Na'vi Proverbs

Started by Seze Mune, March 07, 2012, 09:37:33 AM

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Tanri

Quote from: Blue Elf on March 14, 2012, 01:57:36 AM
IMHO also Fra'u a tswayon... is not fully correct - not things fly, but birds/animals/creatures
...ayyayo, ayioang, ayswirä... alu fo (tup sa'u) ;)

Ke lu toruk frapo a tswayon - "Not all what flies is a toruk"
This pair of sentences sounds to me the best, both Na'vi and English version. They express the same meaning, but because they come from completely different languages (and worlds ;)), they cannot be literally the same. Literal translation attempt like "kea fraioang" seems to me unnatural. In fact, "kea" is the opposite of "fra", thus they can't be applied together to the same noun.
I found two interesting things to notice:
- first one is the different approach in negation. English negates the subject, while Na'vi the verb.
- second, both sentences put emphasis on the same thing. In English it is the beginning of the main sentence (Not all what flies is a toruk), Na'vi prefers the end (Ke lu toruk frapo a tswayon).

Quote from: Puvomun on March 14, 2012, 03:09:56 AM
*Throws flower at Blue Elf. *Wonders if that flower is considered to be flying. ;D
Tsa'ewll ke lolu fkxakewll, sìlpey oe ;D
Tätxawyu akì'ong.

Puvomun

Quote from: Tanri on March 14, 2012, 02:57:18 PM
Quote from: Puvomun on March 14, 2012, 03:09:56 AM
*Throws flower at Blue Elf. *Wonders if that flower is considered to be flying. ;D
Tsa'ewll ke lolu fkxakewll, sìlpey oe ;D

HRH!!!
Krr a lì'fya lam sraw, may' frivìp utralit.

Ngopyu ayvurä.

Seze Mune

Quote from: Tanri on March 14, 2012, 02:57:18 PM
Quote from: Blue Elf on March 14, 2012, 01:57:36 AM
IMHO also Fra'u a tswayon... is not fully correct - not things fly, but birds/animals/creatures
...ayyayo, ayioang, ayswirä... alu fo (tup sa'u) ;)

Ke lu toruk frapo a tswayon - "Not all what flies is a toruk"
This pair of sentences sounds to me the best, both Na'vi and English version. They express the same meaning, but because they come from completely different languages (and worlds ;)), they cannot be literally the same. Literal translation attempt like "kea fraioang" seems to me unnatural. In fact, "kea" is the opposite of "fra", thus they can't be applied together to the same noun.
I found two interesting things to notice:
- first one is the different approach in negation. English negates the subject, while Na'vi the verb.
- second, both sentences put emphasis on the same thing. In English it is the beginning of the main sentence (Not all what flies is a toruk), Na'vi prefers the end (Ke lu toruk frapo a tswayon).

Quote from: Puvomun on March 14, 2012, 03:09:56 AM
*Throws flower at Blue Elf. *Wonders if that flower is considered to be flying. ;D
Tsa'ewll ke lolu fkxakewll, sìlpey oe ;D

One doesn't use tsn'ì in this construction? ↑

Seze Mune

Quote from: Puvomun on March 14, 2012, 12:47:27 PM
Quote from: Seze Mune on March 14, 2012, 12:24:57 PM
What about Toruk ke livu fra'u a tswayon?

I think it should be "Toruk ke lu fra'u a tswayon" then.

livu makes your sentence say "Toruk may not be everything that flies"

I guess that would be alright too.  I was using the <iv> because the saying is meant proverbially and not as an actual event, therefore there is a sense of indefiniteness to it as in a subjunctive.  But your point is taken!  ;)

Seze Mune

Sngä'i a täftxu ulte Eywal tìng ngaru kìngit.

Begin to weave and Eywa will give you the thread.

or

Sngä'i tìtusäftxu ulte Eywal tìng ngaru kìngit.

Seze Mune


Txopu tsawl sleyku palulukan pxeya tsawl to pum leru.

Fear makes (grows) the thanator bigger than he is.

Seze Mune

Keng palulukan zene zivong ayzize'wä.

or do I put the wä with the verb:  Keng palulukan zene zivongwä ayzize'.

Even the thanator must defend himself against Hellfire wasps.

Alyara Arati

Quote from: Seze Mune on March 14, 2012, 10:05:16 PM
Sngä'i a täftxu ulte Eywal tìng ngaru kìngit.

Begin to weave and Eywa will give you the thread.

or

Sngä'i tìtusäftxu ulte Eywal tìng ngaru kìngit.
This is another personal favorite of mine. :D  Sngä'i is a modal verb, so the controlled verb after it needs an <iv>, but you can say, "begin to weave" as: Sngä'i tiväftxu (ulte Eywal tayìng ngaru kìngit.)

Quote from: Seze Mune on March 14, 2012, 10:18:22 PM

Txopu tsawl sleyku palulukan pxeya tsawl to pum leru.

Fear makes (grows) the thanator bigger than he is.
With <eyk> infix, tsawl slu becomes transitive and therefore subject and object need cases.  So:  Txopul tsawl sleyku palulukanit apxa (nì'ul) to tìngay.

Quote from: Seze Mune on March 14, 2012, 10:29:28 PM
Keng palulukan zene zivong ayzize'wä.

or do I put the wä with the verb:  Keng palulukan zene zivongwä ayzize'.

Even the thanator must defend himself against Hellfire wasps.

Ah, the rare <äp> infix... Keng palulukan zene zäpivong wä ayzize'  OR  Keng zene palulukan zäpivong ayzize'wä.
Learn how to see.  Realize that everything connects to everything else.
~ Leonardo da Vinci

Puvomun

Quote from: Seze Mune on March 14, 2012, 07:20:37 PM
Quote from: Tanri on March 14, 2012, 02:57:18 PM
Tsa'ewll ke lolu fkxakewll, sìlpey oe ;D

One doesn't use tsn'ì in this construction? ↑

No, one does not. Tanri said:
that flower not was itchplant, I hope.

In English you would not say that flower not was itchplant, I hope that either.

tsnì is only used as "that" when you request/hope something (ätxäle / sìlpey)
Krr a lì'fya lam sraw, may' frivìp utralit.

Ngopyu ayvurä.

Blue Elf

#129
Quote from: Tanri on March 14, 2012, 02:57:18 PM
Quote from: Blue Elf on March 14, 2012, 01:57:36 AM
IMHO also Fra'u a tswayon... is not fully correct - not things fly, but birds/animals/creatures
...ayyayo, ayioang, ayswirä... alu fo (tup sa'u) ;)

Ke lu toruk frapo a tswayon - "Not all what flies is a toruk"
Ma oeyä tsultätu, ngaru irayo seiyi! The best solution!

QuoteSngä'i a täftxu ulte Eywal tìng ngaru kìngit.
Sngä'i is intransitive, so some changes would be needed, but it is also modal, so simplest way is to say:
Sngä'i tiväftxu ulte Eywal tìng ngaru kìngit.
Very nice statement!

QuoteKeng palulukan zene zivong ayzize'wä
Keng palulukan zene zäpivong ayzize'wä
As palulukan is that one who perform action and simultaneously receive it, <äp> is needed here. Also adposition can be connected only with nouns/pronouns (just add space in front of wä in your second sentence)

QuoteTxopu tsawl sleyku palulukan pxeya tsawl to pum leru.
sleyku is transitive verb, so cases are needed and also some other changes. My attempts:

Txopul sleyku palulukanit a lu tsawl to pum lesngä'i => Fear produces thanator which is bigger than the original one
Simpler version:
Palulukan 'ul krr a nga txopu si => Thanator increases when you are afraid
or maybe
Txopul 'eykul palulukanit => Fear causes thanator to increase/Fear makes thanator bigger
Not sure which version is best or most correct, the betters people must judge :)
Oe lu skxawng skxakep. Slä oe nerume mi.
"Oe tasyätxaw ulte koren za'u oehu" (Limonádový Joe)


Blue Elf

Quote from: Puvomun on March 15, 2012, 02:18:49 AM
Quote from: Seze Mune on March 14, 2012, 07:20:37 PM
Quote from: Tanri on March 14, 2012, 02:57:18 PM
Tsa'ewll ke lolu fkxakewll, sìlpey oe ;D

One doesn't use tsn'ì in this construction? ↑

No, one does not. Tanri said:
that flower not was itchplant, I hope.

In English you would not say that flower not was itchplant, I hope that either.

tsnì is only used as "that" when you request/hope something (ätxäle / sìlpey)
tsnì can be used, but also can be omitted, depends on what you want to say:
Sìlpey oe tsnì lilvu ngaru tìsop asìltsan. => I hope (that) you had a good journey
Ngaru lolu tìsop asìltsan, sìlpey oe. => You had a good journey, I hope.
Oe lu skxawng skxakep. Slä oe nerume mi.
"Oe tasyätxaw ulte koren za'u oehu" (Limonádový Joe)


Puvomun

Quote from: Blue Elf on March 15, 2012, 02:35:46 AM
QuoteTxopu tsawl sleyku palulukan pxeya tsawl to pum leru.
sleyku is transitive verb, so cases are needed and also some other changes. My attempts:

Txopul sleyku palulukanit a lu tsawl to pum lesngä'i => Fear produces thanator which is bigger than the original one
Simpler version:
Palulukan 'ul krr a nga txopu si => Thanator increases when you are afraid
or maybe
Txopul 'eykul palulukanit => Fear causes thanator to increase/Fear makes thanator bigger
Not sure which version is best or most correct, the betters people must judge :)

Maybe:

Palulukan tsaw slu ngeyä txopuhu nì'eng
Palulukan grows equally with your fear.
Krr a lì'fya lam sraw, may' frivìp utralit.

Ngopyu ayvurä.

Blue Elf

One small letter is missing:
QuotePalulukan tsawl slu ngeyä txopuhu nì'eng
but good attempt, ma Puvomun!
Oe lu skxawng skxakep. Slä oe nerume mi.
"Oe tasyätxaw ulte koren za'u oehu" (Limonádový Joe)


Tanri

Quote from: Blue Elf on March 15, 2012, 02:52:57 AM
Quote from: Puvomun on March 15, 2012, 02:18:49 AM
Quote from: Seze Mune on March 14, 2012, 07:20:37 PM
Quote from: Tanri on March 14, 2012, 02:57:18 PM
Tsa'ewll ke lolu fkxakewll, sìlpey oe ;D

One doesn't use tsn'ì in this construction? ↑

No, one does not. Tanri said:
that flower not was itchplant, I hope.

In English you would not say that flower not was itchplant, I hope that either.

tsnì is only used as "that" when you request/hope something (ätxäle / sìlpey)
tsnì can be used, but also can be omitted, depends on what you want to say:
Sìlpey oe tsnì lilvu ngaru tìsop asìltsan. => I hope (that) you had a good journey
Ngaru lolu tìsop asìltsan, sìlpey oe. => You had a good journey, I hope.
Exactly. :)
I wanted to avoid tsnì, because it requires subjunctive and combination <ilv> was somewhat over-complicated for such simple saying.
Tätxawyu akì'ong.

Seze Mune

#134
I think both of these express the point well:

Txopul 'eykul palulukanit

Fear causes thanator to increase/Fear makes thanator bigger.


Or:

Palulukan tsawl slu ngeyä txopuhu nì'eng.

Palulukan grows equally with your fear.

(And not only that, I can see where/why the case endings are used)

Txopul tsawl sleyku palulukanit apxa (nì'ul) to tìngay.

Fear makes the thanator grow bigger than the truth.

And teaches me the lovely <eyk> infix which teaches me the transitivity also.  It also might have a sort of fish-that-got-away implication: 'c'mon, really - the thanator wasn't THAT big! Pffttt.'



Seze Mune



Sngä'i tiväftxu ulte Eywal tayìng ngaru kìngit.

Begin to weave and Eywa will give you the thread.   :D

Seze Mune

Quote from: Tanri on March 15, 2012, 05:46:09 AM
Quote from: Blue Elf on March 15, 2012, 02:52:57 AM
Quote from: Puvomun on March 15, 2012, 02:18:49 AM
Quote from: Seze Mune on March 14, 2012, 07:20:37 PM
Quote from: Tanri on March 14, 2012, 02:57:18 PM
Tsa'ewll ke lolu fkxakewll, sìlpey oe ;D

One doesn't use tsn'ì in this construction? ↑

No, one does not. Tanri said:
that flower not was itchplant, I hope.

In English you would not say that flower not was itchplant, I hope that either.

tsnì is only used as "that" when you request/hope something (ätxäle / sìlpey)
tsnì can be used, but also can be omitted, depends on what you want to say:
Sìlpey oe tsnì lilvu ngaru tìsop asìltsan. => I hope (that) you had a good journey
Ngaru lolu tìsop asìltsan, sìlpey oe. => You had a good journey, I hope.
Exactly. :)
I wanted to avoid tsnì, because it requires subjunctive and combination <ilv> was somewhat over-complicated for such simple saying.

This sounds complicated.  Why would tsnì require the <ilv> infix combination? (Not even sure what that means)

Seze Mune

#137
Keng palulukan zene zäpivong ayzize'wä.

Even the thanator must defend himself against Hellfire wasps.

Adpositions:  some require <iv> and so do certain modal verbs, so this one <iv> suffices for both in the same sentence, if I were using fpi, mì or ilä?

Palulukan zene tivaron fpi yivomtìng sneyä ayprrnen.  Hmm.  That didn't work out quite right as an example...

And I shall have to figure out a few more <äp> constructions for practice!

Puvomun

Quote from: Seze Mune on March 15, 2012, 12:29:08 PM
Keng palulukan zene zäpivong ayzize'wä.

Even the thanator must defend himself against Hellfire wasps.

Adpositions:  some require <iv> and so do certain modal verbs, so this one <iv> suffices for both in the same sentence, if I were using fpi, mì or ilä?

Adpositions don't require <iv> as far as I know. Using a modal verb requires <iv> in the following verb, and when you want to say "may/might verb", you use <iv> in the verb (v<iv>erb). An adposition can cause lenition, when the adposition is noted with a + in the dictionary.
Krr a lì'fya lam sraw, may' frivìp utralit.

Ngopyu ayvurä.

Tanri

Quote from: Seze Mune on March 15, 2012, 12:17:11 PM
This sounds complicated.  Why would tsnì require the <ilv> infix combination? (Not even sure what that means)
Sìlpey used with tsnì requires subjunctive (<iv>), but I wanted to use only perfective (<ol>). They can be combined in one infix <ilv>, although I would leave this for true "I hope that ..." sentences (oe sìlpey tsnì ...).
Tätxawyu akì'ong.