Eywa as a new "real" god

[Tìng Eywatikìte'e]

Plus, why would you want to separate yourself from the establish religions? If you believe in the same things as those who worship Mother Earth, why break away from them? This is how you get a bunch of different sects of a religion, all worshiping the same thing, fighting each other. Better to become part of a community and learn from each other than separate yourself just for a name.

[Txur’Itan]

I think that faith, religion and belief in a deity is fine.  There are plenty of films that represent fiction based on religions of Earth.  Greek, Roman, Catholic, Wicca, Hindu and even further back references to the mother of creation...

It is not a forgone conclusion that:

Eywa - Beautiful concept, is fiction, thus not real. There is nothing to found a faith upon here.

Gaia - The name has tons of history spanning the globe theoretically as far back as Neolithic or Paleolithic times. 
Gaya India Hinduism - Root of the names of Gayasur (A Demon), and Gayatri (Mother Earth)
Gaya Nigeria - Name of a mythical settler
Gaya Korea - A confederacy in the 400's and a lineage of royalty

Gaia worship has history from the ancient middle east, including later being one of the gods in Greek mythology or older variations in more ancient faiths, and later on worshiped as a variation of the older Mother Goddess (Great Mother/Grandmother Earth).  However, people no longer significantly practice this faith in its original forms.

I hope I am not the only one who noticed this... But...

G - 2 = E  a - 2 = y  y - 2 = w  Cant figure out the dangling a

I think Cameron deliberately wanted us to draw parallels to the Gaia of our ancient history and possibly modern societal issues, more for the sake of his approach to story telling, not to start worshiping Eywa/Gaya or any faith in particular.

[Kaltxì Palulukan!]

I think it's the title of this topic that has people worried. It clearly says a "new real god" which implies using it in a new religion.

Using a different name for a god almost always leads to a new cult (Here cult meaning the worship of a certain god/person, not meant to be taken negatively). I'll use the example someone else used with the Greeks and Romans. Yes they essentially worshiped many of the same gods, but they still formed different meanings over time. Look at Aphrodite and Venus, they are the same goddess but for the Greeks she is the goddess of lust and love, while for the Romans she has the extra layer of being a maternal figure as she was the mother of the mythical founder of Rome, Aeneas.

Even if you say you're using the name to refer to the same goddess, other people may interpret it differently and over time something new will most definitely be formed from that. I think we should avoid it. On Earth let's us her Earthly names.

mmmm... salient points (yummy brain food!)

Okay--what follows is strictly following Avatar story canon, and has no place in (meta)physical reality.

One inference I saw was the possibility (in the story) of Eywa being a consciousness of literally "planetary proportions," and that quite possibly Gaia called to her sister Eywa for help (getting rid of the pesky humans--most of this comes from the Activist guide's constant reference to the "Earth healing properties" of Pandoran flora). Okay, as outlandish as that sounds, I make it only because it leads us to theorize (in a crazy-wacky kind of way) that Eywa and Gaia are distinct entities. If we did happen to land on Pandora, humans worshiping, or even admiring Eywa would be a sensible thing. And **if** the whole of it were not just a well crafted tale, it would be conceivable to respect and revere Eywa (from a distance).

But I have to agree that JC really did a LOT of homework (research) with some amazingly brilliant minds (human most likely) to create a set of correlations that added a sub-text to his story that we really should not strip-mine earth and then look for other planets to feed our corporate leader's quest for short-term-profit abuse of sentient creatures and the wholesale raping of resources galactically. (Is that even a word? If it is, did I just botch the spelling?) In the Activist guide, or maybe it was something from project 880, I seem to recall that the first attempts were to enslave (ahem, um . . . "recruit") the Na'vi into forced (cheap) labor. There are so many layers of traditional colonial expansionism woven into the story that it seems more like a retelling of any point in history "set in space."

Okay, so there are just some crazy thoughts. But if there ever is a "Church of Eywa," I want to be first in line to sell religious trinkets. I will be RICH! Rich, I tells ya!

[kintìomum]

I hope I am not the only one who noticed this... But...

G - 2 = E  a - 2 = y  y - 2 = w  Cant figure out the dangling a

"a - 2" can't go farther back, so it stays an "a"?

I seem to recall that the first attempts were to enslave (ahem, um . . . "recruit") the Na'vi into forced (cheap) labor.

It's in the ASG, an El Dorado of useful information if you read between the lines...
(Let me be the one to produce these religious bits'n'pieces and we'll both make a fortune, heh?)

The comment/comparision of the movies background to early 15th-whatever centuries colonialism is terrible obvious. Or at least was for me.
Back on topic... err, nothing to add?

[Lora Taw]

i cant possibly agree more with Tìng. I fully understand that what the original poster in this thread meant. and i understand those of you who say its not a big deal if someone refers to gaia as eywa because they are essentially the same thing. BUT you have to realize that although we, mostly hardcore avatar fans, can see where you are coming from. the media will not. they will twist things and say whatever it takes to make a story interesting. if someone goes around having a pseudo-religion based on Eywa. someone out there might think to try and make it a "legitimate" religion. which would indeed cause very very negative results for any fan of avatar especially our na'vi learning\speaking community.

so please if at all possible refrain from doing anything that someone who doesnt understand us might misinterpret as you creating a new religion based on a movie. because it could be as simple as that. it may be a pseudo religion made out of boredom for you. but you never know what an outsider might see it as and the consequences that could bring on the rest of us. you gotta be careful.

[Tìng Eywatikìte'e]

I hope I am not the only one who noticed this... But...

G - 2 = E  a - 2 = y  y - 2 = w  Cant figure out the dangling a

"a - 2" can't go farther back, so it stays an "a"?

I seem to recall that the first attempts were to enslave (ahem, um . . . "recruit") the Na'vi into forced (cheap) labor.

It's in the ASG, an El Dorado of useful information if you read between the lines...
(Let me be the one to produce these religious bits'n'pieces and we'll both make a fortune, heh?)

The comment/comparision of the movies background to early 15th-whatever centuries colonialism is terrible obvious. Or at least was for me.
Back on topic... err, nothing to add?

A little off topic, but I must point out that there was a lot more colonialism than that time period. Remember the Empires lasted until WWII. Also there are forms of it going on today that we can't ignore (Example: China in Tibet). Ignoring the modern equivalences in the story and only observing the past is a way of skipping over the message.

Anywho, back on topic.

Exactly, it doesn't matter how well you're intentions start, someone will misinterpret them. Whether it be the story hungry media, or someone with the power to make it something real. We don't want either of those.

[Alwin]

(I'm a she)


I didn't mean that people must start to call Gaia Eywa, I, for first, don't do that. 
My opinion is that Earth needs a religion like tyhe Na'vi's one. Think about it. We have only one world to stay (I'm sure I won't be alive in 2154  ) and 90% of people don't respect it, use it and throw it in the trash. I pretend to be a green girl but I can't do very many things. To love Gaia is only respect her.

This topic is only to know other opinions. Do you think Mr.Cameron would say us anything?

[Eywayä Kato]

This topic is only to know other opinions. Do you think Mr.Cameron would say us anything?

He'd be happy that we find his work so meaningful and inspiring, he'd be happy that we wish to make the world a better place, he'd be extremely creeped out by us creating a religion around his movie and, as previously stated, he'd try to distance himself and his movie from this rove of fanatics.

Edit: Don't let this stop you from pursuing this on a personal level if this is what truly brings you happiness and fulfillment.  I just wouldn't run around advertising it or calling it a religion.  Most people will find it to be weird and excessive, and other Avatar fans don't really want this weird and excessive thing associated with them.

[Alwin]

I think that the right topic title should be "How Eywa would change our world" or something on this way...

[Tìng Eywatikìte'e]

I'm just saying that we already have such religions on this planet. Wiccan, Buddhism, and others that don't really have official names but are normally classed under the term Pagan. These all preach what you are talking about, along with plenty of more. Earth has these, we just have a tendency to forget about them due to growing up where other religions have the majority rule.

[Zalorticus]

(off topic) Many buddhists tend to think that buddhism is not really a religion, but a guideline for life. In fact, there are some practicing catholic priests that are buddhists.

(on topic) I feel that the religions of earth that are akin to the Na'vi's can be changed slightly to suit the needs of whoever is practicing. There is no need to create a new religion though, agreed.

[Tìng Eywatikìte'e]

(off topic) I know, I'm along those lines-an athiest with Buddist philosophies, but the majority still practice it as a religion.

On topic. Yes, many of the religions I've mentioned are very flexible. "New Age" religions allow for you to change some ideas around to fit your own needs and make it a very personal religion. You should study those, it'll probably have what you're looking for.

[Txur’Itan]

I hope I am not the only one who noticed this... But...

G - 2 = E  a - 2 = y  y - 2 = w  Cant figure out the dangling a

"a - 2" can't go farther back, so it stays an "a"? 

(Off topic) If you think like a rudimentary encoder, you line up two copies of the alphabet, and negative shift one the copies by two sticking the off shifted letters back on to the front of the order, you can see the relationship pretty clearly.

Code: [Select]

Copy 1: a b c d e f g h i j k l m n o p q u r s t u v w x y z
Copy 2: y z a b c d e f g h i j k l m n o p q u r s t u v w x


I'm just saying that we already have such religions on this planet. Wiccan, Buddhism, and others that don't really have official names but are normally classed under the term Pagan.

"Pagan" is a pejorative Judeo-Christian Term.  I doubt the vast majority of elder practitioners grouped under this term would choose to respond to the word Pagan when discussing their faith.  However, some neo-shamanistic practitioners I've met, have decided to embrace the term Pagan and accept it.  Each religion, if they had an effect on the languages of those who follow them, have words for those who do not believe the same way.

Some alternate examples include but are not limited to: Heathen, Infidel, Pagan, Gentile.

I think it is a bit clearer to speak of the particulars by referencing the Proper Noun of the faith grouping or structure if it is known.

(on topic) I feel that the religions of earth that are akin to the Na'vi's can be changed slightly to suit the needs of whoever is practicing. There is no need to create a new religion though, agreed.

That is true, to go a bit further there was no need to create any religion that exists today, it just happens to be what people wanted, and felt they had to do, so religion exists in spite of a perceived need. 

There is probably good cause for many of the contemporary faiths to be modified or unified to suit reality.  Many of the strict orthodoxies have been considered absurd by even the most devout followers sans the fanatical approach.  How many of you stone people in the street, or execute heathens on a regular basis?  Fundamentalism and fanaticism is probably left off of these threads, it is too controversial. 

I think a new faith spawned off of this movie is not likely to be respected or followed without enticing the mentally ill, like the severely depressed, or those suffering from paranoid delusions.  And a faith based in mental illness is likely to be another source of grief and pain in this world.  As it is, contemporary monotheism doctrine was seemingly written by persons with OCD.  IMO, That many contradictory rituals and rules is bound to make ordinarily sane people crazy.

On topic. Yes, many of the religions I've mentioned are very flexible. "New Age" religions allow for you to change some ideas around to fit your own needs and make it a very personal religion. You should study those, it'll probably have what you're looking for.

Seconded...

[Tìng Eywatikìte'e]

I was using the term Pagan in anthropological terms, where it refers to a number of different religions but is never meant to be taken as an insult. Most commonly it refers to the polytheists of Europe before the spread of Christianity.

I could go into a long discussion as to why other religions have started, but I shall stay away from that topic as I wouldn't want to offend any one of those who follow said religion. The point I'm trying to make is that religions are started by someone who WANTS the religion to start. I am 99.99% positive that Cameron would be horrified of a religion being founded because of his movie.

[Kaltxì Palulukan!]

I was using the term Pagan in anthropological terms, where it refers to a number of different religions but is never meant to be taken as an insult. Most commonly it refers to the polytheists of Europe before the spread of Christianity.

I could go into a long discussion as to why other religions have started, but I shall stay away from that topic as I wouldn't want to offend any one of those who follow said religion. The point I'm trying to make is that religions are started by someone who WANTS the religion to start. I am 99.99% positive that Cameron would be horrified of a religion being founded because of his movie.

Kehe zapolo! Ke'u! Oel Pagan. Oel txur Pagan, yol, nulkrr Pagan. Oel tì mikyun nìtxan. Oel tse'a aynga. Oel tslam aynga. Set Oel plltxe:

Ngal tì mikyun ne Tìng Eywatikìte'e mì fì'u tsranten. Tìng Eywatikìte'eyä txantslusam ronsem tìng txan tìngay. Kangay tìngay. Poel plltxe, ngarut sea'. Ngarut kame.

[Tìng Eywatikìte'e]

I think I understand and...thank you? 

Please provide translation, I am still skxawng.

[A. A. Aaron]

I was using the term Pagan in anthropological terms, where it refers to a number of different religions but is never meant to be taken as an insult. Most commonly it refers to the polytheists of Europe before the spread of Christianity.

I could go into a long discussion as to why other religions have started, but I shall stay away from that topic as I wouldn't want to offend any one of those who follow said religion. The point I'm trying to make is that religions are started by someone who WANTS the religion to start. I am 99.99% positive that Cameron would be horrified of a religion being founded because of his movie.

Kehe zapolo! Ke'u! Oel Pagan. Oel txur Pagan, yol, nulkrr Pagan. Oel tì mikyun nìtxan. Oel tse'a aynga. Oel tslam aynga. Set Oel plltxe:

Ngal tì mikyun ne Tìng Eywatikìte'e mì fì'u tsranten. Tìng Eywatikìte'eyä txantslusam ronsem tìng txan tìngay. Kangay tìngay. Poel plltxe, ngarut sea'. Ngarut kame.

Thank you for that! I had fun translating it

[Tìng Eywatikìte'e]

Can someone translate it for me? I think I got it right, but I could be horribly wrong. I most likely am, I have little faith in my Na'vi...

[pxan ronsem]

Wow. This thread has. . . been waaaaay too far read in to (if that makes sense to you). I don't think it's a good idea to start a new religion based off a movie, but I don't think any of us have a say in it. . . I mean if someone wants to go off worshiping a grasshopper, they can. All they have to do is file some paper work. Freedom of Religion, right? If you don't agree with it, and the majority of the form is against it then they could deny it to the press. Therefore, no one on the forms, or James Cameron or the movie, would have any affiliation with the Eywa based religion. So if there was a religion based off of Eywa then the forms can ban it if desired. The followers can create their own forms.

So well yeah. . . I think that I'm gonna read a different thread from now on. (I hope I didn't cause any harm in posting this. . . I aplogize if I did.)

[gnátxere]

if i got the translation right it reads

no offense! (nothing or not)! i-(erg) pagan. i-(erg) strong pagan, long, longer pagan. i-(erg) (acc?) ear much. i-(erg) see[physical sense] you[plural, possably all]. i-(erg) understand you[plural]. now i-(erg) speak:

you-(erg) (acc?) ear (to or towards) ting eywalikíte'e in this matter. wise mind give much truth. valid truth. he/she(non specific) speak (can't find ngarut or sea'). ngarut (same unknown word) see[spiritual sense].

if translated correctly this is a litteral translation word for word.

and a note of my own, very well spoken dustywhite. though i probably would've modified ear into hear, though i don't know how off the top of my head