Author Topic: Na'vi Afterlife  (Read 11178 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline Tsu'roen

  • Taronyu
  • ****
  • Posts: 566
  • Karma: 22
Re: Na'vi Afterlife
« Reply #120 on: February 13, 2010, 05:56:05 am »
Quote
Do you think, there is a difference in afterlife? Or are all the people equal? Maybe the olo'eyktan and Na'vi, who did extraordinary things gain a special status? ...

Well, how could there be a difference? I mean they seem to be just disembodied consciousnesses. What type of orders could the eyktan give anyone? Rules such as "the olo'eyktan gets to eat first" or who knows what would be sorta meaningless here..

Quote
The 'separation of consciousness' or even 'separation of spirit from body' idea comes up a lot in the movie. For instance - when a human controls an avatar body, is that persons spirit / consciousness removed from their body and 'transplanted' into the avatar? It certainly appears that way.

I would have said yes, but only in the same way a person who's sitting in the control room remote-controlling that bulldozer has his consciousness transferred to the bulldozer. Say he didn't only see through the camera, but also hear through microphones, and maybe even feel through touch sensors.

That would imply an incomplete input output structure for the AVTR, and be susceptible to interference, malfunctions, data errors.  Why not just set the driver up at a terminal?  Why would it be "DANGEROUS" to unlink unexpectedly?  These things come up in the film..

Interrupting the link is not so dangerous for the driver but for the Avatar. Imagine the Avatar in a situation like Jake's trip up Iknimaya or while riding an Ikran. If the link is cut in such a situation the Avatar will most likely be lost. The driver may get a mental trauma under certain situations like when the Avatar is seriously injured or killed. But an interruption of the link will most likely only cause a momentary disorientation.

Also the drivers consciousness stays in his body during the link. Being linked to the Avatar is more like being in a very vivid dream. You can see that during Jakes first link session when they show Jake in the link and how his eyes move rapidly like in REM sleep.

If there was a complete transfer/upload of the driver's consciousness into the Avatar body it would have some implications:
- The link wouldn't need to be maintained but only be used for the actual transfer in and out
- If the Avatar is killed while the driver is linked up both will die and the driver's body will stay behind like an unconscious Avatar.
- If the the driver is killed while linked up he will be "trapped" in the Avatar body without a chance to return.

Quote
IMO, Eywa already knew Jake was different than the scientists and that he was a fearless warrior. This was learned by observing his actions on his first outing and his confrontation with the palulukan and aynantang.

But how did Eywa observe this? Does she have eyes and ears?
Anyway, I was gonna do a thread about Eywa..

This is inferred, and its from some of the early script drafts, which show an intention behind the aggressiveness of Pandoran wildlife towards humans, but that whole concept may be dropped by the sequel.

All pandoran life is a part of Eywa. So whatever an animal or plant sees or feels goes into Eywa's sub-consciousness.  And Jake had plenty of contact with trees and plants and animals on his first trip into the forest. So Eywa must have sensed that there is something special about this strange Na'vi that is worth further investigation.

"There are many dangers on Pandora, and one of the subtlest is that you may come to love it too much" ~ Dr. Grace Augustine

"You have a strong heart. No fear. But stupid!  Ignorant like a child!" ~ Neytiri te Tskaha Mo'at’ite

10x (1x 2D, 3x Real 3D, 6x IMAX 3D)
1x Special Ed. (1x IMAX 3D)

Offline Mithcoriel

  • 'Eveng
  • ***
  • Posts: 266
  • Karma: 10
Re: Na'vi Afterlife
« Reply #121 on: February 13, 2010, 07:53:28 am »
Quote
Quote
Quote
The 'separation of consciousness' or even 'separation of spirit from body' idea comes up a lot in the movie. For instance - when a human controls an avatar body, is that persons spirit / consciousness removed from their body and 'transplanted' into the avatar? It certainly appears that way.
I would have said yes, but only in the same way a person who's sitting in the control room remote-controlling that bulldozer has his consciousness transferred to the bulldozer. Say he didn't only see through the camera, but also hear through microphones, and maybe even feel through touch sensors.
That would imply an incomplete input output structure for the AVTR, and be susceptible to interference, malfunctions, data errors.  Why not just set the driver up at a terminal?

Umm..not sure you get what I mean. Sure, you can take this a few steps further: shield off the driver from any interferences in the room his real body is, so e.g. he can't ask his boss what to do and things like that. You can put him in a terminal just like an avatar driver etc. My point was simply to compare the kind of "transferring consciousness" that's going on here. I.e. I don't think consciousness is a thing that you can take out of the human body, transport through space, and put into the avatar, like a "soul" or something. But Jake's consciousness is where the Avatar is in the sense that he's receiving the inputs from the avatar, and not from what's happening around him.
Well Tsu'roen made good points on that issue in the post above.

Quote
Why would it be "DANGEROUS" to unlink unexpectedly?  These things come up in the film.

...But that is of course a different question. I don't know. (I would have said dramaturgy. :P Since nothing dangerous actually ever happens. Although Tsu'roen made a good point about the Avatar being in danger.)

Quote
J.C. said in one of his many interviews that this film is part fantasy.  There may be scientific principles applied to a point, but there simply is not technology or scientific understanding enough to manifest real understanding of things like Eywa, floating mountains, or the ISV without considering major components of them completely implausible.  So many discussions here ride that fence a ton.

Well okay then, I have no problem with filing some of the happenings under "supernatural". I just wanna discuss if they are or not.
Which fence are the discussions here riding a ton? That it's scientific?

Quote
Plot devices and McGuffins for the WIN... =)

What do you mean by that?
Ayoe lu aysamsiyu a plltxe "Ni" !
Aytìhawnu ayli'uyä aswok: "Ni", "Peng", si "Niiiew-wom" !

Offline Txur’Itan

  • Olo'eyktan
  • Palulukan Makto
  • *****
  • *
  • Posts: 3212
  • Karma: 82
  • fahewìri oe srìyevew txìmur...
    • CPN Skola
Re: Na'vi Afterlife
« Reply #122 on: February 14, 2010, 06:25:12 pm »
Quote
Quote
Quote
The 'separation of consciousness' or even 'separation of spirit from body' idea comes up a lot in the movie. For instance - when a human controls an avatar body, is that persons spirit / consciousness removed from their body and 'transplanted' into the avatar? It certainly appears that way.

I would have said yes, but only in the same way a person who's sitting in the control room remote-controlling that bulldozer has his consciousness transferred to the bulldozer. Say he didn't only see through the camera, but also hear through microphones, and maybe even feel through touch sensors.

That would imply an incomplete input output structure for the AVTR, and be susceptible to interference, malfunctions, data errors.  Why not just set the driver up at a terminal?

Umm..not sure you get what I mean. Sure, you can take this a few steps further: shield off the driver from any interferences in the room his real body is, so e.g. he can't ask his boss what to do and things like that. You can put him in a terminal just like an avatar driver etc. My point was simply to compare the kind of "transferring consciousness" that's going on here. I.e. I don't think consciousness is a thing that you can take out of the human body, transport through space, and put into the avatar, like a "soul" or something. But Jake's consciousness is where the Avatar is in the sense that he's receiving the inputs from the avatar, and not from what's happening around him.
Well Tsu'roen made good points on that issue in the post above.

I will chalk this up to a Plot Device for the time being, since we only know pain transfers back when the AVTR dies...

Quote
Why would it be "DANGEROUS" to unlink unexpectedly?  These things come up in the film.
...But that is of course a different question. I don't know. (I would have said dramaturgy. :P Since nothing dangerous actually ever happens. Although Tsu'roen made a good point about the Avatar being in danger.)
Quote from: Tsu'roen
Interrupting the link is not so dangerous for the driver but for the Avatar. Imagine the Avatar in a situation like Jake's trip up Iknimaya or while riding an Ikran. If the link is cut in such a situation the Avatar will most likely be lost. The driver may get a mental trauma under certain situations like when the Avatar is seriously injured or killed. But an interruption of the link will most likely only cause a momentary disorientation.

Also the drivers consciousness stays in his body during the link. Being linked to the Avatar is more like being in a very vivid dream. You can see that during Jake's first link session when they show Jake in the link and how his eyes move rapidly like in REM sleep.

If there was a complete transfer/upload of the driver's consciousness into the Avatar body it would have some implications:
- The link wouldn't need to be maintained but only be used for the actual transfer in and out
- If the Avatar is killed while the driver is linked up both will die and the driver's body will stay behind like an unconscious Avatar.
- If the the driver is killed while linked up he will be "trapped" in the Avatar body without a chance to return.

I think so as well, and I would agree those points based one what I am able to discern from the film...  Howeever, Protecting/preserving the AVTR, but that really does not strike me as something that would be an explicit danger element to the driver, unless their lives were less valuable than the AVTR, which would be lost if the Driver died, or was injured in some fashion.

Quote
J.C. said in one of his many interviews that this film is part fantasy.  There may be scientific principles applied to a point, but there simply is not technology or scientific understanding enough to manifest real understanding of things like Eywa, floating mountains, or the ISV without considering major components of them completely implausible.  So many discussions here ride that fence a ton.
Well okay then, I have no problem with filing some of the happenings under "supernatural". I just wanna discuss if they are or not.

Which fence are the discussions here riding a ton?
That it's scientific?

I think it is useful to classify all perspectives and discuss them for now but keep the response targeted to the focus of the classification of the dissections. 

Since the origins, nature, design, power, ability, spiritual context of Eywa is not completely transparent at this time, anything is fair game except critique of the approach. 

We are leaning heavily on observation, analysis, discussion which seems scientific, but this approach is missing testing and control factors (being a movie, and Eywa as a fictional entity thus far). 

We can discuss philosophically, but I think there are missing components of the way of the Na'vi, and the way of Eywa to do anything except debate our own points of view. 

We can talk theology, but the way Eywa works, is different from our own interactions/conversations/revalations with a Goddess/God/Allah/Murti/Kami/Yawe/Jehovah/Gaia/Poseidon/Tiamat.

To further simplify my point without adding miles of text: to say Eywa is biological is a theory, to say Eywa is a Deity is a Theological faith, to say "Eywa thinks therefore she is" would be a philosophical approach. 

Quote
Plot devices and McGuffins for the WIN... =)

What do you mean by that?

"Plot devices" are methods of altering reality within a story to suit a story telling or "dramaturgy" as you have put it, albeit more interesting, is not common for movie discussions, but they are equivalent in meaning I think.

"McGuffins" are objects that serve as a plot element item some times as a central focus of the story (unobtanium, Jake's wheel chair, the Dragon, the AVTR)

"For the WIN" or FTW is an idiom, it implies in this context, add new plot devices and McGuffins for successful story telling (more or less).
私は太った男だ。


Offline Tsu'roen

  • Taronyu
  • ****
  • Posts: 566
  • Karma: 22
Re: Na'vi Afterlife
« Reply #123 on: February 14, 2010, 06:52:09 pm »
...
Quote
Why would it be "DANGEROUS" to unlink unexpectedly?  These things come up in the film.
...But that is of course a different question. I don't know. (I would have said dramaturgy. :P Since nothing dangerous actually ever happens. Although Tsu'roen made a good point about the Avatar being in danger.)
Quote from: Tsu'roen
Interrupting the link is not so dangerous for the driver but for the Avatar. Imagine the Avatar in a situation like Jake's trip up Iknimaya or while riding an Ikran. If the link is cut in such a situation the Avatar will most likely be lost. The driver may get a mental trauma under certain situations like when the Avatar is seriously injured or killed. But an interruption of the link will most likely only cause a momentary disorientation.

Also the drivers consciousness stays in his body during the link. Being linked to the Avatar is more like being in a very vivid dream. You can see that during Jake's first link session when they show Jake in the link and how his eyes move rapidly like in REM sleep.

If there was a complete transfer/upload of the driver's consciousness into the Avatar body it would have some implications:
- The link wouldn't need to be maintained but only be used for the actual transfer in and out
- If the Avatar is killed while the driver is linked up both will die and the driver's body will stay behind like an unconscious Avatar.
- If the the driver is killed while linked up he will be "trapped" in the Avatar body without a chance to return.

I think so as well, and I would agree those points based one what I am able to discern from the film...  Howeever, Protecting/preserving the AVTR, but that really does not strike me as something that would be an explicit danger element to the driver, unless their lives were less valuable than the AVTR, which would be lost if the Driver died, or was injured in some fashion.

Well, a human life on earth is probably of little value - there are just too many.
As for the value of the Avatar and the driver: The Avatar is insanely expensive but completely useless without the driver. So as long as there are both, both are equally in value = the value of the Avatar + shipping.
As soon as the Avatar is lost the driver has mostly lost his value - especially in Jakes case as he is not a scientist or can do anything else of value for the RDA operations on Pandora.
"There are many dangers on Pandora, and one of the subtlest is that you may come to love it too much" ~ Dr. Grace Augustine

"You have a strong heart. No fear. But stupid!  Ignorant like a child!" ~ Neytiri te Tskaha Mo'at’ite

10x (1x 2D, 3x Real 3D, 6x IMAX 3D)
1x Special Ed. (1x IMAX 3D)

Offline Txur’Itan

  • Olo'eyktan
  • Palulukan Makto
  • *****
  • *
  • Posts: 3212
  • Karma: 82
  • fahewìri oe srìyevew txìmur...
    • CPN Skola
Re: Na'vi Afterlife
« Reply #124 on: February 14, 2010, 06:59:16 pm »
-- SNIP

Well, a human life on earth is probably of little value - there are just too many.

That happens now, but I doubt individuals think that of them selves. (Being of little value)

As for the value of the Avatar and the driver: The Avatar is insanely expensive but completely useless without the driver. So as long as there are both, both are equally in value = the value of the Avatar + shipping.

ROFLMAO! + Shipping and handling...

As soon as the Avatar is lost the driver has mostly lost his value - especially in Jakes case as he is not a scientist or can do anything else of value for the RDA operations on Pandora.

Definitely...

--------

Getting circled back to the topic, AVTR/NA'VI/HUMANS joining with Eywa in the Pandora afterlife.  What is going on with Grace, I think she might be part of a collective now.
私は太った男だ。


Offline Tsu'roen

  • Taronyu
  • ****
  • Posts: 566
  • Karma: 22
Re: Na'vi Afterlife
« Reply #125 on: February 14, 2010, 07:15:38 pm »
I think she is - I actually think Eywa decided to keep her instead of finishing the transfer. I mean it was for sure the first alien consciousness that ever got in direct contact with her. And Grace's mind was surely interesting for Eywa. The explanation that her wounds were to great doesn't add up since the upload obviously worked just fine ..

And what happened to Grace's Avatar? It didn't die but just kept sleeping. Did the Na'vi keep it alive? In that case there may still be a chance that Grace returns one day.
"There are many dangers on Pandora, and one of the subtlest is that you may come to love it too much" ~ Dr. Grace Augustine

"You have a strong heart. No fear. But stupid!  Ignorant like a child!" ~ Neytiri te Tskaha Mo'at’ite

10x (1x 2D, 3x Real 3D, 6x IMAX 3D)
1x Special Ed. (1x IMAX 3D)

Offline Txur’Itan

  • Olo'eyktan
  • Palulukan Makto
  • *****
  • *
  • Posts: 3212
  • Karma: 82
  • fahewìri oe srìyevew txìmur...
    • CPN Skola
Re: Na'vi Afterlife
« Reply #126 on: February 14, 2010, 07:21:32 pm »
I think she is - I actually think Eywa decided to keep her instead of finishing the transfer. I mean it was for sure the first alien consciousness that ever got in direct contact with her. And Grace's mind was surely interesting for Eywa. The explanation that her wounds were to great doesn't add up since the upload obviously worked just fine ..

And what happened to Grace's Avatar? It didn't die but just kept sleeping. Did the Na'vi keep it alive? In that case there may still be a chance that Grace returns one day.


In the mean time, what is going on in there...  What is she doing?
私は太った男だ。


Offline Tsu'roen

  • Taronyu
  • ****
  • Posts: 566
  • Karma: 22
Re: Na'vi Afterlife
« Reply #127 on: February 14, 2010, 08:09:39 pm »
I wonder if they still have to feed it.
Yes

That wasn't in the 2007 script - it was in the original scriptum.

That would be an interesting twist.

In the mean time, what is going on in there...  What is she doing?
Perfecting her Na'vi, learning everything about the history of Pandora from first hand sources, getting all the insight into Eywa ... a scientist's wet dream.
"There are many dangers on Pandora, and one of the subtlest is that you may come to love it too much" ~ Dr. Grace Augustine

"You have a strong heart. No fear. But stupid!  Ignorant like a child!" ~ Neytiri te Tskaha Mo'at’ite

10x (1x 2D, 3x Real 3D, 6x IMAX 3D)
1x Special Ed. (1x IMAX 3D)

Offline Tìng Eywatikìte'e

  • Moderator Emeritus
  • Palulukan Makto
  • *****
  • Posts: 1305
  • Karma: 60
  • Resident Xenoanthropologist
    • My Deviantart
Re: Na'vi Afterlife
« Reply #128 on: February 15, 2010, 12:07:43 pm »
Interrupting the link is not so dangerous for the driver but for the Avatar. Imagine the Avatar in a situation like Jake's trip up Iknimaya or while riding an Ikran. If the link is cut in such a situation the Avatar will most likely be lost. The driver may get a mental trauma under certain situations like when the Avatar is seriously injured or killed. But an interruption of the link will most likely only cause a momentary disorientation.

I disagree with you a little bit here. I think it's rather clear that there is some danger for the driver as well to disrupt a link in progress. Norm was very worried when Quaritch came in the first time, even though he knew that Jake was just with the Na'vi and would be protected if his link was severed, at this moment he was more worried about Jake the driver. Since they were interrupted twice in the film I think it safe to say that the risk is low, but still something to worry about.
Oeri lu Eywayä 'eveng


Offline Tsu'roen

  • Taronyu
  • ****
  • Posts: 566
  • Karma: 22
Re: Na'vi Afterlife
« Reply #129 on: February 15, 2010, 04:38:49 pm »
Interrupting the link is not so dangerous for the driver but for the Avatar. Imagine the Avatar in a situation like Jake's trip up Iknimaya or while riding an Ikran. If the link is cut in such a situation the Avatar will most likely be lost. The driver may get a mental trauma under certain situations like when the Avatar is seriously injured or killed. But an interruption of the link will most likely only cause a momentary disorientation.

I disagree with you a little bit here. I think it's rather clear that there is some danger for the driver as well to disrupt a link in progress. Norm was very worried when Quaritch came in the first time, even though he knew that Jake was just with the Na'vi and would be protected if his link was severed, at this moment he was more worried about Jake the driver. Since they were interrupted twice in the film I think it safe to say that the risk is low, but still something to worry about.
No, you are wrong!
Norm didn't know that Jake's and Grace's Avatar were safe. How could he? They could have been out on a branch of Hometree or in another shaky situation. As a matter of fact Jake was in the middle of a fight with Tsu'tey and Jake's Avatar would have been lost without Neytiri's intervention.

The only safe place for an  unconscious Avatar is on the Hell's Gate compound or when the driver has "parked" it in a "safe location" (e.g. hammock) and comes out of link on his own timing. And even that isn't guaranteed - see destruction of the Tree of Voices where Jake's Avatar would have been lost if Neytiri had not hauled it out of the way of the falling trees (she sooo owns his blue a..). At any time out on Pandora they are in danger by default.
"There are many dangers on Pandora, and one of the subtlest is that you may come to love it too much" ~ Dr. Grace Augustine

"You have a strong heart. No fear. But stupid!  Ignorant like a child!" ~ Neytiri te Tskaha Mo'at’ite

10x (1x 2D, 3x Real 3D, 6x IMAX 3D)
1x Special Ed. (1x IMAX 3D)

Offline Tsa'räni

  • Omatikaya
  • ****
  • Posts: 466
  • Karma: 20
Re: Na'vi Afterlife
« Reply #130 on: February 15, 2010, 05:16:48 pm »
I have to agree that Norm's reaction to interrupting a link feels, at least in part, like there may be some risk to the driver.

Offline Tsu'roen

  • Taronyu
  • ****
  • Posts: 566
  • Karma: 22
Re: Na'vi Afterlife
« Reply #131 on: February 15, 2010, 06:54:19 pm »
Of course he made it look as dangerous as possible to keep Quaritch from interrupting the link.
"There are many dangers on Pandora, and one of the subtlest is that you may come to love it too much" ~ Dr. Grace Augustine

"You have a strong heart. No fear. But stupid!  Ignorant like a child!" ~ Neytiri te Tskaha Mo'at’ite

10x (1x 2D, 3x Real 3D, 6x IMAX 3D)
1x Special Ed. (1x IMAX 3D)

Offline Tsa'räni

  • Omatikaya
  • ****
  • Posts: 466
  • Karma: 20
Re: Na'vi Afterlife
« Reply #132 on: February 15, 2010, 07:37:14 pm »
Of course he made it look as dangerous as possible to keep Quaritch from interrupting the link.

Are you basing this on some kind of canon information, or is this just your opinion?

Offline Tsu'roen

  • Taronyu
  • ****
  • Posts: 566
  • Karma: 22
Re: Na'vi Afterlife
« Reply #133 on: February 15, 2010, 08:26:34 pm »
Plain logic
"There are many dangers on Pandora, and one of the subtlest is that you may come to love it too much" ~ Dr. Grace Augustine

"You have a strong heart. No fear. But stupid!  Ignorant like a child!" ~ Neytiri te Tskaha Mo'at’ite

10x (1x 2D, 3x Real 3D, 6x IMAX 3D)
1x Special Ed. (1x IMAX 3D)

Offline Tìng Eywatikìte'e

  • Moderator Emeritus
  • Palulukan Makto
  • *****
  • Posts: 1305
  • Karma: 60
  • Resident Xenoanthropologist
    • My Deviantart
Re: Na'vi Afterlife
« Reply #134 on: February 15, 2010, 08:31:49 pm »
Everything we discuss here about the movie is opinion based unless we have canon confirmation.

In my opinion it appeared Norm was worried about the driver. Jake is his friend, he is probably more worried about his mind than the Avatar body.

Of course right now we have no way of knowing either way.

Tsu'roen, unless you have canonical information please refrain from shouting "your wrong" at people. Even if you do have specific canonical info you should correct people in a more polite manner. Your "plain logic" is different from other people's. Everyone sees things a bit differently. Just because you think it, doesn't make it fact.
Oeri lu Eywayä 'eveng


Offline Technowraith

  • Palulukan Makto
  • *****
  • Posts: 1118
  • Karma: 69
Re: Na'vi Afterlife
« Reply #135 on: February 15, 2010, 09:03:26 pm »
No, you are wrong!
Norm didn't know that Jake's and Grace's Avatar were safe. How could he? They could have been out on a branch of Hometree or in another shaky situation. As a matter of fact Jake was in the middle of a fight with Tsu'tey and Jake's Avatar would have been lost without Neytiri's intervention.

The only safe place for an  unconscious Avatar is on the Hell's Gate compound or when the driver has "parked" it in a "safe location" (e.g. hammock) and comes out of link on his own timing. And even that isn't guaranteed - see destruction of the Tree of Voices where Jake's Avatar would have been lost if Neytiri had not hauled it out of the way of the falling trees (she sooo owns his blue a..). At any time out on Pandora they are in danger by default.

Jake wasn't in a fight with Tsu-tey when the link was interrupted. He was talking to Eytukan and Mo'at about leaving Hometree. It was after Jake collapsed to the ground that Tsu-tey made his move. Neytiri intervened to prevent Tsu-tey from harming Jake.

In a way, it makes sense to be very careful when the link is cut. Obviously if you're riding an ikran and you're disconnected, it's not gonna be pretty. Remember, it's not the fall that kills ya. It's the landing. Which brings up a possible new thread topic: What happens when you disconnect link when tsayhalu-ed to an ikran, pa'li or anything else? In any case, we know that it's not good to interrupt the link. That we know for sure.

Yes, Pandora is exceptionally dangerous. Therefore we should infer that Avatars are "parked" in safe places. I know i'd hate to lose mine if i had one.
See that shadow? It's the last one you're gonna see.

Tsmukan fa kxetse anawm

Offline Tsu'roen

  • Taronyu
  • ****
  • Posts: 566
  • Karma: 22
Re: Na'vi Afterlife
« Reply #136 on: February 15, 2010, 09:16:55 pm »
Yes you are right, the fight was over (I confused that with the script) - though without Neytiri's intervention it wouldn't have made any difference.

For your second point: one thing that comes to my mind is Grace mentioning that the link she assigned to Jake in the shack was the least glitchy. So it seems that link interruptions are a known issue - at least that close to the flux vertex.
"There are many dangers on Pandora, and one of the subtlest is that you may come to love it too much" ~ Dr. Grace Augustine

"You have a strong heart. No fear. But stupid!  Ignorant like a child!" ~ Neytiri te Tskaha Mo'at’ite

10x (1x 2D, 3x Real 3D, 6x IMAX 3D)
1x Special Ed. (1x IMAX 3D)

Offline Mithcoriel

  • 'Eveng
  • ***
  • Posts: 266
  • Karma: 10
Re: Na'vi Afterlife
« Reply #137 on: February 16, 2010, 03:57:49 pm »
Of course he made it look as dangerous as possible to keep Quaritch from interrupting the link.

Are you basing this on some kind of canon information, or is this just your opinion?

I have to admit, to me it also sounded like Norm meant there would be dangers to the driver. But there's no logical support for this in the plot.

In the script, Trudy warned Norm through the walkie hat Quaritc was coming. And Norm "looked at the sleeping bodies of Grace and Jake, with no way to warn them". He certainly did have the motive of stopping Quaritch from interrupting the link. The question is how much of his motivation was that, and how much of it was genuine danger to the drivers.

Quote
For your second point: one thing that comes to my mind is Grace mentioning that the link she assigned to Jake in the shack was the least glitchy. So it seems that link interruptions are a known issue - at least that close to the flux vertex.


To me it seems they did that mostly for dramaturgy: to ensure Jake would be in the last link, so when Quaritch smashed one in the end, he wouldn't be in it.

Speaking of this stuff: When Jake fell asleep in the hammock next to Neytiri, he wakes up to see Grace trying to wake him up with a flashlight. And the link is open. What the heck were they doing there, actually? If they wanted to wake him up, why not shut down the link? If that's somehow dangerous, why should't this method be? (Hm, that might be worth a whole new thread..)
Ayoe lu aysamsiyu a plltxe "Ni" !
Aytìhawnu ayli'uyä aswok: "Ni", "Peng", si "Niiiew-wom" !

Offline Technowraith

  • Palulukan Makto
  • *****
  • Posts: 1118
  • Karma: 69
Re: Na'vi Afterlife
« Reply #138 on: February 16, 2010, 04:02:57 pm »
Speaking of this stuff: When Jake fell asleep in the hammock next to Neytiri, he wakes up to see Grace trying to wake him up with a flashlight. And the link is open. What the heck were they doing there, actually? If they wanted to wake him up, why not shut down the link? If that's somehow dangerous, why should't this method be? (Hm, that might be worth a whole new thread..)

They probably didn't want to interrupt the link unexpectedly. They probably didn't know exactly where Jake was or what he was doing. For all they knew, Jake may have been trying to find a safe spot to sleep for the night out in the forest. They didn't know he was at Hometree yet. When you exit link, the module can either open on its own or be opened by the driver. Maybe when Jake went out of link, the module shutdown but didn't open. So the others may have opened it and then checked on jake to make sure he was ok.
See that shadow? It's the last one you're gonna see.

Tsmukan fa kxetse anawm

Offline Mithcoriel

  • 'Eveng
  • ***
  • Posts: 266
  • Karma: 10
Re: Na'vi Afterlife
« Reply #139 on: February 16, 2010, 07:57:14 pm »
No, they look like they've been trying to wake him up for quite a while. Also, we don't see them opening the top. There's no reason to leave that part away, since there's no time jump there. Pretty much as soon as Jake falls asleep in hometree, he wakes up in the link, with, it seems, the cover already open, and Grace already shining the flashlight.
Ayoe lu aysamsiyu a plltxe "Ni" !
Aytìhawnu ayli'uyä aswok: "Ni", "Peng", si "Niiiew-wom" !

 

Become LearnNavi's friend on Facebook Follow LearnNavi on Twitter! Watch LearnNavi's videos on YouTube

SMF 2.0.15 | SMF © 2017, Simple Machines | XHTML | RSS | WAP2 | Site Rules

LearnNavi is not affiliated with the official Avatar website,
James Cameron, or the Twentieth Century-Fox Film Corporation.
All trademarks and servicemarks are the properties of their respective owners.
Images in the LearnNavi.org Forums and Gallery may not be used without permission.

LearnNavi Affiliates:
ToS

LearnNavi is the community to learn Na'vi, the Avatar Language
"A place where real friendships are made." -Paul Frommer

AvatarMeet | Learn Na'vi Forum | Learn Na'vi Wiki | Na'viteri

LearnNavi