Is there a Na'Vi civilization?

[Elektrolurch]

I've thought about it several times now, and have to say: There is NO Na'vi civilization.

['Ì'awn Menari]

I've thought about it several times now, and have to say: There is NO Na'vi civilization.

mawe, mawe.  i think they are just talking about civilization in general now. 

[Elektrolurch]

Yeah, but I've asked if the Na'vi had a civilization or not.

I think a civilization has hardly any advantages...

['Ì'awn Menari]

Yeah, but I've asked if the Na'vi had a civilization or not.

I think a civilization has hardly any advantages...

true enough

[Elektrolurch]

Let's try to count them...

- destruction of Nature
- "decadency"?
- too many people can't live together
- always changes
- sooner or later, everything will break down
- it's more work
- organisation needed
- crimes are possible
- there's no use after all

+ you maybe live longer (but with less happiness)
+ you don't have to hunt your meal (but you have to pay it)

And so on...

['Ì'awn Menari]

Let's try to count them...

- destruction of Nature
- "decadency"?
- too many people can't live together
- always changes
- sooner or later, everything will break down
- it's more work
- organisation needed
- crimes are possible
- there's no use after all

+ you maybe live longer (but with less happiness)
+ you don't have to hunt your meal (but you have to pay it)

And so on...

oh yeah to many negatives

[Elektrolurch]

But please correct me, if anything's wrong!

[Muzer]

The lack of a need to hunt is quite a big one, with its many implications - there is much more free time in which to build up an intricate and beautiful culture of music, art, etc - and, ultimately, technology. Living merely off the land would be much harder work, much harsher, and generally a less fulfilling life as you won't really have a chance to do anything that will be remembered. If it weren't for civilisation, we would be deprived of all the beautiful music, art, etc. that we all take for granted, disease would be common, if you injure yourself severely there's no hope for you, when you get above about 40 you'll almost certainly die, the people living around you will most likely be the only people you meet in your entire life, the list goes on. There's a whole load of vast changes in just one point there.

A civilisation without all of the negatives can exist - the problem is, ours isn't one of them. It's our job to work to make it that way, rather than just denouncing the whole idea of a civilisation as stupid and refusing to take any part in it.

[Nawm Nantang]

this is an epic necropost 

Sran.  Necroposts can be like that sometimes.

I wonder, though, if Nawm Nantang has heard about this necroposting yet?

*Cough* Yeah I have *cough* heard of that.

['Ì'awn Menari]

this is an epic necropost 

Sran.  Necroposts can be like that sometimes.

I wonder, though, if Nawm Nantang has heard about this necroposting yet?

*Cough* Yeah I have *cough* heard of that.

ur just enjoying the converstation srak?  hrh

[ShadowedSin]

Every form of organization and society is based upon the number of people in it. More individuals mans you get more statification and more organization required. Which then in turn leads from Chiefdom to State.

Hunting and Gathering in itself has pros and cons. The truth of the matter however is one, there is no perfect society. Some advanced because of outward pressure or want and others remain the same. This is why we still have people living in semi-nomadic forms in the Congo and places like Tokyo. The question of whether or not the Na'vi have a civilization can be a bit hard to figure. By definition civilization is not a type of society.

Societal types in Anthropology are Band > Tribe > Chiefdom > State, and note there are many inbetweens! The Na'vi are between Tribe and Chiefdom. They however from we have seen are not at the level of state when it comes to organization. States inherently are city based with visible class systems, a visible military system.

Also note that everything has a cost big societies burn through resources faster, smaller ones have trouble if they don't have access to trade networks and population stagnation. One problem found in H/G clans was specifically how to prevent incest and knowing when you would be able to exchange individuals.

[Elektrolurch]

Yeeep, that's right. But a non-civilizated clan or group like the Na'vi, Inuit, ... don't affect the environment at all. Even agricultural changes affect the soil ... And I guess this is the strongest argument... Besides, there is not enough space for soo many people..

['Ì'awn Menari]

and too many people in one area can effect more than just the enviornment.  with hunters and gatherers they did not need to accumulate wealth, everything was equal within the tribe.  women helped out just as much as the men since it meant their survival.  once the first change hit which was domestication of plants and animals they were able to stay in one spot and inequalites began to form, as well as social structure. 
thanks to large societies there's apathy and that is not what this world needs.  we learned about the by-stander affect in my sociology class last year and people are less likely to do anything within large groups of people.  it's like for example in Richimond a girl got raped outside of a dance, people saw it happen and they either stood there and watched, took pictures of it, or did nothing to help.  they figured that the person next to them would stop it, and call 911...no one did. 
I mean yeah large socities have given us some good things too.  i personally love the IPod, Internet and what not.  and the health-care is better than what it used to be.  but there are things that are not good for humans and have taking its toll...

[Kyle Kepone]

Hi, I'm new.

Civilization, it could be said, is judged in the eye of the beholder - this is from a purely observational standpoint, of course. We see this in Avatar: the Na'vi call the sawtute ayskxawng and the sawtute call the Na'vi savages. There's obviously a very healthy culture of misunderstanding involved (although the Na'vi may have a point about all sawtute being ayskxawng, hrh).

As far as civilization goes on this planet, we pretty much have to make do and keep fighting. Otherwise, what will the generations of indigenous people, African-Americans, the chronically poor and working class, have fought for? They are our aysmuk. Society is deeply flawed, sure, but our choice shouldn't be to give up on civilization. If only for those who fought for better working conditions... Minimum wage... Equal suffrage for blacks and women... And a whole slew of other social issues, we should keep trying for a better world.

</stump speech>

I, er, yeah...