Na'vi warfare

Started by Txepa-utral Atxkxe, January 06, 2010, 01:10:45 AM

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Txepa-utral Atxkxe

Fair enough, but as it stands, it's still fun to think about.
In all matters of opinion, our adversaries are insane.--Oscar Wilde

Txur’Itan

We know from the ASG that the Na'vi know war without humans.

We know from the ASG that there is another moon that may have life on it.

We know from the film and from the ASG that there is more than the one continent, where the events of the first movie take place.

We know from the film that even thought the Na'vi have a strong sense of clanship, they still have separate clans.

What we do not know is details.  That is pretty well understood.  There is plenty of speculation based on the attitude of the Omatikaya towards fighting, and the other clans when Toruk Makto calls the clans together.

There are plenty of vague yet open ended opportunities to meet completely different cultures of Na'vi.  Some could be from the ones we know now from the film, others possibly even more advanced from a tech stand point, more violent, more selfish, more entitled, etc...  We just have not met everyone on Pandora yet, just as we have not seen every animal in the ASG.

Maybe the only conflict we will see the Na'vi face in the next two films will be with the humans only.  In which case, we will probably be left with non canonical references from books that will be released later.
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Tìng Eywatikìte'e

I hope on top of the trilogy that follows Jake and Neytiri we get a prequel that will explain the Na'vi in more detail before the humans came.

I'm curious about other moons having life on them, but I'm confused on why it would matter on Pandora. It's not as though it would be possible for the Na'vi to travel between the two...
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Nìwotxkrr Tìyawn

Quote from: Tìng Eywatikìte'e on January 10, 2010, 10:44:59 PM
I hope on top of the trilogy that follows Jake and Neytiri we get a prequel that will explain the Na'vi in more detail before the humans came.

I'm curious about other moons having life on them, but I'm confused on why it would matter on Pandora. It's not as though it would be possible for the Na'vi to travel between the two...

I would like to see a movie all in Na'vi like their "time of great suffering", which I assume was a war before the humans arrived.
Naruto Shippuden Episode 166: Confession
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Tìng Eywatikìte'e

I doubt all five will be made, because let's face it, no movie series would be good after like eight films. People would be sick of them...Better to do the three and maybe on prequel and leave on high note.

But I would like to see all the five great sorrows covered, which is why I think Cameron needs to put a lot more of his time in making the scripts for the games so they can be canon.
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Hawnuyu atìtse'a

Doing a prequel in a game would be easier and more fun. No point in going back after the trilogy before it began (in a movie).
"And that's how you scatter the roaches."- Col. Miles Quaritch.

Team Quaritch Member

Rey ulte ting rey.

Txur’Itan

Quote from: Tìng Eywatikìte'e on January 10, 2010, 10:44:59 PM
I hope on top of the trilogy that follows Jake and Neytiri we get a prequel that will explain the Na'vi in more detail before the humans came.

I'm curious about other moons having life on them, but I'm confused on why it would matter on Pandora. It's not as though it would be possible for the Na'vi to travel between the two...

Not one to throw things out on the table without having a plan in mind, this is just something we are going to have to wait for from Cameron.  Sadly, the final say one whether the other moons matter is to be expected no sooner than the end of 2011 if a date can be thrown out at all.

Quote from: Tìng Eywatikìte'e on January 10, 2010, 10:49:57 PM
I doubt all five will be made, because let's face it, no movie series would be good after like eight films. People would be sick of them...Better to do the three and maybe on prequel and leave on high note.

But I would like to see all the five great sorrows covered, which is why I think Cameron needs to put a lot more of his time in making the scripts for the games so they can be canon.

There are definately some story possibilities with Pandora history, there is much left unknown about the time prior to the films, or prior to humans sending probes to Pandora for the first time.

Quote from: Hawnuyu atìtse'a on January 10, 2010, 10:53:07 PM
Doing a prequel in a game would be easier and more fun. No point in going back after the trilogy before it began (in a movie).

He already has, and it was recieved with mixed reviews and interest.

Quote from: Nìwotkrr Tsahameylu on January 10, 2010, 10:47:30 PM
I would like to see a movie all in Na'vi like their "time of great suffering", which I assume was a war before the humans arrived.

In 15 years, you might just get your wish, I am sure the next two films will be moving forward on the story.
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Tìng Eywatikìte'e

Well they're currently making The Hobbit, the prequel before LOTR. It's not all that uncommon to make a series and then make a prequel. (Though I pretend the Star Wars prequels don't exist...) Especially for a world as complex as Avatar, it's not like they would make a prequel where we know how it ends. It would be before the humans arrived and we had any idea what was happening.

At Txur'Itan: We know that the game was bad. What I hope for now, is that Cameron will pay more attention to the games and actually  have them fit into the canon and actually make sure they're good games. The first games made don't really count as they were used merely for the publicity. Now that they have a successful franchise they can put more effort into the off branches like books and games.
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Hawnuyu atìtse'a

Eh, I don't really like prequels. Extended flashbacks are more enjoyable for me. I guess the star wars prequels really did a number to me.
"And that's how you scatter the roaches."- Col. Miles Quaritch.

Team Quaritch Member

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Tìng Eywatikìte'e

It would be nothing like the Star War prequels. We're not talking about stuff that could be covered by flashbacks. We have five Times of Great Sorrow to cover and I'm guessing there isn't a single Na'vi alive to remember any of them beside maybe some really old ones who were little babies for the last one.
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Txur’Itan

Quote from: Tìng Eywatikìte'e on January 10, 2010, 11:03:04 PM
Well they're currently making The Hobbit, the prequel before LOTR.

I do not think of the hobbit as technically a prequel, because unlike other "prequels" the hobbit is not an after thought with retroactive continuity...  For the books, the Hobbit was first, LOTR second, but the movies focused on LOTR first because the primary interest of the people making the films.  Ad nauseum factoid, while LOTR was published as three books, it is technically one whole book as it was originally authored, but the publisher pushed Tolkien to separate it out into more digestible sizes for what was purported to be economical reasons *1* and *2*.

Quote from: Tìng Eywatikìte'e on January 10, 2010, 11:03:04 PM
At Txur'Itan: We know that the game was bad. What I hope for now, is that Cameron will pay more attention to the games and actually  have them fit into the canon and actually make sure they're good games. The first games made don't really count as they were used merely for the publicity. Now that they have a successful franchise they can put more effort into the off branches like books and games.

I have not played it yet, so I can not say that in my own opinion the games were bad, but from what I have been told, many agree with your point of view.  I also would like to a see a good game or book based on Avatar. 

As an example: 1 AvP comic > 2 AvP game > 3 AvP Movie = 1 Good, 2 OK, 3 the suck. 

Me I am going to give the Avatar PS3 game a chance, and see what I think later on.  Historically, game to movie transitions tend to not work out well, too many continuity holes to plug up, mediocre game design recycling old tropes, not much thought into making it fun to play, list goes on...

Quote from: Hawnuyu atìtse'a on January 10, 2010, 11:12:16 PM
Eh, I don't really like prequels. Extended flashbacks are more enjoyable for me. I guess the star wars prequels really did a number to me.

IMO

Star Wars = Bad Example
Star Trek = Good Example

Quote from: Tìng Eywatikìte'e on January 10, 2010, 11:16:34 PM
It would be nothing like the Star War prequels. We're not talking about stuff that could be covered by flashbacks. We have five Times of Great Sorrow to cover and I'm guessing there isn't a single Na'vi alive to remember any of them beside maybe some really old ones who were little babies for the last one.

The last one was in the time of Neytriri's Grandfather's Grandfather.  I can not say how long ago that is, mostly because we don't have facts on how long ago that was.  For humans at a similar level of pre industrial civilised living, 60 + 60 = 120 years average with one new generation per 20 years give or take a few, so it could be approximately about the 2030's with a huge margin for error considering the missing facts.  Also her father and mother were pretty old looking, they may have been closer to 30 years per generation 90 + 90 = 180 which would place the event around the 1970's between 1974 and 1979. 

That event taking place in the 1970's could be a hidden Easter egg considering the time of the release of the original Star Wars, a film Avatar is frequently compared to right now.
私は太った男だ。


Nìwotxkrr Tìyawn

Quote from: Txur'Itan on January 11, 2010, 01:08:49 AM
Quote from: Tìng Eywatikìte'e on January 10, 2010, 11:03:04 PM
Well they're currently making The Hobbit, the prequel before LOTR.

I do not think of the hobbit as technically a prequel, because unlike other "prequels" the hobbit is not an after thought with retroactive continuity...  For the books, the Hobbit was first, LOTR second, but the movies focused on LOTR first because the primary interest of the people making the films.  Ad nauseum factoid, while LOTR was published as three books, it is technically one whole book as it was originally authored, but the publisher pushed Tolkien to separate it out into more digestible sizes for what was purported to be economical reasons *1* and *2*.

Quote from: Tìng Eywatikìte'e on January 10, 2010, 11:03:04 PM
At Txur'Itan: We know that the game was bad. What I hope for now, is that Cameron will pay more attention to the games and actually  have them fit into the canon and actually make sure they're good games. The first games made don't really count as they were used merely for the publicity. Now that they have a successful franchise they can put more effort into the off branches like books and games.

I have not played it yet, so I can not say that in my own opinion the games were bad, but from what I have been told, many agree with your point of view.  I also would like to a see a good game or book based on Avatar. 

As an example: 1 AvP comic > 2 AvP game > 3 AvP Movie = 1 Good, 2 OK, 3 the suck. 

Me I am going to give the Avatar PS3 game a chance, and see what I think later on.  Historically, game to movie transitions tend to not work out well, too many continuity holes to plug up, mediocre game design recycling old tropes, not much thought into making it fun to play, list goes on...

Quote from: Hawnuyu atìtse'a on January 10, 2010, 11:12:16 PM
Eh, I don't really like prequels. Extended flashbacks are more enjoyable for me. I guess the star wars prequels really did a number to me.

IMO

Star Wars = Bad Example
Star Trek = Good Example

Quote from: Tìng Eywatikìte'e on January 10, 2010, 11:16:34 PM
It would be nothing like the Star War prequels. We're not talking about stuff that could be covered by flashbacks. We have five Times of Great Sorrow to cover and I'm guessing there isn't a single Na'vi alive to remember any of them beside maybe some really old ones who were little babies for the last one.

The last one was in the time of Neytriri's Grandfather's Grandfather.  I can not say how long ago that is, mostly because we don't have facts on how long ago that was.  For humans at a similar level of pre industrial civilised living, 60 + 60 = 120 years average with one new generation per 20 years give or take a few, so it could be approximately about the 2030's with a huge margin for error considering the missing facts.  Also her father and mother were pretty old looking, they may have been closer to 30 years per generation 90 + 90 = 180 which would place the event around the 1970's between 1974 and 1979. 

That event taking place in the 1970's could be a hidden Easter egg considering the time of the release of the original Star Wars, a film Avatar is frequently compared to right now.

The new AvP game is supposed to be pretty good.
Naruto Shippuden Episode 166: Confession
                                    Watch it, Love it, Live it

Txon Tsyal

I think the main reasons for the Na`vi would do war would be love, religion or some other less intelligent, but dangeorus species.

My bet would be on the 3rd.
Personally i don`t take the Na`vi as alien because i think i understand them.

When I look on the news and see what horrible things are happening around the world I can`t help but wonder what is the source of them and therefore my own race is becoming more and more alien to me as time passes by.

Does that make any sense?

Txepa-utral Atxkxe

Quote from: Txon Tsyal on January 12, 2010, 01:29:23 PM
I think the main reasons for the Na`vi would do war would be love, religion or some other less intelligent, but dangeorus species.

My bet would be on the 3rd.

That's an interesting idea, but there is no indication anywhere of any other sentient species on Pandora. Sentience is a prerequisite for war.
In all matters of opinion, our adversaries are insane.--Oscar Wilde

Nìwotxkrr Tìyawn

Quote from: Txepa-utral Atxkxe on January 12, 2010, 05:51:39 PM
Quote from: Txon Tsyal on January 12, 2010, 01:29:23 PM
I think the main reasons for the Na`vi would do war would be love, religion or some other less intelligent, but dangeorus species.

My bet would be on the 3rd.

That's an interesting idea, but there is no indication anywhere of any other sentient species on Pandora. Sentience is a prerequisite for war.

We've only seen a teeny weeny bit of what Pandora has to offer us, I wouldn't be surprised if the creature from the movie aliens came from there since it seems to suite it perfectly.
Naruto Shippuden Episode 166: Confession
                                    Watch it, Love it, Live it

Hawnuyu atìtse'a

Quote from: Txon Tsyal on January 12, 2010, 01:29:23 PM
I think the main reasons for the Na`vi would do war would be love, religion or some other less intelligent, but dangeorus species.

My bet would be on the 3rd.
Hence, the avatar movie.
"And that's how you scatter the roaches."- Col. Miles Quaritch.

Team Quaritch Member

Rey ulte ting rey.

Tìng Eywatikìte'e

There hasn't been any hint of another species intelligent enough to carry out "war" on Pandora. I hope Cameron doesn't pull one out of his ass, it would make no sense with what they have given us so far. There would have been at least a little mention of them.

On another note, shouldn't this thread be moved to the shiny, new, (and now my favorite) Culture section?
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Txon Tsyal

Quote from: Hawnuyu atìtse'a on January 12, 2010, 08:43:27 PM
Quote from: Txon Tsyal on January 12, 2010, 01:29:23 PM
I think the main reasons for the Na`vi would do war would be love, religion or some other less intelligent, but dangeorus species.

My bet would be on the 3rd.
Hence, the avatar movie.

Heh true.
Personally i don`t take the Na`vi as alien because i think i understand them.

When I look on the news and see what horrible things are happening around the world I can`t help but wonder what is the source of them and therefore my own race is becoming more and more alien to me as time passes by.

Does that make any sense?

Roiki

Quote from: Tìng Eywatikìte'e on January 10, 2010, 10:49:57 PM
I doubt all five will be made, because let's face it, no movie series would be good after like eight films. People would be sick of them...Better to do the three and maybe on prequel and leave on high note.

Don't forget the James Bond franchise, they're going for...23rd film if i'm not mistaken and most of them have been great movies, and they managed to do a great reboot.

But i agree with you on that they should stop when they're on top.
Slow is smooth, smooth is fast.

Eywal ngaru teing oeti

I think everyone will agree on that.