like na.), and that ``-vi´´-affix you're referring to (I really gotta start studying more Na'vi  :P.).

What do you guys think  ????
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Teylar Ta Palulukankelku

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Kamean

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