Author Topic: Na'vi archery technique  (Read 20163 times)

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Offline Ftiaronsem

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Na'vi archery technique
« on: January 16, 2010, 11:08:08 am »
kaltxì frapo

Recently I came to realize that the Na'vi strain their bows, with a twisted wrist. You can see it in this picture: http://4.bp.blogspot.com/_MnAnBkW83sw/Szcx9ZVVuBI/AAAAAAAAAQI/shXLObLFCQw/s1600-h/Avatar+-+Neytiri.jpg I have just never seen anyone handling a bow like that and I haven`t found any information about this technique on the web.

Therefore I am wondering, whether anyone of you knows something about it.

I just wonder whether this is something only the Na'vi can do because of different physiology, or whether humans use this  technique as well. Since the actors were specially trained amongst other things in archery, there might probably be some archery-clubs teaching this technique. If so, I would definitely like to join one ^^ ;-)

Hopefully you can help me out on this.

Thanks

b1

« Last Edit: January 17, 2010, 09:46:44 am by b1 »

Offline kintìomum

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Re: Na'vi archery technique
« Reply #1 on: January 17, 2010, 06:12:33 am »
A friend of mine said it was a technique used in japanese archery.
If I got him right the japanese original requires the archer to twist his shooting wrist while pulling the string to give the arrow a corkscrew-flightpath for better stability. *
Now, being quite fond of archery myself (and when watching the next time) I saw that the only thing the Na'vi do is to twist the wrist, they do not twirl the string.
Next step was trying to hold the wrist in Na'vi-style myself and I found that it got a very simple reason:
When you pull the string to the holding point (that's the point where you hold the arrow for a moment to take aim)and got your fingers with the inside of the hand towards your face you'll most likely scratch your face when releasing the arrow. Especially with a holding point so far back as with the Na'vi bows and the hand so close to the face.

* in the end this makes no sense since a twirled bowstring will not do the flight path any good at all. If you want a corkscrew for your arrows you use guiding feathers to achieve the spiraling motion.
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Offline Ftiaronsem

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Re: Na'vi archery technique
« Reply #2 on: January 17, 2010, 10:06:04 am »
Irayo txan nìtxan ma kintìomum

Thats indeed a logical explanation, if I get a chance I will try this out some day.

While searching this technique again, I stumbled on one small sentence in the Wikipedia-Article about the Mediterranean release: "The wrist is to be either straight or flexed away from the archer."(http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bow_draw) So it is very likely that this is really a valid archery technique.

Searching around on the net, I got the impression, that most bows aren`t meant to be drawn to a so far holding point. Do you know whether there is a special class of bows, for which this is usual?

Irayo

b1


Offline kintìomum

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Re: Na'vi archery technique
« Reply #3 on: January 17, 2010, 11:05:25 am »
I guess it is "common use" with longbows.
As far as I learned reaching the holding point is a question of the size of the bow and the size of the archer.
I got pretty long arms (what wonder at 6"6/2,02m) and the holding point for my favorite bow is somewhere near the tip of my nose when I hold the bow at arms length.
So, if you got especially large bows it might even be possible that your body just doesn't allow you to reach the holding point because it's somewhere behind your shoulder.
Well, you might reach it, but it will seriously mess with targeting...
Looking at the Na'vi, I don't think they encounter that kind of problem. Every bow they have is hand crafted for the archer and with a specific purpose in mind (used on foot while hunting, used from the back of a pa'li or even off an ikran).
I think it's more of a "tried-and-true" thing that the Na'vi create their bows with a holding point near the cheekbone. It provides quite a good sight along the arrow so that -if you get the right position- the arrow will really go where you point and you don't have to get used to aiming at some point off the target. That's at least as long as the target is so nice to stand still...
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Offline Swok Txon

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Re: Na'vi archery technique
« Reply #4 on: January 17, 2010, 07:45:56 pm »
kintìomum i was going to say the exact thing as my cousin use to study japanese archery and the styles seem very similar


Offline Technowraith

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Re: Na'vi archery technique
« Reply #5 on: January 18, 2010, 08:34:50 pm »
I've noticed that the Na'vi tend to overdraw their bows. Most typical draws on most bows will end with your shooting hand anywhere between your nose and your cheekbone. Overdraw is when you pull back further than you normally would. I tend to do it a lot, and i usually end up holding my shooting hand just at the ear or right around that area. For some, this may be normal. For others it isn't. Depends on what bow you use. Longbows allow for longer draws (Thus more power).

I use a simple long bow, and i've tried the Na'vi method. It takes a little getting used to, but it does work. Wouldn't recommend flexing your wrist away from your face if your wrist starts to hurt when you try it out. Evidently according to wikipedia it is a valid and tried archery method.
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Offline Tìng Eywatikìte'e

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Re: Na'vi archery technique
« Reply #6 on: January 19, 2010, 01:02:47 am »
My guess is that they wanted a method that still worked just as well, but wanted to look more alien, something unfamiliar for us to look at.
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Offline kintìomum

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Re: Na'vi archery technique
« Reply #7 on: January 19, 2010, 03:58:55 am »
Overdraw and an alien look might also explain why the Na'vi are using such large arrows. Most terran bows -as far as I know- have arrows roughly half the length of the bow but for the Na'vi the arrows are almost the same length as the bow.
Well, bigger arrow means more weight, more weigth means more punch... Definitely desirable when hunting armored food!
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Offline Technowraith

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Re: Na'vi archery technique
« Reply #8 on: January 19, 2010, 04:58:50 am »
Overdraw and an alien look might also explain why the Na'vi are using such large arrows. Most terran bows -as far as I know- have arrows roughly half the length of the bow but for the Na'vi the arrows are almost the same length as the bow.
Well, bigger arrow means more weight, more weigth means more punch... Definitely desirable when hunting armored food!

Also remember that a Na'vi longbow is roughly 8 feet long, since Na'vi are much taller than humans. with that in mind, their arrows will be at least 4-5 feet long. In human standards, 6 foot longbows have the capability of launching an arrow for 200-300 yards if shot correctly. A na'vi longbow could easily top that.
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Offline kintìomum

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Re: Na'vi archery technique
« Reply #9 on: January 19, 2010, 05:58:49 am »
Not really.
Pandora might have a lower gravity which would allow for even farther shots. But at the same time it's got a much denser atmosphere which drastically reduces the arrows flight due to friction. The atmosphere is described that a human is feeling "as if there's a wind blowing towards you even when the air is completely still" when he tries to run.
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Offline Tìng Eywatikìte'e

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Re: Na'vi archery technique
« Reply #10 on: January 19, 2010, 11:03:47 am »
What a weird combination. How would that work? A human feels lighter from the lighter gravity, but pushed down by the heavy atmosphere? Would it be kinda like walking through water? A lighter, almost floating feeling (though obviously not actually floating) but slow sluggish movements?
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Offline kintìomum

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Re: Na'vi archery technique
« Reply #11 on: January 19, 2010, 01:19:57 pm »
Kinda that.
You are able to lift greater weight since the gravity is "just" 0.8 Earth standard.
But because of the heavier gases (18+% carbon dioxide and several % Xenon) in the atmosphere it's like... hmm, very damp days I think.
If I remember the numbers from the ASG correctly the atmospherre is about 10 or 20% more dense. But the only comparision that comes to mind to feel such density is standing beside the freeway with a constant wave of air being pushed against you...
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Offline Tìng Eywatikìte'e

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Re: Na'vi archery technique
« Reply #12 on: January 19, 2010, 01:33:17 pm »
Very interesting. I wonder if they really show that in the film. We don't see humans running outside to much, but they would have to be running differently...
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Offline Swok Txon

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Re: Na'vi archery technique
« Reply #13 on: January 19, 2010, 03:22:27 pm »
yeah when i saw the movie for the second time i noticed that as well and i was like

"Why exactly are they walking like normal humans"

also, due to gravity being that bit lower in comparison to how quick and agile the Na'vi are

they must be IMMENSELY powerful and if they were put on earth for example a couple of things would happen

1. They would become shorter (only a few cm's or an inch)

2. They would be weaker and slower at first but in the end they would become stronger then on Pandora due to the higher resistance

Offline Technowraith

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Re: Na'vi archery technique
« Reply #14 on: January 19, 2010, 04:02:28 pm »
Very interesting. I wonder if they really show that in the film. We don't see humans running outside to much, but they would have to be running differently...

Thanator and Jake didn't seem to have too many issues with running. Jake running in his avatar body didn't seem to have many issues either. This may be due to the physical adaptations of the Na'vi physiology to overcome the weaker gravity and the thicker atmosphere. The one time i remember humans running: the battle at the tree of souls (in amp suits and also on foot as those on foot ran along the amp suits exiting the drop carrier). The ones on foot didn't seem too encumbered by a "heavier" (denser) atmosphere.
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Offline Tìng Eywatikìte'e

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Re: Na'vi archery technique
« Reply #15 on: January 20, 2010, 12:19:40 am »
Well yes, we wouldn't see Jake's Avatar body having any effect since his body is made for the atmosphere.

It's a little annoying that the humans don't show any effect in the final battle. Though they've probably have been training in the environment long enough that they have grown used to it. Perhaps we would only really notice it with a human who's just arrived on Pandora.

Though I don't remember the marines running off the shuttle at the beginning as movie sluggish, and they should be weak from the 6 years of cryo...hmmmm
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Offline A. A. Aaron

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Re: Na'vi archery technique
« Reply #16 on: January 20, 2010, 07:28:47 pm »
A 15% denser atmosphere would not have an immediate effect on a humans ability to move. You'd feel the difference, for sure but if you were watching a person run, you wouldn't see anything noteworthy. Think of it this way - as the gravity on Pandora is twenty percent less than the gravity on earth, you'd be able to lift twenty percent more, As Col. Quaritch demonstrated for us. With an atmosphere 15% (or so) denser than Earths atmosphere, it would be 15% more difficult to move through it. HOWEVER, as you 'weigh' 20% less, the difficulty in walking or running wouldn't feel like 15%, more like 8%. The low gravity would offset a portion of the added atmospheric density, and you wouldn't see as much effect.

I think the atmospheric pressure would be greater, given the increase in density. You'd feel it in your eardrums, like on an airplane when the cabin is pressurized.

Offline Tìng Eywatikìte'e

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Re: Na'vi archery technique
« Reply #17 on: January 20, 2010, 08:51:37 pm »
That would be one massive ear pop >.> But yeah that makes a lot of sense.
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Offline A. A. Aaron

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Re: Na'vi archery technique
« Reply #18 on: January 20, 2010, 09:10:01 pm »
That would be one massive ear pop >.>*snip*
Oh yeah. I actually guess that it might feel a little like being underwater - only less pressure, less even than you'd feel if you were barely submerged. 
Random and off topic, I know.
The 'running' example would also be true in the case of an arrow in flight. There would be additional aerodynamic drag, slowing the arrow down faster, but less gravity to act on it, partially offsetting that effect.

Offline gnátxere

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Re: Na'vi archery technique
« Reply #19 on: January 20, 2010, 09:29:40 pm »
i don't think the lower gravity would effect how fast it slowed down as much as the arc, and it'd only be slowed down who knows how little, also i wouldn't quote me but i think i remember reading one of the interviews somewhere and the actor said they were taking wushu archery or something like that which is a real archery style in the asia area, i think china or japan, the think i found most interesting about their archery is what hand they use though, i'm used to pulling back with my dominant hand while the na'vi use their dominant hand to hold tha bow itself, wondering about the significance in that and how it would effect your shooting and everything.

 

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