Differences between Avatar bodies and Na'vi

[Tsu'roen]

In this picture you can see that the male Na'vi have the queue attached high up on their skull like Neytiri and not close to the neck like on the Avatar.

[Tìng Eywatikìte'e]

The queue placement probably has to do with a different brain. While their brains must be similar to a degree for something like the Avatar program to work, things could be in different places. The queue is controlled by a lobe not found in the human brain, so it was the most difficult part of the program. Do to the placement on the Avatar, my guess is that the lobe control queue is closely linked to the cerebellum or limbic system. Both are considered to be the oldest parts of our brain and go way back in our evolutionary history. The cerebellum deals with cordination, balance, and what not, while the limbic system deals with emotion. Since the majority of the animals we've seen have a queue we can assume it also developed rather early in their evolution and is a core part of their brain structrue, thus it probably would be located near the other older parts of their brain, i.e. their equvilance of the cerebellum and limbic systems.

Of course, this is a rather rushed theory, and I'm by no means a neurology expert. I would loooove to see a picture of a Na'vi brain though!

[kintìomum]

I guess you'll have to wait till the DVD comes into stores (or the early delivery with 1-2 days before official release) before you're able to get a "good" picture of a brain.
The one I'm talking about -and would also be very interested in- is from the scene when Jake and Norm enter their Avatars for the first time. There we'd actually not only have the Na'vi brainscan but a human/Avatar brain next to it...

[Tsu'roen]

The queue placement probably has to do with a different brain. While their brains must be similar to a degree for something like the Avatar program to work, things could be in different places. The queue is controlled by a lobe not found in the human brain, so it was the most difficult part of the program. Do to the placement on the Avatar, my guess is that the lobe control queue is closely linked to the cerebellum or limbic system. Both are considered to be the oldest parts of our brain and go way back in our evolutionary history. The cerebellum deals with cordination, balance, and what not, while the limbic system deals with emotion. Since the majority of the animals we've seen have a queue we can assume it also developed rather early in their evolution and is a core part of their brain structrue, thus it probably would be located near the other older parts of their brain, i.e. their equvilance of the cerebellum and limbic systems.

Of course, this is a rather rushed theory, and I'm by no means a neurology expert. I would loooove to see a picture of a Na'vi brain though!

I think that makes alot sense.

I guess you'll have to wait till the DVD comes into stores (or the early delivery with 1-2 days before official release) before you're able to get a "good" picture of a brain.
The one I'm talking about -and would also be very interested in- is from the scene when Jake and Norm enter their Avatars for the first time. There we'd actually not only have the Na'vi brainscan but a human/Avatar brain next to it...

No, there you only have the comparison between Jake's (human) and his Avatar brain. But there was no Na'vi brain scan shown.

[kintìomum]

Dangit! You're right...

[Na'ríng Tsmuke]

Anyway, I'm interested in feedback on the smell thing.  Let me try to clarify a little.

I'm not saying one or the other is correct, only that either is possible at this point.  I haven't seen anything that mentions avatar scent other than Eytukan's line in the movie.  So unless there is something else out there, that's all we have to go on.

That being the case, Eytukan's line seems to be ambiguous.  It could easily mean the avatar naturally carries an alien smell.  But it could also be referring to whatever smells come with Jake's human clothing and the time spent in the human environment.  A dip in a river and trip through the forest isn't going to remove all that lingering scent.

Not spreading misinformation seems to be a big thing around here.  I'm only pointing out that if we really only have the movie reference to smell to go by, I don't think there is enough to rule out either possibility.

Could it be that, like we humans (do), the Na'vi turn-up/wrinkle their nose as a sign of disgust, not necessarily a sign of a truly offensive smell. Just a thought, as I know I've done it myself at something or someone I don't approve of, and the Na'vi do not approve of Jake being at hometree. Just a different perspective for you to ponder.

[Na'ríng Tsmuke]

The queue placement probably has to do with a different brain. While their brains must be similar to a degree for something like the Avatar program to work, things could be in different places. The queue is controlled by a lobe not found in the human brain, so it was the most difficult part of the program. Do to the placement on the Avatar, my guess is that the lobe control queue is closely linked to the cerebellum or limbic system. Both are considered to be the oldest parts of our brain and go way back in our evolutionary history. The cerebellum deals with cordination, balance, and what not, while the limbic system deals with emotion. Since the majority of the animals we've seen have a queue we can assume it also developed rather early in their evolution and is a core part of their brain structrue, thus it probably would be located near the other older parts of their brain, i.e. their equvilance of the cerebellum and limbic systems.

Of course, this is a rather rushed theory, and I'm by no means a neurology expert. I would loooove to see a picture of a Na'vi brain though!

Is it just me, or does the base of Jake's queue seem to move up during the movie??. When he first enters his Avatars body, the base of the queue is low, but by the time we get to his rallying speech at the end of the movie, the base of the queue seems much higher on his head, almost to the same point of the Na'vi.
Anyone else noticed this, or is it just the way his hair has been braided??

[Na'ríng Tsmuke]

About the smell thing , ( sorry i forgot the name of Neytiri's father ) Could he just said that to make him look bad , cuz the other Na'vi were also laughing and not like covered their ( cat-like ) nose.  And about Neytiri , for me she seems the only beautifull Na'vi of the Omaticaya , like when they first got to Hometree ( when Jake was called a 'demon' ) i started focussing ( dont get me wrong ) on the female Na'vi's  , they didnt looked as beautifull( for me then ) as Neytiri , their was much greyer then Neytiri's skin colour , only the female Na'vi warriors had about the same skin colour as Neytiri.  And another thing , its weird that Na'vi die of old-age?( or is that wrong ) But Mo'at could run just fine when Hometree came down

You make some good points.
Neytiri IS the most human looking of the Omaticaya, but this has nothing to do with being Na'vi, and everything to do with making her appealing to the human viewer/audience. I saw a great interview with JC , and he explained why. Its all to do with making the viewer experience empathy with a character. If they appear too alien, you don't feel it, but if they are that little bit more human looking....well,.... None of the other Omaticaya females look anywhere near as beautiful as Neytiri, and most have much paler skin, until you get to the sea dwelling Na'vi near the end of the movie.
I don't however see whats so weird about them dying of old age. I'm in my mid 40's, have had kids and still play softball at a competitive level. Moät would be of a similar age to me, give or take a few years, so I would expect her to still be fairly nimble. We don't all need walkers once we get past 30

[Na'ríng Tsmuke]

The queue placement probably has to do with a different brain. While their brains must be similar to a degree for something like the Avatar program to work, things could be in different places. The queue is controlled by a lobe not found in the human brain, so it was the most difficult part of the program. Do to the placement on the Avatar, my guess is that the lobe control queue is closely linked to the cerebellum or limbic system. Both are considered to be the oldest parts of our brain and go way back in our evolutionary history. The cerebellum deals with cordination, balance, and what not, while the limbic system deals with emotion. Since the majority of the animals we've seen have a queue we can assume it also developed rather early in their evolution and is a core part of their brain structrue, thus it probably would be located near the other older parts of their brain, i.e. their equvilance of the cerebellum and limbic systems.

Of course, this is a rather rushed theory, and I'm by no means a neurology expert. I would loooove to see a picture of a Na'vi brain though!

Where the queue is placed on the avatar, relates to the thinnest part of the human skull. Maybe that has something to do with it??

[kintìomum]

Seems quite logical to place the queue at a position where the skull is thinner. But that would mean that either Na'vi skulls are thinner in the upper back or the placement of the queue doesn't follow that logic.

And on smell:
Yes, the movie and ASG do not really allow a conclusion on whether it is a matter of body scent, gesture or lingering smell from the circumstances the Avatar grew up in (or experienced so far).

[Na'ríng Tsmuke]

Seems quite logical to place the queue at a position where the skull is thinner. But that would mean that either Na'vi skulls are thinner in the upper back or the placement of the queue doesn't follow that logic.

And on smell:
Yes, the movie and ASG do not really allow a conclusion on whether it is a matter of body scent, gesture or lingering smell from the circumstances the Avatar grew up in (or experienced so far).

I'd go with queue placement doesn't follow with that logic, brain structure makes more sense

[Kaltxì Palulukan!]

Just saw Avatar again. Paid close attention. 4 (four) direct references to Na'vi heightened olfactory abilities. Far beyond human. Now, how do they compare to Terran animals (who can "smell fear" imagine that!), I have no idea. But they definitely smell a LOT more than humans do.

Also: was looking at queues. It looks like (IMHO--non-scientific analysis) that the Avatar queues were a LOT lower. I kept looking at Moat but could not figure out her hair style, so that was confusing--but I think whomever first said they AV queues were lower was correct. I rrrreally need to remember to look at the basketball players, and Norm the next time (probably this week). Sorry.

[Ash]

I don't however see whats so weird about them dying of old age. I'm in my mid 40's, have had kids and still play softball at a competitive level. Moät would be of a similar age to me, give or take a few years, so I would expect her to still be fairly nimble. We don't all need walkers once we get past 30

Dito - also I think that the Na'vi have an overall much healthier/active lifestyle than most poeple in western civilisation, with having to get on their feet and move if they want to do anything. So I guess they stay in good condition very long.

I rrrreally need to remember to look at the basketball players, and Norm the next time (probably this week). Sorry.

During the scene where the Na'vi on the ground including Norm do retreat there are some good profile shots of him. From there and what I remember of the Avatars on the training grounds they all seem to sport the same "hairstyle" - with the braid for the queue sitting low/close to the neck.

[kintìomum]

Hmm, perhaps the queue "starts" at the same point for all Na'vi and Avatars (basically one genetic set although one got a bit tweaked) but it's possible to create a hairstyle that makes it seem to start at a different position with the queue lying flat to the skull for the first bit?

Anyway, I'm planning to see it tonight and will have a closer look.

[Tsu'roen]

We know the precise location of the queue on Jake's Avatar (which is most likely similar for all Avatar) from the brain-scan image during his first link session.

For the exact Na'vi queue location things are a bit more fuzzy as we never see a scan of a Na'vi brain. Though if we assume (as hinted in the ASG) that the Prelemuris are their close evolutionary relatives we can get some idea of the Na'vi's queue location from theirs which is high up on the back of the skull (scene where Jake goes with Norm and Grace into the forest).
Also this location is pretty much confirmed by the image of Neytiri's Thanator ride.

[kintìomum]

It strikes me as odd to have such a sensible/important part of the body on such an exposed location.
The back off the head is the thing that's likely hitting the ground when you get unconscious (or are shoved off an edge without chance to do a leaf-fall or someone/-thing strikes your head and you aren't ducking successful).
But on the other hand it's a completely different environment so perhaps different evolutionary rules applied. Or there was something else making that position favorable.

[Kaltxì Palulukan!]

We know the precise location of the queue on Jake's Avatar (which is most likely similar for all Avatar) from the brain-scan image during his first link session.

For the exact Na'vi queue location things are a bit more fuzzy as we never see a scan of a Na'vi brain. Though if we assume (as hinted in the ASG) that the Prelemuris are their close evolutionary relatives we can get some idea of the Na'vi's queue location from theirs which is high up on the back of the skull (scene where Jake goes with Norm and Grace into the forest).
Also this location is pretty much confirmed by the image of Neytiri's Thanator ride.

Oh! One new fact I picked up last night... also; Peter (kintìomum) take a look at this tonight (if it is not too late).

GRACE. When they are trying to save her, one of the last things that happens is that her HUMAN body is bonded with Eywa by tendrils (of "grass"?) that connect to her cerebellum, or the brainstem--but I think it is the cerebellum--need a doctor here, "Is there a doctor in the house?" Note how LOW it is, right around her atlas bone. It reminds me of the Monty Python sketch of "Dead Bishops" and "Tatooed (Tawtute'd) on the back of their necks!" So, watch for that

Being that this is where Eywa chooses to make a full rope thickness connection that looks eerily like a braided queue, I am guessing that Na'vi physiology may make their cerebellum higher up in their heads? Wow, if this were true I would be the first on Terra to propose such a thing. Where's my Nobel(tm) Prize?

[kintìomum]

No, not too late. Still at work and planning with the other two bosses where to send the minions employees tomorrow.

Err, back to topic:
The place where Eywa connects Grace was interesting me since the first time I saw the movie. Or the second, which was a day later
The main link in the back, close to cerebellum and brainstem was a logical spot regarding the thickness of the human skull in most other places but it seemed a bit odd to connect there since all higher brain functions are said to happen in the frontal lobes...
Well, no one knows how far these tendrils reached into the brain
It seemed to me as if Eywa was almost repeating the link pattern first seen on the frames in the link chambers. One central spot for the head (the small frame surrounding it) and numerous other spots scattered over the body.

Update:
Now, back from a (as good as) private screening and see the load of details I found:
The queue starts at roughly the same spot for a Na'vi as it does for an Avatar. Proof of this is in the scene where Jake takes the first meal after being accepted into the tribe:
The Na'vi he is seated next to is seen from the side and there the braid starts in the middle of the back of his head. Due to his haircut the queue is clearly visible: starting at the base of the skull and being woven into the braid at roughly mid-neck.

[jasgor9]

I remember noticing a difference in the shape of their ears, but I haven't seen the movie in a while so I don't remember for sure.

[Txantslusam Skxawng]

I remember noticing a difference in the shape of their ears, but I haven't seen the movie in a while so I don't remember for sure.

What do you mean, humans all so have different ears, but Tsu'tey had a piece out of his right-ear i thought. Maybe a accident with a nantang? Palulukan is impossible.