Pa'li Makto: Equestrians?

[Ayfa'liyä omumyu]

So I see in the Na'vi Tribes thread that the Horsepeople of the Plains don't seem too popular. As a horseman myself, I think such an oversight quite mad, and find it interesting that more than one friend or acquaintance who has seen the film adored the inclusion of "horses."

Anyway, just wondering if anyone's obsession is (further) fueled by the Pa'li and the idea of a readily attainable tsaheylu with one's mount. How many of us ride, how long have we been doing so, and in what discipline(s)? Been about fifteen years for me, in Huntseat, Dressage/Classical equitation, trails, and polo.

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(And in a particularly interesting bit of serendipity...) Kaltxì again.

Another horseperson here, in the saddle for about 12 years (over about 20 years.)  My passion is Dressage & Classical Equitation, did a bit of hunters when I was a kid (no talent for the jumping portion) and these days I'll sit any saddle you throw at me.  Don't have a horse of my own at the moment so it pays to be flexible

You know I'm going to have to chat a bit with my barn-friends and see if anyone has any thoughts.  For me I certainly appreciated the fact that Jake had a bit of a learning curve with the pa'li, even with the aid of the tsaheylu it's no easy task to just jump on and ride off. 

[Tirealì'u]

Y'all should see about getting a Tribe together once you can, then. ;-)

Personally, I never really cared too much for hooved animals too much, although I couldn't tell you why. That said, I still do respect the horses plenty - and heck, my brother is a horse farmer!

[Ayfa'liyä omumyu]

(And in a particularly interesting bit of serendipity...) Kaltxì again.

Indeed! Hì'i kifkey!

For me I certainly appreciated the fact that Jake had a bit of a learning curve with the pa'li, even with the aid of the tsaheylu it's no easy task to just jump on and ride off. 

I agree wholeheartedly. I'm glad they didn't make him an immediate master of all he surveys but instead used the opportunity to show that a relationship with a Pa'li - and, by extension, the rest of Pandora - must be an exercise in trust and sacrifice. Merely because one is granted a common language or even a telepathic link does not rule out the fact that within the two bodies lies two different hearts and minds, just as liable towards disagreement or misunderstanding as any other.

[Coyote]

I was thinking about this the other day and figured that since the Horse Tribe was specifically identified as "The Horse Tribe" it meant that they didn't have any Ikrans. If they live on the plains, they probably don't have steady access to Ikran aeries and so never developed an Ikran tradition.

In the eyes of other Na'vi, that may make them "lesser" status.

[Toruk Makto]

That's an interesting thought. There is very little information presented on relations between the different Na'vi tribes. Perhaps this will be explored in the upcoming films.

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I hope the sequels will show us more about some of the different tribes.

My guess is the Horse Tribe takes great pains to develop their skills with the pa'li beyond what some of the other tribes might do.  I suppose their 'status' might depend more on general tribal relations, are they generally war-like? It seems not to be so.  (If Jake can rally that many tribes in 24h I'd bet these are generally friendly tribes.)  I sort of doubt the ikran is so much of a status object as we see it, it's an adaptation to living in the forest, making hunting or fighting easier.

[Ayfa'liyä omumyu]

I was thinking about this the other day and figured that since the Horse Tribe was specifically identified as "The Horse Tribe" it meant that they didn't have any Ikrans. If they live on the plains, they probably don't have steady access to Ikran aeries and so never developed an Ikran tradition.

In the eyes of other Na'vi, that may make them "lesser" status.

This is a tremendous amount of conjecture. We don't know that they lack for Ayikran, or to what degree their Ikran tradition is developed, if at all.

Even assuming they do not have Ayikran, we do not know if this is by circumstance or choice. They may not have need or want for them and it may very well be that rather than being viewed as "lesser" in status because of this, they are revered for their chosen specialization.

It is this latter point that I felt the summoning of the tribes conveyed - that each tribe is distinct in their character and brings to the others their own particular cultural merit.

[Technowraith]

We don't know enough about the various tribes to make any kind of conclusions really. The obvious lack of suitable ikran habitat in the open plains is a good reason to switch to the pa'li. I don't hold the horse tribes any "lower" than any other tribe. They have simply adapted to what nature has provided them. Pa'li. Just like the eastern tribe adapted to using ikran. The omaticaya have both pa'li and ikran. (Hometree allows for both). The eastern sea cliffs allows for the ikran. The plains allow for the pa'li. I'm sure there may be a limited number of ikran for the horse tribes, as i'm sure they need a fast method of moving around at times. Faster than a pa'li in times of emergencies. I'm sure the eastern tribe has pa'li in case they have to go places an ikran can't go. And with the omaticaya, we see both.

[Coyote]

Conjecture is all we have to go on, and we have to deduce that from available evidence. They are said to live in plains, which implies "flat", and the only ikrans we see seem to prefer high perches (Iknimaya, the jungle trees). And they are specifically called "the Horse Clan", which I suppose is Jake's interpretation from the Na'vi.

If someone came to Earth, and lived with people who all drove cars, and someone mentioned "the Truck Clan in the South", we could infer from that. It is a logical inference, if not one that is wholly supported. Further information from the creator is needed to be sure one way or the other.

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I think what Ayfa'liyä omumyu was referring to on the conjecture bit was that having ikran or pa'li (or even some other creature we've never heard of) conferred any sort of status to a particular tribe.  We could assume or postulate many things concerning status but really we've got no idea.  I don't think it's too much conjecture to assume that such a tribe exists given the events we were shown, but beyond the fact that they exist not much can be known.

Here's hoping that Cameron decides to show us

[Ayfa'liyä omumyu]

I think what Ayfa'liyä omumyu was referring to on the conjecture bit was that having ikran or pa'li (or even some other creature we've never heard of) conferred any sort of status to a particular tribe.

Precisely.

[Coyote]

Ahh, sorry. Gotcha now.

[Txur’Itan]

If someone came to Earth, and lived with people who all drove cars, and someone mentioned "the Truck Clan in the South", we could infer from that. It is a logical inference, if not one that is wholly supported. Further information from the creator is needed to be sure one way or the other.

Agreed... And LOL at the "The southern Truck Clan!"

The Pa'li Aymaktoyu of the plains are interesting.  They are far from Tree of Voices or Tree of Souls, they seem to prefer riding the Pa'li, and they are the only ones to have nose piercings as far as we have been shown.

We never heard their name in the Na'vi language.  Jake's name translated back into Na'vi may not be their actual clan's name, they could have a name like Omatikaya that does not have a literal translation in "modern Na'vi", or means something like what Jake calls them in a different Na'vi dialect or ancient word form. 

We don't know enough about the various tribes to make any kind of conclusions really. The obvious lack of suitable ikran habitat in the open plains is a good reason to switch to the pa'li. I don't hold the horse tribes any "lower" than any other tribe. They have simply adapted to what nature has provided them. Pa'li. Just like the eastern tribe adapted to using ikran. The omaticaya have both pa'li and ikran. (Hometree allows for both). The eastern sea cliffs allows for the ikran. The plains allow for the pa'li. I'm sure there may be a limited number of ikran for the horse tribes, as i'm sure they need a fast method of moving around at times. Faster than a pa'li in times of emergencies. I'm sure the eastern tribe has pa'li in case they have to go places an ikran can't go. And with the omaticaya, we see both.

There is the possibility the Horse Clan of the Plains are nomadic.  Their shelters looked like they could be dismantled for a quick trip to follow a heard of their favored game animal.  However, the choice of this clan to park near that odd looking spire makes me wonder what the significance of the camp location might be.  Did they like the way that spire looked, or is it serving an as yet unrevealed practical purpose.  Did they build it, or did it grow there?  Is it rock, plant, animal, a burned out husk of an ancient Na'vi building from an Atlantis like civilization?

I was thinking about this the other day and figured that since the Horse Tribe was specifically identified as "The Horse Tribe" it meant that they didn't have any Ikrans. If they live on the plains, they probably don't have steady access to Ikran aeries and so never developed an Ikran tradition.

In the eyes of other Na'vi, that may make them "lesser" status.

This is a tremendous amount of conjecture. We don't know that they lack for Ayikran, or to what degree their Ikran tradition is developed, if at all.

Even assuming they do not have Ayikran, we do not know if this is by circumstance or choice. They may not have need or want for them and it may very well be that rather than being viewed as "lesser" in status because of this, they are revered for their chosen specialization.

It is this latter point that I felt the summoning of the tribes conveyed - that each tribe is distinct in their character and brings to the others their own particular cultural merit.

They may have found that they like the taste of a particular land animal, and hunting it from the air is impractical.