Na'vi Divorce? and other mating rituals discussion! (PG-13)

[Zefanaya]

Kaltxi, I was wondering if the Na'vi had the concept of some sort of divorce? I am also opening this as a general Na'vi mating ritual discussion thread, I have not seen many threads recently on this exact topic so forgive me if there is one dealing with this just let me know.

Eywa ngahu, ulte Eywa ayhawnuyu niwotx Na'via sì ayuniltìranyu.

[Nanaki]

Kaltxi, I was wondering if the Na'vi had the concept of some sort of divorce? I am also opening this as a general Na'vi mating ritual discussion thread, I have not seen many threads recently on this exact topic so forgive me if there is one dealing with this just let me know.

Eywa ngahu, ulte Eywa ayhawnuyu niwotx Na'via sì ayuniltìranyu.

Woah, I don't know, it's a good question, I hope not (Neytiri & Jake 4 ever )

[Neytiri lu sevin]

I hope not too cause this wouldn't be as awesome as its is presently 

[Nìwotxkrr Tìyawn]

I don't really think there would be any divorce, the point of mating by the tree was for Eywa to determine if they would be a good match for each other.

[Zefanaya]

I do belive that the mating by Utral Aymokriyä was to determine a good match, but things happen (also keep in mind that this is not just about Jake and Neytiri it is about the Na'vi in general), also what are some other rituals you think they practice (PG-13)? One question I also had was What happens if a mate dies since the mating process is for life does a Na'vi stay without a mate when their partner dies or do they look for another one? They appear to be open when it comes to death it is not something feared in their culture (<-- speculation) it is simply a returning of borrowed energy or tirey (life).

Eywa ngahu.

[guest2859]

Survivalist guide said that the Na'vi mate for life, so there really is no divorce methods.

[Tìng Eywatikìte'e]

Mate for life under normal circumstances. That doesn't mean that "divorce" is completely unheard of. Neytiri was ready to leave Jake when he betrayed the tribe, so it would make sense that if one member of the Na'vi did something particularly worthy of of punishment a "divorce" would be allowed.

[Zefanaya]

Mate for life under normal circumstances. That doesn't mean that "divorce" is completely unheard of. Neytiri was ready to leave Jake when he betrayed the tribe, so it would make sense that if one member of the Na'vi did something particularly worthy of of punishment a "divorce" would be allowed.

Irayo, I agree, I don;t think they would have a divorce in the since that you are legally not bonded to that person any more or have any kind of argument if a member committed a crime that was bad enough for punishment then I believe either the Olo'eyktan/Olo'eykte (depending on which clan) would separate them and or the mate that had not committed the crime would just tell the partner to leave and never speak to them again, how ever if the clan member committed a crime that heinous then I believe they would just be exiled and that takes care of that.

Eywa ngahu

[Rolyu]

I don't think the separation would happen very often, judging by their close-knit and uncommonly wholesome culture.  High Divorce rate (it has been said, don't bite my head off with this one! I know there are situations... ) is a sign of a failing society.  Their society is very strong, their values all based on common ground, and their family structure (the building block of a society) extremely solid.

An interesting thought: when Neytiri is leaving Jake for betraying the tribe, she tells him he is not Na'vi.  Perhaps a "divorce" of sorts is even more rare than we are thinking, because it could take an act unthinkable to a Na'vi to actually cause that separation.

Perhaps if two Na'vi are mated for life, if one partner does something wrong, their mate will stand by them no matter what.

But then you'd have to know which is greater, the loyalty to your partner or loyalty to your tribe?

[Tsa'räni]

My guess is that when you're mated for life, you're truly mated for life.  There's no way to undo that union.  I don't see that as necessitating that a mate must stand by their partner even if they've done something grievously wrong, though.  If the transgression is bad enough to warrant some kind of permanent separation (like they are exiled from the clan, or something), alright, but you're still mated and both partners are stuck with that.

Marriage and divorce aren't very good comparisons, as there is nothing with our species that compares to what we've heard about the Na'vi and tsaheylu between mates.

[Rolyu]

True.  Though according to Catholic religion, once you're (truly) married, you're married for life and you can never truly remarry.  Any relations that aren't with the one you married first are considered adultery.  (It gets more complicated that that, but you get the idea... XD)

But there's no Tsaheylu involved, so it is hard to compare.

[Zefanaya]

True.  Though according to Catholic religion, once you're (truly) married, you're married for life and you can never truly remarry.  Any relations that aren't with the one you married first are considered adultery.  (It gets more complicated that that, but you get the idea... XD)

But there's no Tsaheylu involved, so it is hard to compare.

True, I like the thought on how you are married for life, and your mate might stand by your decisions, I do think that loyalty to the tribe might way more, but without Tsaheylu we never could really understand that aspect of their culture, I do think that if one committed a crime that warranted them being exiled than you could have the chance to remarry but it could be viewed apon as some form of adultery.

Eywa ngahu

[Swokéyan]

I think Na'vi barely divorce no idea how that would happen though...

[Tsu'roen]

Well, Na'vi are obviously monogamous by nature so "divorce" is by default unnecessary.
Don't make the mistake to impose human standards on the Na'vi as humans are by their nature polygamous and monogamy is only a religious or cultural rule.
Also, as the system is laid out Na'vi mates are tested for compatibility by Eywa before the bond is made. So unless Eywa makes mistakes the mates should be a perfect match and the bond should last.
I'd say the bond between Na'vi mates only ends with the death of one of the mates.
Of course that leaves them always the option for a divorce Italian style

[Zefanaya]

Well, Na'vi are obviously monogamous by nature so "divorce" is by default unnecessary.
Don't make the mistake to impose human standards on the Na'vi as humans are by their nature polygamous and monogamy is only a religious or cultural rule.
Also, as the system is laid out Na'vi mates are tested for compatibility by Eywa before the bond is made. So unless Eywa makes mistakes the mates should be a perfect match and the bond should last.
I'd say the bond between Na'vi mates only ends with the death of one of the mates.
Of course that leaves them always the option for a divorce Italian style

LOL on the last part, yeah I agree that Eywa tests the bond I would like to see more of that process, it does seem that Eywa was or is on jakes side ever since her arrived on Pandora, sort of like she new Jake would finally set the Na'vi free after all jake should have been dead within about the first 30 min of the movie when Neytiri was about to shoot him the pure spirt or seed of the sacred tree came and stopped her, and brought him to home tree or set it up so he would end up there and then Mo'at the Tsahik was some what on his side and she appears to continuously be on his side, when Neytiri is telling Jake that he is not one of the people, just before Jake and Grace are bound, Mo'at starts a sentence "ma 'ite" possibly to ask Neytiri to reconsider or calm down, and even if it was just to console her 'ite that would signify that she wished Neytiri not to be angry at Jake if Mo'at did not like him she would have  said something in that scene to declare so. I still wonder though if when a mate die's do they ever choose another or not but so far the answer is no.

Irayo ulte Eywa ngahu sì may poe fyawìntxu us.

[Tìng Eywatikìte'e]

@ Roylu, while I agree that they are clearly a "wholesome" society I must disagree with the link between high divorce and a "failing" society. High divorce rates can merely mean that the society is going through a phase of cultural change, where old ideals no longer match up with the new.

Anywho

@ Tsu'roen

I wouldn't be so quick to assume the Na'vi monogamous nature. They biologically experience sexual dimorphism, the males are bigger than the females, which in nature normally is a sign that they aren't monogamous. The bigger the difference, the more mates they most likely take. The Na'vi have a similar sexual dimorphism to humans, which would suggest that they have similar sexual practice. So the Omatikaya could be culturally monogamous, but this may not be true of all Na'vi.  Of course being an alien planet this could all be speculation, but it was an idea that I wanted to through out there. 

[Hì'irawr]

I agree that high divorce rate is a sign that a cultures ideals are changing. Though, I believe that this isnt necessarily a good change for a culture to go through, but of course that oppinion is based upon the ideals I was raised on. So yahh....hmmm

Divorce is bad... It makes children sad : (

I wouldn't be so quick to assume the Na'vi monogamous nature. They biologically experience sexual dimorphism, the males are bigger than the females, which in nature normally is a sign that they aren't monogamous. The bigger the difference, the more mates they most likely take. The Na'vi have a similar sexual dimorphism to humans, which would suggest that they have similar sexual practice. So the Omatikaya could be culturally monogamous, but this may not be true of all Na'vi.  Of course being an alien planet this could all be speculation, but it was an idea that I wanted to through out there.

I totally agree with this statement. Some things that were going through my head while I was reading this topic: 1. The Na'vi probably don't have a divorce because they dont have a marriage by law, They experience something even more physically and mentally involved than the human equivalent of sex.  They do call it mating for a reason, and "mating" is a term used to describe any sort of creature intercourse. The Na'vi are creatures of free will, and are also most likely have an equivalent of a sex drive, to propagate their species. Sure its fine and dandy if they are a lovey dovey, one partner for life kind of tribe, but it seems like the "sexual dimorphism" and drive to make the good genetics flow.

Then again this is all speculation because, they get to experience true chocolate chip cookie closeness, like tsahaylu. Tsahaylu probably determines whether or not they are a monogamous species or not???

[Tsu'roen]

@ Tsu'roen

I wouldn't be so quick to assume the Na'vi monogamous nature. They biologically experience sexual dimorphism, the males are bigger than the females, which in nature normally is a sign that they aren't monogamous. The bigger the difference, the more mates they most likely take. The Na'vi have a similar sexual dimorphism to humans, which would suggest that they have similar sexual practice. So the Omatikaya could be culturally monogamous, but this may not be true of all Na'vi.  Of course being an alien planet this could all be speculation, but it was an idea that I wanted to through out there.  

I'm not assuming anything: "The Na'vi are monogamous creatures who mate for life" ASG page 30

Also, don't forget to consider the greater picture: the Na'vi live in a very stable environment and have a stable population. So in effect every pair has two children. More children are only required after losses through accidents, natural disasters, war, ...
We just don't know yet if this is a conscious decision or somehow regulated by Eywa.
So there is no need for aggressive procreation like it was for most of human history ...

[Hì'irawr]

Sorry for my naivetes, After I posted that I thought about the whole aggressive breeding thing and it didnt make much sense. They are indeed very stable as far as living conditions go, but they just went through war, which might induce a population explosion? Maybe they wouldnt break their monogamous relations with eachother, but babies may be a factor?

And like I said I dont think its appropriate to say they have a divorce or marriage, maybe something close, but very unlikely.

Thinking at this from a different angle. Ill get back about that

[Tsu'roen]

Being polygamous makes mostly sense if there is an imbalance of male and female and if the females have a long pregnancy and the males are not much involved in raising the offspring.
It looked to me like there were as many male as female Na'vi. Also both sexes are warriors and hunters so that losses during hunt and war also wouldn't really cause an imbalance.
Another factor is how much energy has to go into raising the children. I think in that department Na'vi children need about as much care as human children. Given that both, men and women are hunters I'd say both are equally involved in raising their children without any specific preference (though that's just a wild guess).
And so far - apart from a vague idea of the Na'vi sex - we don't know much about their reproduction. Though they have many of the markers of being placental mammals: belly button that indicates an umbilical cord (also seen in that function on the Avatar in their tanks) and obviously also mammary glands (breasts and nipples). I did not notice any pregnant woman but several babies so it may just not have been the right season and all babies were already born.

But one shouldn't forget that Na'vi are an alien species from an alien planet (or moon) and origin from a totally different alien evolutionary path in an alien environment. So any comparison with humans (just because they look human) is risky by default.