Eywa: what is she? How does she work?

[Txur’Itan]

In order of Reference:

• by Norman Eywa is described as;
  
  
  
  • as the Deity of the Na'vi "Made up of all living things..."  
  • the Tree of Souls as "Their direct line to Eywa..."


• by the Na'vi Eywa referred to like a single being and given various anthropomorphism aspects;
  
  
  
  • Actively "Signs from Eywa..." or "Will of Eywa"
  • Poetically "Eye of Eywa..."
  • Judgemental "Maintains the Balance of life..." or "Does not Choose sides..."
  • Spiritually "They live within Eywa..." or "Eywa ngahu..."
• The flow of Energy is inferred to be a spiritual reference, however there is a tangible appearance of this concept related to this as when Grace, Jake and Neytiri have their connections to Eywa, The Tree of Voices, and the Tree of Souls.
• Eywa was described by Grace a Global Network, as Being like the human brain with more connections. We do not know how she verified these perceptions, or collected her data, but if she was never allowed near the Tree of Voices or Tree of Souls, then there is some data that even she did not have.

Discussions on these items can have many points of view.

I would suggest that discourse as a scientific perspective is not counter intuitive for some people, and neither is a theological perspective for others.

I am thinking that for an informed and civilised discussion on this topic to move forward, the best option is to classify your perspective, and approach to erudition on the subject.

If you have a philosophical perspective, theological perspective, a scientific perspective, follow that discussion in that context.

I think that there is room on these forums for completely divergent schools of thought on Eywa, but this forum is not the place for a debate on the validity of Religion/Faith, Philosophy or Science as an Approach to understanding Eywa.

For instance, a theological discussion would encompass the soul, the spirit, the prayer, the hymn/songs, rituals of practicing a faith, the powers of Eywa as a potentially omnipotent being.  This sort of discussion should be in a separate thread on "Eywa & Theological discussions".  

A philosophical discussion of Eywa should again be its own separate thread.  Eywa decision making, choices to intervene, the ID of Eywa. "Eywa & Philosophical discussions".

A scientific discussion would be best served by a scientific process, not a debate over the validity of the approach, or yielding to non scientific observations of scientific processes.  Scientifically, discussions should be based on observations, data, facts, theory, testing theory can only be done via observation since this is a work of fiction.  "Eywa & Analytical discussions.".

[Mithcoriel]

If you have a philosophical perspective, theological perspective, a scientific perspective, follow that discussion in that context

But I don't have a specific one of those. I made this thread to discuss which ones, or what mix of those, it might be.

I think that there is room on these forums for completely divergent schools of thought on Eywa, but this forum is not the place for a debate on the validity of Religion/Faith, Philosophy or Science as an Approach to understanding Eywa.

Why not?  Why shouldn't we debate wether Eywa was meant to be a spiritual or scientific being? That's pretty much what I intended this thread for. To discuss which parts of Eywa are theologic and which parts are scientific, and how the scientific parts work exactly. I don't see why we should split this thread up into those three pieces. It would be as if I made a thread asking, say, "Do you think Toruk prefer to eat Ikran, Na'vi, or Yerik best?" and then you suggest we split them up into one thread discussing how Toruk like to eat Ikran most, one where we discuss how they prefer Na'vi, etc. 

Are you implying that this thread would cause some heated Religion vs. Anti-religion debates? Cause I don't think this has anything to do with how religious a person really is. You can assume there's a God in real life, but that James Cameron meant for Eywa to be scientific, based on the clues of the movie, or vice versa. This isn't about the validity of religion. Avatar is a fictional and somewhat fantasy-oriented film after all. You can be a total atheist and still think Eywa's supernatural.

[Swoka Swizaw]

Are you implying that this thread would cause some heated Religion vs. Anti-religion debates? Cause I don't think this has anything to do with how religious a person really is. You can assume there's a God in real life, but that James Cameron meant for Eywa to be scientific, based on the clues of the movie, or vice versa. This isn't about the validity of religion. Avatar is a fictional and somewhat fantasy-oriented film after all. You can be a total atheist and still think Eywa's supernatural.

With this, I can agree, though the last part makes me ponder, a little bit. I suppose I still divide concepts where I shouldn't.

@ all involved: if my rants pertaining to Eywa were what have caused the suggestion for forum clusivity, it was never my hope to create any unrest. I, myself, am not religious (dogmatic). Though, Eywa's non-clusivity and proof of essense appeal to me, spiritually. For the Na'vi, She is as real as most on Earth wish any sort of divinity could be. She not only provides hope for them, but also has never given them a reason to feel a lack of connectivity. She is the quintessential core of their lives - something that one could debate many on Earth lack, but, at the same time, something that SO many on Earth have interpreted to mean something other than the connective Oneness that is Eywa's best known trait.

With Mithcoriel, I, too, feel that this thread should remain whole, as I do not feel that you can remove or seperate any and all aspects of Eywa from another. She stands as an archetype of all things for the person that seeks Her. I think to understand Eywa the best, we should attempt to find similarities to the overall concept in real life, if we can...

[Txur’Itan]

If you have a philosophical perspective, theological perspective, a scientific perspective, follow that discussion in that context

But I don't have a specific one of those. I made this thread to discuss which ones, or what mix of those, it might be.

I think that there is room on these forums for completely divergent schools of thought on Eywa, but this forum is not the place for a debate on the validity of Religion/Faith, Philosophy or Science as an Approach to understanding Eywa.

Why not?  Why shouldn't we debate wether Eywa was meant to be a spiritual or scientific being? That's pretty much what I intended this thread for. To discuss which parts of Eywa are theologic and which parts are scientific, and how the scientific parts work exactly. I don't see why we should split this thread up into those three pieces. It would be as if I made a thread asking, say, "Do you think Toruk prefer to eat Ikran, Na'vi, or Yerik best?" and then you suggest we split them up into one thread discussing how Toruk like to eat Ikran most, one where we discuss how they prefer Na'vi, etc. 

Are you implying that this thread would cause some heated Religion vs. Anti-religion debates? Cause I don't think this has anything to do with how religious a person really is. You can assume there's a God in real life, but that James Cameron meant for Eywa to be scientific, based on the clues of the movie, or vice versa. This isn't about the validity of religion. Avatar is a fictional and somewhat fantasy-oriented film after all. You can be a total atheist and still think Eywa's supernatural.

Word choice, and methods of communication is key here.

The intent of my post is suggest some things (suggest, recommend, should, could, may, might, possibly).  So, I stated an opinion, not a rule, or a fact. 

My preference is to keep the peace, and at this time, religion, spirituality, science, and philosophy unless comprehensively understood on an equal footing by everyone, is likely to get terse, and problematically immutable. Subsequently, such threads can get somewhat stressful for someone, and that almost invariably starts an argument.

So where possible, try to preface your approach as clearly as possible.  Some people may chose not to engage on a philosophical discussion if it is not their strength, and they can do so passively as a matter of offered choice, rather than mandate caused by the lack of information that would have prevented earlier and unnecessary confusion.

Are you implying that this thread would cause some heated Religion vs. Anti-religion debates? Cause I don't think this has anything to do with how religious a person really is. You can assume there's a God in real life, but that James Cameron meant for Eywa to be scientific, based on the clues of the movie, or vice versa. This isn't about the validity of religion. Avatar is a fictional and somewhat fantasy-oriented film after all. You can be a total atheist and still think Eywa's supernatural.

With this, I can agree, though the last part makes me ponder, a little bit. I suppose I still divide concepts where I shouldn't.

@ all involved: if my rants pertaining to Eywa were what have caused the suggestion for forum clusivity, it was never my hope to create any unrest. I, myself, am not religious (dogmatic). Though, Eywa's non-clusivity and proof of essense appeal to me, spiritually. For the Na'vi, She is as real as most on Earth wish any sort of divinity could be. She not only provides hope for them, but also has never given them a reason to feel a lack of connectivity. She is the quintessential core of their lives - something that one could debate many on Earth lack, but, at the same time, something that SO many on Earth have interpreted to mean something other than the connective Oneness that is Eywa's best known trait.

With Mithcoriel, I, too, feel that this thread should remain whole, as I do not feel that you can remove or seperate any and all aspects of Eywa from another. She stands as an archetype of all things for the person that seeks Her. I think to understand Eywa the best, we should attempt to find similarities to the overall concept in real life, if we can...

As I stated earlier, theological discussions on the subject of Eywa are not out of line, but I picture some discussions where Science and Theology intermingle as a bit of Oil and Water, each is used for different things, but they really are not meant to mix right now, and any disagreement on the approaches, is like throwing a match onto the slurry.

[Swoka Swizaw]

As I stated earlier, theological discussions on the subject of Eywa are not out of line, but I picture some discussions where Science and Theology intermingle as a bit of Oil and Water, each is used for different things, but they really are not meant to mix right now, and any disagreement on the approaches, is like throwing a match onto the slurry.

I understand. Though, honestly, I have (always) tried to come from a place where both CAN intermingle. Sort of a third option. It's not as though our experiences with science and/or spirit can be had without us. The only reason that these things can't go together, most of the time, is that such things make people look into themselves. It is my hope to help someone handle what discomfort he or she may feel when this occurs. It is, also, my feeling that only when people take themselves too seriously, do the matches ever fly.

I know this is off topic, to an extent...sorry. Eywa frapohu.

[Mithcoriel]

My preference is to keep the peace, and at this time, religion, spirituality, science, and philosophy unless comprehensively understood on an equal footing by everyone, is likely to get terse, and problematically immutable.

Well that's what it would be like if we were discussing real religion. But I mean, we're not. We're talking about wether a fictional entity is supernatural or scientifc. I doubt anyone would feel their religion is attacked by this. I mean, no one's gonna argue "There's no way Eywa is supernatural, cause anyone who believes in supernatural stuff is just stupid!" cause this is fictional, and what doesn't exist in our world can very well exist in the Avatar world. It's all down to Cameron's imagination. And no one's gonna argue "Eywa must be a goddess! The things she does couldn't possibly be explained by science!" cause there might be fictional science in that world that can explain it.
Well I don't know, you've got more experience on this forum than me. Maybe you saw an occasion where such a conversation did turn into a religious fight. But I didn't think it could.

[Txur’Itan]

My preference is to keep the peace, and at this time, religion, spirituality, science, and philosophy unless comprehensively understood on an equal footing by everyone, is likely to get terse, and problematically immutable.

Well that's what it would be like if we were discussing real religion. But I mean, we're not. We're talking about wether a fictional entity is supernatural or scientifc. I doubt anyone would feel their religion is attacked by this. I mean, no one's gonna argue "There's no way Eywa is supernatural, cause anyone who believes in supernatural stuff is just stupid!" cause this is fictional, and what doesn't exist in our world can very well exist in the Avatar world. It's all down to Cameron's imagination. And no one's gonna argue "Eywa must be a goddess! The things she does couldn't possibly be explained by science!" cause there might be fictional science in that world that can explain it.
Well I don't know, you've got more experience on this forum than me. Maybe you saw an occasion where such a conversation did turn into a religious fight. But I didn't think it could.

Given ample time all things become possible...  I am being cautious, and providing guidelines, as preparation, my experience in such occurrences exceeds the age of this forum.  People will find justification for their frustrations in the most benign of topics.  I once had two friends get into a heated argument about patch policy for a video game neither one of them played anymore...

[Mithcoriel]

Well anyway, here's another question I wonder about Eywa: How intelligent is she?

Grace says she's got more connection than the human brain, so she'd be smarter than a human. But it goes even further: A human needs a lot of brain spaces for controlling their body, controlling basic function such as hearbeat or feeling hungry, understanding sensory input from the eyes and other organs,...instincts...personality... most of those Eywa might not need. Sensory input--maybe, in some form, since the animals, or at least the Na'vi, communicate with her after all. Instincts? I doubt it. That's something only species which reproduce need, since the kids can't actively learn everything from their parents. Eywa has her memories ("experience") and intelligence for that. Personality? She might have something along those lines, but that sort of implies a degree of "individualism". But she's everything, so I don't know about that.

Well, bottom line, that frees up a lot more neural connections for extra intelligence of some sort, no?

[Txur’Itan]

Off-topic:
You necro posted, but it is in topic, so not a terribly big deal.

ON-TOPIC:
All of Eywa's abilities, understanding, intelligence, ability communicate are still not clearly understood.  It is not clear why she has been given a gender other than an unclarified aspect of Na'vi culture associated with motherhood (Na'vi refer to her as the Great mother as an alternative name to Eywa in dialog).

Note: Eywa is philosophically similar to Gaia, but more tangible as represented in the movie Avatar, only the Na'vi, AVTR and the Creatures of Pandora can communicate with her. 

The movie Avatar reveals her ability to understand Jakes request for help with the fight against humans, and reveals her ability to command all of the creatures to attack in a discriminant fashion against a common foe to life on Pandora, and suggests through Jake's and Neytiri's dialog that Eywa may have selectively targeted Jake to meet with the Omatikaya by giving "sings from Eywa".

Everything beyond that is purely speculative, subject to interpretation, and especially subject to retcon.

[Mithcoriel]

Physical, confirmed: As mentioned by Grace, Eywa has at least a biological reality, as she is apparently a brain made of the trees on pandora. Creatures can communicate to her via tsahaylu, and upload memories. And their consciousnesses continue to exist in her after they die. She must have some control over the life on Pandora, as she is able to "keep the balance of life" and to send the animals to Jake's aid.
Spiritual, speculative: It seems to me Cameron intended for Eywa to be completely scientific, but since there are still unanswered questions ("how did Eywa do this and that?"), some fans speculate that there might be a non-physical, supernatural part to her, which e.g. allowed her see who Jake was and choose him before she'd ever seen his memories via tsahaylu. If this is true it would make her more like the gods we know, but as I said, that's pure speculation.