How does Toruk choose its rider?

[Lightna]

I was thinking while watching the movie again and was watching the part of when Jake and Neytiri had to outfly Toruk. There is a moment after Jake and Neytiri had flown through the hole in that "wall" of vines that was too small for Toruk to fly through. Toruk seemed to looking intently at Jake before admitting defeat and flying away. Later on after the mobile lab was moved, Toruk has to have been surprised when the very same person got the drop on him. Is this some way that Toruk chooses its rider or did Eywa send Toruk to test Jake?

Possible criteria for Toruk's rider:

• Able to outfly Toruk after it attempted to get the drop on its prey. (In this case, a Na'vi.)
• The very same Na'vi seeks Toruk and beats Toruk at its own game.

[hii tutee]

I really dont know what would be the point when Toruk chooses someone, but my idea was that when Jake drops down on him, to me that doesn't really seem like Toruk chooses him, right? Toruk is taken by surprise, was my idea.
But what you say makes sense too, that he knows that Jake defeated him earlier.

[Mithcoriel]

Toruk probably did choose Jake, seeing as Neytiri mentions about the previous Toruk Makto "Toruk chose him". Plus the deleted scene where Jake sees in his vision that Toruk is his spirit animal. Plus the fact that otherwise it would just be far too easy to become Toruk Makto. The critics like to say: "What, did no one ever think of that obvious solution? Jump on its back??"

[Ash]

When Toruk first drops out of the sky while Neytiri and Jake are hunting - doesn't he go straight for Jake? I reckon this would fit the bill like an Ikran choosing(or accepting the challenge) by "trying to kill you". If you survive, that is 

[Tsa'räni]

We don't really know how it works, and there are problems with both lines of thinking.  I think what it requires is a combination of the two.

If toruk does the choosing and it is taken as choosing when he attacks Jake, then toruk would never attack a Na'vi he wasn't choosing.  So they would hardly ever attack Na'vi (doesn't make much sense for an apex predator), or they would attack Na'vi as expected, but it would always be considered being chosen.  Neither of those makes much sense.

So I propose this idea...

Seeing as toruk is a central part of the culture, no Na'vi would consider being toruk makto unless two things happened.

1.) Their spirit animal was toruk.
2.) Toruk chose them in some way.

In this way, attacks from toruk can happen and don't need to be seen as necessarily being chosen, either by the one being attacked or by all Na'vi.  This is really the only way I've thought of that you don't end up running into a logic break (with the information we've got).

[Human No More]

AFAIK, the Toruk Jake finds is never specifically mentioned as the same one that attacked him and Neytiri. I've wondered about it before though and think it very well could be.
As for choosing its rider (another interesting thought, the Toruk's gender is unknown), I'd say allowing Jake to ride and not resisting the bond, or just eating him, would count as choosing him. I'm guessing Toruk are fairly intelligent, they could probably understand what needed to be done.

[Eywal ngaru teing oeti]

Toruk went after Jake because his spirit animal was a Toruk. In the script, but not in the movie, during the ceremony Jake found out what his spirit animal was, a Toruk. The ceremony in the Navi culture is where a boy becomes a man by undergoing trance like state and finding his spirit animal. The Toruk attacked Jake cause he sensed the Toruk within Jake and wanted to kill him. Kinda like how they find an ikran. They would know if an ikran had choosen them, by the ikran attacking and trying to kill that person.

As for, if it was the same Toruk, it is. There many Toruks throughout Pandora, where they have their own territory.

Here's a question for those on how Jake bonded with the Toruk. Why would Toruk ever need to look up when he is the top predator of the skies?

[ShadowedSin]

The ceremony you mention is the dream hunt, or the Uniltaron.

[Ash]

Taking the dreamhunt into consideration (as in Toruk having to show up there as spirit animal) is a solid second component to Toruk choosing/attacking an individual of determining an aspiring Toruk makto, I think.
I can imagine another way as well, which would be more subtle but fit Na'vi culture, too: As Neytiri does tell Jake "you have to feel it inside"(something like this) when he is to choose his Ikran. This would not be something to really put your finger on, but for a Na'vi feeling a kind of inner response could be reason enough to differentiate between being chosen and not simply being attacked for dinner by Toruk.

Regarding the Toruk we see being the same both times - if I remember correctly the Toruk in general do have a strong "get off my lawn"-attitude towards their fellows, which would reduce their number in a certain area. Now adding that Jake probably would have started to search for a Toruk near where he first met one, it would raise the chance of this one being the same.
(To the blue-rayers - could you check out the markings on the Toruks back? With the Ikran they are often very different - this could be true for the Toruk as well, so if the Toruk do have exactly the same pattern on both occasions it would raise the chance that we do see the same individual).

[TrayNavi]

maybe... JUST maybe....
i dont think toruk needs to choose its rider.

[Ash]

The need may be debatable, yes. But since Neytiri does put such a strong emphasis on it having happened only five times since a long time that Toruk chose a rider I'd assume that this is what happened here as well. Also, as a Toruk is much more similar to an Ikran in almost every aspect than to a direhorse, again I'd assume that the workings of the bond would be closer to like they are with Ikran than with the direhorses...

[Mithcoriel]

Toruk mate for life, as I suspect Ikran do as well. My guess is that that is closely connected to the fact that they allow only one rider to ride with them. So my guess would be the Toruk is also one of those animals that have only one rider.

Seeing as toruk is a central part of the culture, no Na'vi would consider being toruk makto unless two things happened.

1.) Their spirit animal was toruk.
2.) Toruk chose them in some way.

In this way, attacks from toruk can happen and don't need to be seen as necessarily being chosen, either by the one being attacked or by all Na'vi.  This is really the only way I've thought of that you don't end up running into a logic break (with the information we've got).

What's wrong with the idea that sometimes a Toruk tries to kill a Na'vi without having chosen him? Why do the Na'vi have to know for certain if the Toruk chose them? They could just try to jump on the Toruk's back and fail to control it, (and die), then they'd know that they weren't really chosen. I mean that doesn't pose a problem to logic.

[Fpilfyaranyu]

I have a feeling that the Na'vi have a lot of fear and respect for Toruk, and Toruk would be a prominent figure in their lore.  I think Jake's bonding was less 'thinking outside the box' and more about the Na'vi respecting Toruk as the top predator in their ecosystem, and therefore most Na'vi just wouldn't attempt to bond with him/her.

In the narration, Jake says that Toruk Makto only comes in times of great trouble or war.  I think the bonding is more a necessity than a choice - like Eywa influenced the wild creatures to attack, maybe She influenced Toruk (and gave Jake a hand).

What's their lifespan and reproduction like, anyway?  Is it a certain timeframe, or are they affected by certain events?  That would be a huge factor on whether they only take one rider or not.

[delen66]

i have noticed Toruk behaves as a partner not as a mere mount. it seems it only allows Jake to ride it for the sake of pandora and EYWA

[Ku'rända]

Honestly I figured Toruk was more or less looking for lunch, rather than 'accepting' a challenge that had not even been made (Jake and his ikran faced off, which was how the challenge was made) Jake just jumped on Toruk's back and bonded with it before Toruk could really react. 

[Zanither]

the question is once you bond with an animal, bit toruk or not.. can they reject you?

[MIPP]

Well... I think that the Toruk may choose many riders (for example, he may try to kill any Na'vi) but only a crazy one would try to bond with a Toruk... and crazy is not enough... I think he must be crazy and desperate, like Jake was 

[Uriuujìn]

the question is once you bond with an animal, be it toruk or not.. can they reject you?

There are two possibilities, in my thinking, to answer this question. The animal could reject the bond, which would make sense because the Ikran are obviously more intelligent than the direhorses. The other option, which I think may be more likely, is that to bond with an animal that is smarter than the direhorse, like an Ikran, palulukan, what have you, their nervous systems have to be more in tune with yours, like how the Avatars have to have similar nervous systems to the Drivers. This isn't a perfect comparison, true, but it would make sense. Only someone who was similar enough to the Toruk would be physically able to bond with it. It could be found out by looking at, oh I don't know, someone's Spirit Animal, perhaps?

Just a couple ideas. ^_^ Gaia be with you all

-Uriuujìn

[Human No More]

I think it's closer that any Na'vi might be able to make tsaheylu with Toruk, but nothing would actually happen - the bond is a mutual one and Toruk needs to understand the need for it to happen and not resist it.

[true Navi]

I was thinking while watching the movie again and was watching the part of when Jake and Neytiri had to outfly Toruk. There is a moment after Jake and Neytiri had flown through the hole in that "wall" of vines that was too small for Toruk to fly through. Toruk seemed to looking intently at Jake before admitting defeat and flying away. Later on after the mobile lab was moved, Toruk has to have been surprised when the very same person got the drop on him. Is this some way that Toruk chooses its rider or did Eywa send Toruk to test Jake?

Possible criteria for Toruk's rider:

• Able to outfly Toruk after it attempted to get the drop on its prey. (In this case, a Na'vi.)
• The very same Na'vi seeks Toruk and beats Toruk at its own game.

remember when seed stopped neytiri from killing jake, Eywa must have sent seed and Eywa can link bond with toruk to therefore if Eywa gave sign to not kill jake Eywa also send toruk to jake for trial, ''is he worthy''