Author Topic: feathers  (Read 7414 times)

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Offline ZenMondo

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Re: feathers
« Reply #60 on: November 03, 2011, 05:17:48 am »
Well just because we have not seen Birds on the screen does not mean there are no birds.  We have seen a very limited amount of Pandoran Fauna.  The ASG only lists 21 species of Fauna (not all seen on screen).  There is no reason to believe this is an exhaustive list of Pandora's biodiversity. If we can posit unseen plants to provide what is very obviously in a real world perspective something modeled on feathers, why can't we posit unseen animals?  Again for a real world perspective feathers and fur take a lot more to render with computer graphics so that may be a reason why in this first film all the CG creatures are smooth-skinned.

The Na'vi seem to use what appear to be feathers in their crafts. On Earth, feathers only come from birds, in fact being feathered is the first defining characteristic of the Class Ave. So if there is a feathered animal on Pandora we would probably call them birds.  Also we saw a small region of the moon.  We know the Na'vi have contact with other tribes and share a common language, it is reasonable to assume that trade occurs. Perhaps the Omaticaya get feathers from trade of another tribe that lives in a part of Pandora that birds are plentiful that we have not seen yet.

Offline Human No More

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Re: feathers
« Reply #61 on: November 13, 2011, 05:41:32 pm »
That's unlikely - feathers and fur have been able to be rendered for YEARS, and realistic hair (that moves and lets some light through) is just as hard - feathers DO appear in small places, and look just as good  as the rest of the film. Since it's not rendered in realtime, but took hours per frame anyway, there's no reason to leave something out for detail reasons.
A more realistic one form a filmmaking point of view is that they just couldn't make it any longer, or just had no context to show them in.
« Last Edit: November 13, 2011, 05:43:07 pm by Human No More »
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Offline Seze Mune

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Re: feathers
« Reply #62 on: November 13, 2011, 07:47:05 pm »
Well just because we have not seen Birds on the screen does not mean there are no birds.  We have seen a very limited amount of Pandoran Fauna.  The ASG only lists 21 species of Fauna (not all seen on screen).  There is no reason to believe this is an exhaustive list of Pandora's biodiversity. If we can posit unseen plants to provide what is very obviously in a real world perspective something modeled on feathers, why can't we posit unseen animals?  Again for a real world perspective feathers and fur take a lot more to render with computer graphics so that may be a reason why in this first film all the CG creatures are smooth-skinned.

Technically you're correct.  You could further state that even on earth we haven't discovered and catalogued every living species of anything, either. {Witness the Yeti, she says, tongue firmly in cheek}  However, given the ubiquity of birdlife in Terran rainforests and the similarity of uses of feathers in their resident tribes, I believe the absence of visible sources of the feathered ornaments is a minor film gaffe.  Not so much with the furry things, though, because we don't really see any fur being used within the film, do we?  I have the feeling this will be somewhat corrected in the next sequel due to the amount of discussion on it.

The Na'vi seem to use what appear to be feathers in their crafts. On Earth, feathers only come from birds, in fact being feathered is the first defining characteristic of the Class Ave. So if there is a feathered animal on Pandora we would probably call them birds.  Also we saw a small region of the moon.  We know the Na'vi have contact with other tribes and share a common language, it is reasonable to assume that trade occurs. Perhaps the Omaticaya get feathers from trade of another tribe that lives in a part of Pandora that birds are plentiful that we have not seen yet.

Again, it begs the question of a lush rainforest with the absence of feathered things.  Most of the fauna on Pandora has a decidedly prehistoric look, even the ikrans.  If they were basing the fauna on prehistoric earth - which is arguable but plausible - then why weren't there any flying feathered dinosaurs like these:






Offline Kamean

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Re: feathers
« Reply #63 on: November 14, 2011, 09:42:05 am »
Quote
flying feathered dinosaurs like these:
This is Archaeopteryx, first known feathered creature in the world. :)
Tse'a ngal ke'ut a krr fra'uti kame.


Offline Seze Mune

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Re: feathers
« Reply #64 on: November 14, 2011, 07:58:55 pm »
You may be correct.  I don't know for sure.

Offline Kamean

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Re: feathers
« Reply #65 on: November 15, 2011, 09:09:48 am »
Archaeopteryx are feathered dinosaur. Really. :)
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Offline Seze Mune

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Re: feathers
« Reply #66 on: November 15, 2011, 06:36:23 pm »
Archaeopteryx are feathered dinosaur. Really. :)

I believe it.  It's just that I think they could have built something like this into Avatar and they didn't.  It think of it has a bit of an omission by mistake.

Offline Kamean

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Re: feathers
« Reply #67 on: November 16, 2011, 09:40:12 am »
Maybe in Avatar II & III... :)
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Offline Seze Mune

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Re: feathers
« Reply #68 on: November 16, 2011, 12:50:07 pm »
Maybe in Avatar II & III... :)

Tsunslu. :)

Offline Human No More

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Re: feathers
« Reply #69 on: November 26, 2011, 08:04:41 pm »
Archaeopteryx are feathered dinosaur. Really. :)

I believe it.  It's just that I think they could have built something like this into Avatar and they didn't.  It think of it has a bit of an omission by mistake.
It would have necessitated removing something more important. There are several creatures that have been outlined that were also not seen.
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Offline Nìmwey

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Re: feathers
« Reply #70 on: June 20, 2012, 11:17:38 am »
All I know is that the creatures these feathers belong to can fly.
Not necessarily. Dinosaurs (i.e. birds) evolved advanced feathers long before they evolved flight, as even ground-bound Dromaeosaurs had quill-feathers on their arms, and their bodies were almost completely covered in the same type of feathers bird bodies are covered in.

Only the most advanced type of flight feather (asymmetrical feathers with specialized shapes) are unlikely to be found on non-flying creatures.

Non-flying feathered dinosaurs below.

And Archaeopteryx wasn't the first feathered creature, they were merely the first known "bird".
They couldn't fly like modern birds, but mostly glide, like flying squirrels, colugos and draco lizards.

And why they don't have flying feathered dinosaurs on Pandora?
Because it's an alien planet (or, well, moon ;)). They don't have sauropods, theropods, pterosaurs, giraffes, dogs or cats because it's not Earth. What I guess you mean is a "Pandoran equivalent" of "feathered dinosaurs", but still, they don't need a Pandora equivalent for everything.
Much nicer and more original to see actually unique animals that don't look like anything on Earth.
Apologies if I sound rude or "knowitall-ish", I have a tendency to do that, but it is not my intention. ;)
« Last Edit: June 25, 2012, 03:55:31 am by Nìmwey »

Offline Yawne Zize’ite

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Re: feathers
« Reply #71 on: June 21, 2012, 11:16:26 am »
Is it possible that feathered creatures don't live in Omatikaya territory? Cultures with Stone Age technology often have long-distance trading networks, and anything that must be obtained from very far away is expensive and a prominent status symbol, even if it looks like an unremarkable rock or pretty-but-inexpensive feather to us.

Offline Ateyo Te Syaksyuk

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Re: feathers
« Reply #72 on: June 22, 2012, 10:58:20 am »
Yom Yom Tastes just like 'Rrta turkey!

Yayo means bird. Feathers are present in ioi, body ornaments.
I prefer to think that birds are present but not in this particular part of the rainforest.

The ancient Hohokam and Anasazi of Arizona, depict a "hunchback" character with a flute.
Kokopeli.  Hunchback or carrying a pack of trade objects?  Yet in their desert dwellings, a number of Macaw skulls from South America have been found, as well as sea shells, suggesting LONG trade routes.

I could easily see this scenario within Pandora.

my two cents

ta ATEYO

Offline Seze Mune

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Re: feathers
« Reply #73 on: June 22, 2012, 11:14:48 am »
Is it possible that feathered creatures don't live in Omatikaya territory? Cultures with Stone Age technology often have long-distance trading networks, and anything that must be obtained from very far away is expensive and a prominent status symbol, even if it looks like an unremarkable rock or pretty-but-inexpensive feather to us.

Very possible.  Although it is suggested that Toruk Makto and Neytiri travelled long distances to gather the clans, and this is depicted in the film.  It would have been the perfect opportunity to insert a few feathered things in the background of these scenes, to show that there are in fact Pandoran sources for the feathers.  That's part of why I think it's a mistake by omission.

Offline Meuiama Tsamsiyu (Toruk Makto)

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Re: feathers
« Reply #74 on: June 22, 2012, 03:45:27 pm »
Is it possible that feathered creatures don't live in Omatikaya territory? Cultures with Stone Age technology often have long-distance trading networks, and anything that must be obtained from very far away is expensive and a prominent status symbol, even if it looks like an unremarkable rock or pretty-but-inexpensive feather to us.

Very possible.  Although it is suggested that Toruk Makto and Neytiri travelled long distances to gather the clans, and this is depicted in the film.  It would have been the perfect opportunity to insert a few feathered things in the background of these scenes, to show that there are in fact Pandoran sources for the feathers.  That's part of why I think it's a mistake by omission.

It was stated somewhere, perhaps the pandorapedia, that the helicordion plant is their feather source. The only animal it does not react to and shut into the ground tube, is the Na'vi. So it is likely another one of Eywa's Na'vi/plant-animal symbiotic relations.



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Offline Human No More

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Re: feathers
« Reply #75 on: June 25, 2012, 03:55:34 pm »
It's used for materials, but it says that they carefully harvest them and avoid taking too many. They aren't actually feathered though, it's more like a coiled fan.

It clearly does still react to their touch, as seen with Jake early on in the film.


Is it possible that feathered creatures don't live in Omatikaya territory? Cultures with Stone Age technology often have long-distance trading networks, and anything that must be obtained from very far away is expensive and a prominent status symbol, even if it looks like an unremarkable rock or pretty-but-inexpensive feather to us.

Very possible.  Although it is suggested that Toruk Makto and Neytiri travelled long distances to gather the clans, and this is depicted in the film.  It would have been the perfect opportunity to insert a few feathered things in the background of these scenes, to show that there are in fact Pandoran sources for the feathers.  That's part of why I think it's a mistake by omission.
Sounds plausible - those cliffs by the sea would be an ideal location for many bird species, although I think that the forest having no bird species would be less likely, even if there were fewer due to predation from stingbats, ikran, etc.
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