Na'vi - the flawless people?

['it a txep]

A post on another forum made me think. The author basically said that, as opposed to the greedy, brutal, blind humans, the Na'vi have no flaws at all. They are peaceful, in tune with the world, wise,... their community seems to work perfectly.

It reminds me of Dune, where the desert people are also depicted as "better", "flawless" people (I noticed that while reading the book).

Now, are the Na'vi really flawless, or is it just in theory? What could be the disadvantages of their lifestyle?

All that came to my mind so far was: if you're in any way handicapped and cannot hunt or tame an ikran, you'll never be an "adult" and get the right to speak. Also, group pressure could be a problem once in a while.

Any more ideas?

[Night Raider]

Well, in all societies there are flaws. Society without flaws is utopical. I think Cameron will show us the flaws in the sequels.

[txum tukru]

the way they hunt, as they're population grows the more animals killed! i wonder if thats a flaw, or if there population is even growing at all.

[Night Raider]

the way they hunt, as they're population grows the more animals killed! i wonder if thats a flaw, or if there population is even growing at all.

Don't think that it's a flaw, because it's what's needed in order to survive.

[txum tukru]

good point! i didnt think it was such a flaw anyways, it was the only thing i could dig up!

[Txur’Itan]

A post on another forum made me think. The author basically said that, as opposed to the greedy, brutal, blind humans, the Na'vi have no flaws at all. They are peaceful, in tune with the world, wise,... their community seems to work perfectly.

It reminds me of Dune, where the desert people are also depicted as "better", "flawless" people (I noticed that while reading the book).

Now, are the Na'vi really flawless, or is it just in theory? What could be the disadvantages of their lifestyle?

All that came to my mind so far was: if you're in any way handicapped and cannot hunt or tame an ikran, you'll never be an "adult" and get the right to speak. Also, group pressure could be a problem once in a while.

Any more ideas?

If there is a flaw, it depends on the value of life.  If everything that the Na'vi are as a people can be saved to Eywa like a back up, do they really ever have to fully acknowledge death?  Do they know what it means to truly loose someone, and have no hope of making contact with them ever again?  Do they know how to live a life without Tsahaylu, say if they had a queue amputated?

[Étienne]

They have not always been peaceful. Also how someone see's these flaws is dependent on the mindset. Most modern people would say the flaw is lack of scientific understand of what's going on around them.

Eywa ngahu

[fkeua vrrtep]

A post on another forum made me think. The author basically said that, as opposed to the greedy, brutal, blind humans, the Na'vi have no flaws at all. They are peaceful, in tune with the world, wise,... their community seems to work perfectly.

It reminds me of Dune, where the desert people are also depicted as "better", "flawless" people (I noticed that while reading the book).

Now, are the Na'vi really flawless, or is it just in theory? What could be the disadvantages of their lifestyle?

All that came to my mind so far was: if you're in any way handicapped and cannot hunt or tame an ikran, you'll never be an "adult" and get the right to speak. Also, group pressure could be a problem once in a while.

Any more ideas?

Well , i don't know if they have any kind of flaws , but Jake was talking about "traitors and outcasts" , so I guess something has happened in the past where someone has become an outcast or has become a traitor to the Na'vi , but to me they are flawless , I couldn't discover anything negative about their culture , their social life , they share , they don't know ownership , they accept every kind of lifeforms in their surroundings , even humans who are known to not have uncountable vices flaws , and this makes them flawless , their acceptance , they give people a chance to proof themselves and that's what makes them great .

[Coyote]

Um, did the person making this criticism remember that there was a "shoot on sight" order for Avatars among the Omaticaya, and that all the Omaticaya at first (except Mo'at, who saved Jake's bacon) considered him a demon and were about to kill him? You know, for being different? And even after orders from Mo'at, Tsu'tey continued to bully and denigrate Jake for some time?

I didn't think they were portrayed as faultless at all. Neytiri herself had to overcome prejudices about what Jake was. They had as many flaws and prejudices about the humans as the humans did about them. They just didn't have catchy buzzwords like "fly-bitten savages".

[fkeua vrrtep]

Um, did the person making this criticism remember that there was a "shoot on sight" order for Avatars among the Omaticaya, and that all the Omaticaya at first (except Mo'at, who saved Jake's bacon) considered him a demon and were about to kill him? You know, for being different? And even after orders from Mo'at, Tsu'tey continued to bully and denigrate Jake for some time?

I didn't think they were portrayed as faultless at all. Neytiri herself had to overcome prejudices about what Jake was. They had as many flaws and prejudices about the humans as the humans did about them. They just didn't have catchy buzzwords like "fly-bitten savages".

well mate , to get that straight , the humans were the agressors with the machine guns pointing at the na'vi , telling them to give them what they want or to die on their own ground , I think you confuse things a little , what if someone invaded your land and wanted to take evrything from you and your people and what you are living for ? I bet you wouldn't welcome your enemies with open arms just like you advice it here , what do you think the humans would have done with a Na'vi Ambassador , they would have simply cut him into peaces after laughing at what he has to say , you better rethink what you just wrote there .

They didn't have any prejudices at the very beginning as it's told in the movie , they tried to TEACH them and not to annihilate them , the humans only intention to come to pandora is 100% economic , and economy means to take from those that do possess , as for capitalism bases on benefit ,and so on deficit of others , this movie clearly shows you how our civilization works , without war and exploitation we wouldn't be where we are right now , and with that I have to say I do not want to be where we are , instead of moving forward , we moved backwards and betrayed everything where we came from .

[Doolio]

the 'shoot on sight' order wasn't given for no reason, or because the sawtute are different, but because they came uninvited with bad intentions and they are destroying the forests and the planet itself. the humans are the usurpers, for one.

Tsu'tey continued to bully and denigrate Jake for some time?

and, as we know, tsu'tey was right. jake did come as a spy in the first place.

they are not flawless, but in the movie, all of their actions are quite justified.

[Coyote]

Okay, I can see that; very good points.

[Roiki]

Like a normal tribe, it seems to be strict and authoritarian, the leader has all the power and final say in the matter. It also seems it isn't completely equal, as "a man chooses a woman" implying the woman doesn't have a say in her own future. They also seem to be highly prejudicial, since they consider the humans "insane" without trying to understand them. Reminds me of the gungans from Episode 1. Since it's nowhere stated what exactly started the conflict, i hate to label the humans as the aggressors, they weren't there to exterminate them, just to get what they needed with minimal casualties, if someone shoots at you, you shoot back, works both ways.

They didn't have any prejudices at the very beginning as it's told in the movie , they tried to TEACH them and not to annihilate them , the humans only intention to come to pandora is 100% economic , and economy means to take from those that do possess , as for capitalism bases on benefit ,and so on deficit of others , this movie clearly shows you how our civilization works , without war and exploitation we wouldn't be where we are right now , and with that I have to say I do not want to be where we are , instead of moving forward , we moved backwards and betrayed everything where we came from .

The Na'vi tried to teach humans their ways, without aiming for mutual understanding, this in turn gives them the "fly-bitten savages" image that humans have, jelously defending everything they have saying "this is ours, we don't share" same thing what humans do. If things had moved down a different path most likely the humans could've found a place on the planet where there wasn't any indigenous population.

It also doesn' elaborate in what kind of condition earth is, just that there is no nature anymore. So it might be that earth is in such a dire need of unobtainium to maintain societys functions that without it they condemn themselves to extinction. I'm reluctant to say their reasons are purely economical. Especially since its so costly to maintain a base on a different star system and to mine the mineral from the soil.

Still, based only on one movie it's hard to sway one way or the other since the views from both sides are so narrow.

[fkeua vrrtep]

Like a normal tribe, it seems to be strict and authoritarian, the leader has all the power and final say in the matter. It also seems it isn't completely equal, as "a man chooses a woman" implying the woman doesn't have a say in her own future. They also seem to be highly prejudicial, since they consider the humans "insane" without trying to understand them. Reminds me of the gungans from Episode 1. Since it's nowhere stated what exactly started the conflict, i hate to label the humans as the aggressors, they weren't there to exterminate them, just to get what they needed with minimal casualties, if someone shoots at you, you shoot back, works both ways.

They didn't have any prejudices at the very beginning as it's told in the movie , they tried to TEACH them and not to annihilate them , the humans only intention to come to pandora is 100% economic , and economy means to take from those that do possess , as for capitalism bases on benefit ,and so on deficit of others , this movie clearly shows you how our civilization works , without war and exploitation we wouldn't be where we are right now , and with that I have to say I do not want to be where we are , instead of moving forward , we moved backwards and betrayed everything where we came from .

The Na'vi tried to teach humans their ways, without aiming for mutual understanding, this in turn gives them the "fly-bitten savages" image that humans have, jelously defending everything they have saying "this is ours, we don't share" same thing what humans do. If things had moved down a different path most likely the humans could've found a place on the planet where there wasn't any indigenous population.

It also doesn' elaborate in what kind of condition earth is, just that there is no nature anymore. So it might be that earth is in such a dire need of unobtainium to maintain societys functions that without it they condemn themselves to extinction. I'm reluctant to say their reasons are purely economical. Especially since its so costly to maintain a base on a different star system and to mine the mineral from the soil.

Still, based only on one movie it's hard to sway one way or the other since the views from both sides are so narrow.

I hope you aren't serious with that , you just can't go to someones homeplanet and be like "oh there's some f*** stones underneath your holy tree which is at the same time your home and a sacred place to you and your ancestors , besides it links you up with everything that's living on your planet but f*** that we'll burn it down if you don't move away ,do you agree to us non agressive humans invading your home and threatening you and your children ?".

Dude the RDA bombed their home and shot it into little pieces, fathers ,mothers and children died at that place , were smashed by tree parts falling on them, burned alive, or shot by any kind of projectile and you say that the humans can't be traited as agressors ? You must be insane my friend , I wonder how you would react if someone came to our planet and wanted our properties or else they will kill us if we don't move away , I guess you won't be too happy about it .


Besides humanity has driven itself into the misery it's living in , it doesn't authorize you to kill people to get what you need to keep your machinery alive .

[Toruk Makto]

Mawey, Na'vi. Mawey... 

Interpretations can be challenged in a friendly way. Let's stay friendly! 

[fkeua vrrtep]

Mawey, Na'vi. Mawey... 

Interpretations can be challenged in a friendly way. Let's stay friendly! 

He's trying to justify the annihilation of people in case of greed , I think that's quite a reason to set that straight , the same thing happened here on earth before , europeans came to america and did just the same thing , "give us your land , your properties and everything else you own or we will straight away annihilate you" , and that's what they did , today there are only small leftovers of the culture and the people of indians in america , a sad example for the coldbloodedness of humans .

[Toruk Makto]

Mawey, Na'vi. Mawey...  

Interpretations can be challenged in a friendly way. Let's stay friendly!  

He's trying to justify the annihilation of people in case of greed , I think that's quite a reason to set that straight , the same thing happened here on earth before , europeans came to america and did just the same thing , "give us your land , your properties and everything else you own or we will straight away annihilate you" , and that's what they did , today there are only small leftovers of the culture and the people of indians in america , a sad example for the coldbloodedness of humans .

According to the Survival Guide, humans needed unobtainium to keep Earth habitable and also needed other resources from Pandora to start reversing the environmental damage. I mentioned somewhere else that survival is the ultimate natural selector. One of the processes of natural selection is aggression, and anything else becomes a moral discussion. It occurs to me that the humans on Pandora did try a 'non-annihilation' route with the avatar program, but it didn't work because it was accompanied with machine guns by the aggressive 'security forces' that were tasked by the RDA to get the goods at any cost. We are back to the moral failure of the humans' refusal to respect the Na'vi as a people and Pandora as an ecosystem.

[Coyote]

Like a normal tribe, it seems to be strict and authoritarian, the leader has all the power and final say in the matter. It also seems it isn't completely equal, as "a man chooses a woman" implying the woman doesn't have a say in her own future.

To be fair, the man chooses the woman he wants to pursue, but she is the one that determines whether she will agree or not, and she decides whether or not they make tshaylu. So she has a veto on his desires. That way they both have input on the decision.

[fkeua vrrtep]

Mawey, Na'vi. Mawey...  

Interpretations can be challenged in a friendly way. Let's stay friendly!  

He's trying to justify the annihilation of people in case of greed , I think that's quite a reason to set that straight , the same thing happened here on earth before , europeans came to america and did just the same thing , "give us your land , your properties and everything else you own or we will straight away annihilate you" , and that's what they did , today there are only small leftovers of the culture and the people of indians in america , a sad example for the coldbloodedness of humans .

According to the Survival Guide, humans needed unobtainium to keep Earth habitable and also needed other resources from Pandora to start reversing the environmental damage. I mentioned somewhere else that survival is the ultimate natural selector. One of the processes of natural selection is aggression, and anything else becomes a moral discussion. It occurs to me that the humans on Pandora did try a 'non-annihilation' route with the avatar program, but it didn't work because it was accompanied with machine guns by the aggressive 'security forces' that were tasked by the RDA to get the goods at any cost. We are back to the moral failure of the humans' refusal to respect the Na'vi as a people and Pandora as an ecosystem.

That might be , but humanity still is responsible where it ended up , they could have gone a better way but they decided to go the way of decay , so they actually deserved to go down with the world they exploited .

[Toruk Makto]

 IIRC, in most species, it is the males that initiate the mating process, so that isn't all that unusual. I agree that in a 'civilized' society, the females need to have equal authority to decline.