Na'vi Afterlife

[Tsu'roen]

Speaking of this stuff: When Jake fell asleep in the hammock next to Neytiri, he wakes up to see Grace trying to wake him up with a flashlight. And the link is open. What the heck were they doing there, actually? If they wanted to wake him up, why not shut down the link? If that's somehow dangerous, why should't this method be? (Hm, that might be worth a whole new thread..)

They probably didn't want to interrupt the link unexpectedly. They probably didn't know exactly where Jake was or what he was doing. For all they knew, Jake may have been trying to find a safe spot to sleep for the night out in the forest. They didn't know he was at Hometree yet. When you exit link, the module can either open on its own or be opened by the driver. Maybe when Jake went out of link, the module shutdown but didn't open. So the others may have opened it and then checked on jake to make sure he was ok.

It's more likely that there was a bit of lag between Jake coming out of link and him waking up. Keep in mind that he was in link for quiet some time - probably longer than normal. Also the link monitor shows if the driver is in link or out. You see that when Jake links up for the first time.  And of course Grace was worried what happened to him. So she and the link techs were monitoring his status and knew immediately when he was coming out. And that's when she opened the link. But it must have taken Jake a few seconds to find back into his own brain and that caused the impression that they had the link open.
In fact it shouldn't be possible to open an active link since the container with the driver slides into the MRI scanner and therefore blocks the lid.
Even when Quaritch interrupted the link he did that only by hitting the emergency stop and only opened the lid after the container was out.

BTW: The existence of that emergency stop actually proofs that it can't be life-threatening to the driver to interrupt the link by using it. If it could harm the driver it couldn't be there (unless safety regulations have changed dramatically)

And why did Grace not interrupt the link? She knew that the Avatar was in danger. But as long as Jake was in link it was still alive and most likely not severely wounded. So it was the lower risk just to wait.  

[Mithcoriel]

Ma Tsu'ruoen: Yeah, what you say makes sense, with the lag and stuff.

I know Grace didn't interrupt the link because of the danger. Assuming Jake was busy running from a wild animal, it would be stupid to wake him up, that would cause them to loose the Avatar.

Oh, did we get off topic? Na'vi afterlife...
One thing to note also, is how the Na'vi pray that the spirit of every animal they kill will "run with Eywa". And then they eat the animal. So how does the animal's spirit get to Eywa, if they don't do the whole burial thing? Rather than just assume it's all Na'vi superstition and the animal doesn't get to Eywa like they do, I'd like to think there's more to this. Eywa must be able to get those "souls" some other way.

[Tsa'räni]

BTW: The existence of that emergency stop actually proofs that it can't be life-threatening to the driver to interrupt the link by using it. If it could harm the driver it couldn't be there (unless safety regulations have changed dramatically)

Evidence that it's probably not life threatening, but it doesn't speak to the possibility that there could still be some danger to the driver.

[Technowraith]

Ma Tsu'ruoen: Yeah, what you say makes sense, with the lag and stuff.

I know Grace didn't interrupt the link because of the danger. Assuming Jake was busy running from a wild animal, it would be stupid to wake him up, that would cause them to loose the Avatar.

Oh, did we get off topic? Na'vi afterlife...
One thing to note also, is how the Na'vi pray that the spirit of every animal they kill will "run with Eywa". And then they eat the animal. So how does the animal's spirit get to Eywa, if they don't do the whole burial thing? Rather than just assume it's all Na'vi superstition and the animal doesn't get to Eywa like they do, I'd like to think there's more to this. Eywa must be able to get those "souls" some other way.

Yeah... we wandered off topic as usual. LoL  

I'm thinking that more information about the na'vi culture will be coming out as the sequels are made. This is something we know next to nothing about.

[magne]

BTW: The existence of that emergency stop actually proofs that it can't be life-threatening to the driver to interrupt the link by using it. If it could harm the driver it couldn't be there (unless safety regulations have changed dramatically)

Evidence that it's probably not life threatening, but it doesn't speak to the possibility that there could still be some danger to the driver.

It might be psychological issues with interrupting the link, not a large problem but a real risk so you avoid it, and naturally very dangerous to the expensive avatar.
Having your avatar killed while you are driving it could easy give psychological problems; Last thing you remember was being eaten alive. 

[Toruk Makto]

Topic, rutxe!

[Zefanaya]

Topic, rutxe!

Actually, it part of that last post might be on topic. Forgive me is this is total repost but I've been away from this board for a very long time.

First a question? Was it ever determined that a Avatar had any link to Eywa (meaning a spirit)? If an Avatar had a spirit and it was killed through an error while in the link, what would happen to it. Just vanish, or would it be possible for any of it to live on in Eywa. I know that the avatar is supposed to be a blank slate, but I wonder how much of a conscious could develop. Probably a stupid question, but is had bothered me for a really long time.

[Toruk Makto]

I can't remember anything in the film other than Jake can hear the Na'vi ancestors at the Trees of Voices. Not sure if that qualifies...

[Human No More]

BTW: The existence of that emergency stop actually proofs that it can't be life-threatening to the driver to interrupt the link by using it. If it could harm the driver it couldn't be there (unless safety regulations have changed dramatically)

Evidence that it's probably not life threatening, but it doesn't speak to the possibility that there could still be some danger to the driver.

There's this discussion on the emergency stop button - the idea is that it's dangerous, but a smaller risk compared to something that might definitely kill the driver (e.g. a fire or decompression).

[Maria TunVrrtep]

Oh, did we get off topic? Na'vi afterlife...
One thing to note also, is how the Na'vi pray that the spirit of every animal they kill will "run with Eywa". And then they eat the animal. So how does the animal's spirit get to Eywa, if they don't do the whole burial thing? Rather than just assume it's all Na'vi superstition and the animal doesn't get to Eywa like they do, I'd like to think there's more to this. Eywa must be able to get those "souls" some other way.

I'm going to chime in here.  I haven't read the entire thread, but something caught my eye about the way the Na'vi pray for the animals spirit to run with Eywa. 
This is very similar to many historic Native American practices when there was a hunt.  The Native American's realized that everything is part of the grand design.  They understood that everything has a soul.  To a Native American even rocks have souls. 
Many pagans have similar beliefs.  I have personally felt the soul of some rocks.  They really do have an energy source that is spiritual.  Many rocks will actually talk to someone who knows how to listen.  Happens to me all the time. 
Anyway, the Native Americans would dance for a good hunt, then dance for a successful hunt, and that included letting the animals spirits go to Mother Earth and Father Sky.
Just my Pagan POV.
ta TunVrrtep

[moohug4]

I think that it would be as if they just joined nature. For example, if one died, they're energy flow would join the flow of the rest of the forest. It wouldn't go anywhere, just spread out among everything. Like diffusion, of energy, if that makes sense.

[Tsmuktengan]

I think that it would be as if they just joined nature. For example, if one died, they're energy flow would join the flow of the rest of the forest. It wouldn't go anywhere, just spread out among everything. Like diffusion, of energy, if that makes sense.

Sorry for necroposting, but I never had the time to think/post here. (Ooops, just saw it was one month old already).

I think the same about this, and thought the movie to be clear and quite simple about this. It seems to me someone who passed out lost the energy he needed for life, but his body itself can still be a source of energy when returned to nature. The body is "recycled" and benefits for the surrounding plants and earth.

The conscious part seems to be going to "Eywa", and it appears to be able to hear these consciouses in the Tree of Voices. But I have no idea if there is an afterlife or not. I see no clue.

[Aytanin Marali]

Well, when grace died it was said she "went to eywa" grace said you no "I am with her" etc.

So it could be a state of peace or you are maybe spiritually stored in the tree of souls with the other ancestors of the Na'vi

kind of like heaven almost

just less far fetched :-P

Heaven is not so far-fetched.

I do wonder how the animals join Eywa without the seeds of the sacred tree.  Also when Hometree falls, the camera shows several Na'vi underneath it and then the screen goes black for a second as if to say "and the Na'vi you just saw were crushed by the falling tree" before moving on.  What about them?  I mean, good luck getting Hometree off their bodies and what would be left anyway?  What happens to their souls?  There has to be a way to put their souls into Eywa without the sacred spirits.

[Tsmuktengan]

Hmm, good question. I have no idea.

[Human No More]

Well, when grace died it was said she "went to eywa" grace said you no "I am with her" etc.

So it could be a state of peace or you are maybe spiritually stored in the tree of souls with the other ancestors of the Na'vi

kind of like heaven almost

just less far fetched :-P

Heaven is not so far-fetched.

I do wonder how the animals join Eywa without the seeds of the sacred tree.  Also when Hometree falls, the camera shows several Na'vi underneath it and then the screen goes black for a second as if to say "and the Na'vi you just saw were crushed by the falling tree" before moving on.  What about them?  I mean, good luck getting Hometree off their bodies and what would be left anyway?  What happens to their souls?  There has to be a way to put their souls into Eywa without the sacred spirits.

Conservation of energy, for one

When someone dies, well, they had to have linked beforehand for some of their memory to be preserved - presumably everyone has by even a young age, but any memory since after last time would be lost when they die.

[Elektrolurch]

I wonder if their brains will also be flooded with DMT shortly before death.

[Pìrìtani te Parìksì Tina'ite]

I also believe that the energy is converted to be used by others after joining Eywa, while the mind and spirit watches over Pandora and its people.

As for the criminals who have had their braid cut off, I'm not sure what to think. There's a great possibility that they are rejected by Eywa as their way of linking to the world around them was removed. If this wasn't the case, why would the Na'vi cut off the braid of a criminal rather than kill him/her? I think perhaps having their connection with the Pandaren forest and Eywa taken from them is greater torture than losing their home or life because they are not allowed to stand by Eywa in the Afterlife.

This is in no way the truth, just an idea that I thought about after watching the movie and reading the other responses here. It's also possible that the mind and spirit dies with the body when the energy is returned to Eywa as a criminal. I'm curious to know how those who are unable to be retrieved (e.g. the Na'vi who were crushed by Hometree when it fell) are returned to Eywa.

[Niri Te]

 But what about Tsu' tey, having his tswin cut off by Quaritch, before THAT criminal was sent straight to Hell by Neytiri?

[Ertew]

Eywa can import part of Grace's memory and transfer Jake's spirit while they don't have tswin. Na'vi without tswin should also be able to connect to Eywa. Not in way that usual Na'vis can do, but there is still a way to do that.

What about Tsu'tey, other killed Na'vis and maybe some peoples? For most of them there probably wasn't good time and place, but maybe for some of them, there was chance to connect before death and upload some memories. Next, I think that energy was able to return to nature after any death, except blow up. This happens at the moment of death or bury.