Na'vi laws?

[Tsa'räni]

Most likely guilt by association.  They made some distinction later, as they were willing to drag Grace's avatar along after she was disconnected.  Neytiri had already told Jake to never return and he'd seemingly been left behind, but Grace was walking with them when she fell.

[Elektrolurch]

The genius is talking to me again!


I also think they're not that emotional when punishing someone. In Austria, a bad-tempered police man can confiscate your car, when there's a smashed fly on the license tag. But if everyone would know about the crime a Na'vi committed, he would feel ashamed enough not to do it again.

[Tìng Eywatikìte'e]

Also, granted that Neytiri's father just died in front of her, so I doubt she was in her right mind. Jake also collapsed away from the group. Mo'at released them from their binds, so I'm guessing her word as Tsahík outweighs the Olo'ekytan in this manner and so their punishment was considered null-in-void. If Jake had collapsed near Mo'at I'm sure things would have gone differently, though I'm sure there were plenty members of the tribe willing to leave him behind at that moment.

Shame is a good thing to bring up. In most cultures that don't have formal laws, gossip and shame are the best way of keeping people in line.

[Tsu'roen]

Off-topic: We know Oceania from 1984. They also don't have laws, but expect the individual automatically to have the right opinions, the right thoughts, to do the right things.. you know what I mean?

Oh - they had laws! For example love (sexual attachment) was forbidden  - with the exception of the love for the Big Brother. Even tinking something wrong was a punishable offense and the Thinkpol was everywhere - even in your home via your mandatory televisor ...
Though laws (among other things) changed permanently so it was kind of hard keeping up ...
The goal was permanent fear

[Elektrolurch]

Death penalty is the best lesson for the next time.

Would it be possible, that, if a Na'vi committed several crimes, the others try to "cure" him? It's unbelievable how many similarities you can find between Pandora and George Orwell's 1984...

@Tsu'roen: NO, they don't have laws. I read the book about 5000 times, and it's said several times. Every inner and outer party member has to think the right thoughts, acts don't mind at all.

[Tsa'räni]

Also, granted that Neytiri's father just died in front of her, so I doubt she was in her right mind. Jake also collapsed away from the group. Mo'at released them from their binds, so I'm guessing her word as Tsahík outweighs the Olo'ekytan in this manner and so their punishment was considered null-in-void. If Jake had collapsed near Mo'at I'm sure things would have gone differently, though I'm sure there were plenty members of the tribe willing to leave him behind at that moment.

Yeah, that's a good point.  I just have a hard time seeing them dragging him along for some reason.  Mo'at cut his bonds and asked for his help, but I've always wondered exactly what she expected him to do.

[Elektrolurch]

Maybe she was the only one, who KNEW his love to the Na'vi. But... maybe they did something unrequested in the background

[Tìng Eywatikìte'e]

I always assumed that, as a wise woman, she would be thinking of the future, even in such a chaotic time. He couldn't really help then, but his knowledge of the Sky people proved to be invaluable later. By cutting his bonds, I thought, she was asking him to survive to help them later. She could see that he didn't want the destruction of Hometree and was ready to forgive him.

[Tsa'räni]

I always assumed that, as a wise woman, she would be thinking of the future, even in such a chaotic time. He couldn't really help then, but his knowledge of the Sky people proved to be invaluable later. By cutting his bonds, I thought, she was asking him to survive to help them later. She could see that he didn't want the destruction of Hometree and was ready to forgive him.

That would make sense.  It raises an interesting question, though, which is somewhat related to the Na'vi laws stuff.

If Jake had been taken with them to the Tree of Souls, with Tsu'tey becoming Olo'eyktan, would his punishment/crimes still be considered null and void?  On the one hand you'd have Mo'at, who in this case would presumably be on Jake's side, but I don't see Tsu'tey coming down on Jake's side there.

[Elektrolurch]

If that's true... Why was Mo'at surprised when she saw Toruk coming to them with Jake on his back? Her mind was totally blown away.

[Tsa'räni]

If that's true... Why was Mo'at surprised when she saw Toruk coming to them with Jake on his back? Her mind was totally blown away.

That part would still make sense.  Jake was left behind (fell away from the group) and after the big falling out, I doubt anyone really expected him to show up.  But then to show up as toruk makto, one of the central figures in Na'vi culture - well that's huge.

[Elektrolurch]

What if they all found out Mo'at freed him? That would be disturbing.

[Tsa'räni]

What if they all found out Mo'at freed him? That would be disturbing.

Yeah, that's along the lines of what I was considering a couple posts back.  If you take toruk makto out of the picture, which is all theory now, how would Mo'at freeing Jake work with the new Olo'eyktan probably not agreeing with it?  So in a more general sense, where do such judgments and decisions come from from, the Tsahik, Olo'eyktan, or both?  And if the last, what happens when they disagree?

[Elektrolurch]

That would be chaos and...maybe hate? But somehow, Jake would get back to the clan even if he hadn't tamed Toruk.

[Tsa'räni]

That would be chaos and...maybe hate? But somehow, Jake would get back to the clan even if he hadn't tamed Toruk.

Possibly, but the Na'vi don't strike me as overly prone to chaos like that.  The Tsahik and Olo'eyktan have separate roles, but I'm willing to bet there is overlap and coordinated decision making.  The thing that makes this interesting is Mo'at could be interpreting the will of Eywa in bringing Jake to the Omatikaya in the first place (the signs Neytiri saw), while Tsu'tey would probably be saying, "He betrayed us should be cast out."  Or something like that.

[Elektrolurch]

I think in this case, it's certainly Mo'at's duty to judge about all that.

[Tsu'roen]

If that's true... Why was Mo'at surprised when she saw Toruk coming to them with Jake on his back? Her mind was totally blown away.

She may have thought of many ways he may be of help - most likely through his knowledge of the tawtute and their weapons.
But a Toruk Makto is such a rare thing in the history of ALL Na'vi that it probably never crossed her mind that an uniltìranyu could become one - even after the sign of Eywa that Neytiri witnessed.

Regarding freeing Jake and Grace: my impression is that the Tsahik - as the interpreter of the will of Eywa - has the final say in all things.

[Elektrolurch]

That's true. The Olo'eyktan just has to arrange festivals, or something... hasn't he?

[Tsu'roen]

Well, he is more like a combination of prime minister and commanding general in a monarchy - the one who makes the daily politics in peace and war. But the King/Queen can overrule him at any time. Though this will not be done too often or otherwise it will undermine his position.
That may also be the reason why Olo'eyktan and Tsahik are always a mated pair.

[Elektrolurch]

Good contribution. But I don't exactly understand the reason, why they have to be mated.... Maybe a Na'vi marriage is different from a human one's?