Author Topic: Na'vi Proverbs  (Read 63357 times)

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Offline Seze Mune

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Re: Na'vi Proverbs
« Reply #60 on: March 10, 2012, 08:57:37 am »
Quote
(Sadly, we have no word for 'encouragement' yet.)

kaltxì ma Seze...  I have very little Na'vi, but a lifetime love of all things language (working on the Na'vi).  So happy to find this proverbs thread.   My point in boldly posting where I don't yet belong is this: I was wondering about the concept of encouragement for peoples like the Na'vi.  I understand also there are rules for coining official words...  So off I went to my Na'vi dictionary.    ;)

Encouragement is a process of "creating" or "inspiring" courage, yes?   So from the dictionary, couldn't the concept of encouragement be done with ngop + tìtstew -- "create" + "courage", or something like it?   Could probably also do "make" + "courageous" . No word for "inspire" exists yet either, and it might work better if there was.

Now I'll go back to lurking and standing quietly among the pxay txantslusam.   For inspiration... irayo!



Here at Learn Na'vi, we work closely with Dr. Paul Frommer, the official creator of the language.  We have a system here of suggesting words for Dr. Frommer for his approval.  You want to check out the Lexical Expansion Project.  If I felt capable, I would give careful thought to the word - as you have done - and submit it for his approval.  Until the time Dr. Frommer approves it, any word other than a Na'vi name for an RP character is considered illegal and we don't use it.  It's a matter of respect and pride here at Learn Na'vi.   ;)

I am so glad you found your way to this thread!!  Practice is so helpful when learning this language and making up proverbs keeps me happily engaged.  At any time you are welcome to add your thoughts and sayings here.  We have excellent haryu, who have great knowledge, humor and compassion.  Please jump in, any time it tickles your fancy!  :D

Offline Puvomun

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Re: Na'vi Proverbs
« Reply #61 on: March 10, 2012, 09:16:51 am »
Ngeyä kxa lu txumtsä'wllna.

Your mouth is like a poison-squirting plant (your words hurt, are poison).
Krr a lì'fya lam sraw, may' frivìp utralit.

Ngopyu ayvurä.

Offline Seze Mune

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Re: Na'vi Proverbs
« Reply #62 on: March 10, 2012, 09:26:49 am »
Ngeyä kxa lu txumtsä'wllna.

Your mouth is like a poison-squirting plant (your words hurt, are poison).

Oooo, nice! And I won't take it personally.  ;)

This showcases the use of the adposition 'na', but it brings up a question for me. In the Na'vi Dictionary, it is listed as:

na–: [na] PF adp. like, as

Does the line after it mean that it can only be attached as a prefix?  Otherwise, I'd've thought it would be -na- if it could be placed on either side.

Offline Vur’evenge

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Re: Na'vi Proverbs
« Reply #63 on: March 10, 2012, 09:27:22 am »
Quote
Here at Learn Na'vi, we work closely with Dr. Paul Frommer, the official creator of the language.  We have a system here of suggesting words for Dr. Frommer for his approval.  You want to check out the Lexical Expansion Project.  If I felt capable, I would give careful thought to the word - as you have done - and submit it for his approval.  Until the time Dr. Frommer approves it, any word other than a Na'vi name for an RP character is considered illegal and we don't use it.  It's a matter of respect and pride here at Learn Na'vi.

Yes I have been reading at Karyu Pawl's blog and other places about the ongoing development of the Na'vi language.  Thank you for the link!  I am sensitive to the special magic of language creation and creators.  Perhaps when I have a bit more Na'vi under my belt, especially grammar, I will try to submit.  A long way off, me thinks.  I really hate baby-stepping.  Just sayin...  ;)

Quote
I am so glad you found your way to this thread!!  Practice is so helpful when learning this language and making up proverbs keeps me happily engaged.  At any time you are welcome to add your thoughts and sayings here.  We have excellent haryu, who have great knowledge, humor and compassion.  Please jump in, any time it tickles your fancy!  :D

Wow! that cool description thing with haryu!! (I searched for the plural for karyu in vain!)  I wanted to write: pxay txantslusam haryu.

Irayo, ma Seze!
"We tend to live in a world of certainty, of undoubted, rock-ribbed perceptions: our convictions prove that things are the way we see them and there is no alternative to what we hold as true.  This is our daily situation, our cultural condition, our common way of being human" ~ Maturana & Varela

Offline Puvomun

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Re: Na'vi Proverbs
« Reply #64 on: March 10, 2012, 09:32:55 am »
Ngeyä kxa lu txumtsä'wllna.

Your mouth is like a poison-squirting plant (your words hurt, are poison).

Oooo, nice! And I won't take it personally.  ;)

This showcases the use of the adposition 'na', but it brings up a question for me. In the Na'vi Dictionary, it is listed as:

na–: [na] PF adp. like, as

Does the line after it mean that it can only be attached as a prefix?  Otherwise, I'd've thought it would be -na- if it could be placed on either side.

No. The line after it means that this adposition does not trigger lenition (letter-changing) when in front of a word. When an adposition has a +, then it will trigger lenition.

e.g. ro+ :
kelkuro (at home)
ro helku (at home)

compared to na- :
kelkuna (like home)
na kelku (like home)

Wow! that cool description thing with haryu!! (I searched for the plural for karyu in vain!)  I wanted to write: pxay txantslusam haryu.
You can insert a description be selecting the text you want to describe and click the button with the clouds, right beneath the Change Color dropdown (left of the white P in the blue ball)
It will look like: Describe me!
Code: [Select]
[desc=Why???]Describe me![/desc]
Krr a lì'fya lam sraw, may' frivìp utralit.

Ngopyu ayvurä.

Offline Seze Mune

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Re: Na'vi Proverbs
« Reply #65 on: March 10, 2012, 09:44:42 am »
Aha!

Don't forget that your actual description goes behind the = sign.  Soooo..... [ desc= whatever you want to say ] the words [ /desc ]

Which, of course, is exactly what you said!  ;D

Offline Seze Mune

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Re: Na'vi Proverbs
« Reply #66 on: March 10, 2012, 09:51:08 am »
The line after it means that this adposition does not trigger lenition (letter-changing) when in front of a word. When an adposition has a +, then it will trigger lenition.

e.g. ro+ :
kelkuro (at home)
ro helku (at home)

compared to na- :
kelkuna (like home)
na kelku (like home)


Slä, ma karyu, pelun fì'u:

–a–: [a] PF affix adjectival attribution and
subordination marker

There is a line before and after the 'a'.  If it was only a matter of indicating positioning, then na would have that too, yes?

-na-


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Re: Na'vi Proverbs
« Reply #67 on: March 10, 2012, 09:58:34 am »
Slä, ma karyu, pelun fì'u:

–a–: [a] PF affix adjectival attribution and
subordination marker

There is a line before and after the 'a'.  If it was only a matter of indicating positioning, then na would have that too, yes?

-na-

Ahhh. That -a-. That a is the one that goes before or after an adjective (see message on adjectives, 07-march-2012, 20:53:09).

soma txep / txep asom
That's the a meant by -a-. And yes, that a goes both ways, prefix as well as suffix. QED. :D
Krr a lì'fya lam sraw, may' frivìp utralit.

Ngopyu ayvurä.

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Re: Na'vi Proverbs
« Reply #68 on: March 10, 2012, 10:56:54 am »
I'm so easily amused and fiercely frustrated by having the desire and not the facility.  So, if this belongs in a beginner thread please let me know.  My feeings/ego will not be bruised.

Proverb: Never sleep while your meat (food) is cooking on the fire.

So far I have only a collection of literal Na'vi, and my grasp of grammar is not up to the task.  So I have:

Kawkrr hahaw tengkrr ayngeyä syuve ’em (needs gerund - tì?) sìn txepit.

Baby gibberish, I'm sure. Needs so much, yes?  Gerund, for one thing.  Pointers?  Or simply play with it yourselves.

Irayo seiyi
"We tend to live in a world of certainty, of undoubted, rock-ribbed perceptions: our convictions prove that things are the way we see them and there is no alternative to what we hold as true.  This is our daily situation, our cultural condition, our common way of being human" ~ Maturana & Varela

Offline Puvomun

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Re: Na'vi Proverbs
« Reply #69 on: March 10, 2012, 11:48:27 am »
Proverb: Never sleep while your meat (food) is cooking on the fire.

So far I have only a collection of literal Na'vi, and my grasp of grammar is not up to the task.  So I have:

Kawkrr hahaw tengkrr ayngeyä syuve ’em (needs gerund - tì?) sìn txepit.

Baby gibberish, I'm sure. Needs so much, yes?  Gerund, for one thing.  Pointers?  Or simply play with it yourselves.
As long as no one objects... (we all are learners here ;) )

The proper sentence would be: Kawkrr hahaw tengkrr ngeyä syuve ’em io txep.
(best to cook your food above/over the fire, it does not lie or rest 'on' it.) Because of the adposition (io) there is no need to add a gerund/patientive suffix to txep.

To make it an easier proverb, I'd suggest Kawkrr hahaw tengkrr ngeyä syuve ’em. Never sleep when your food cooks.
It's not bad for a start, really. And what would your proverb mean? (That's the idea with proverbs :D)

Important tip: translate the meaning, not the words. I heard that often, and never enough.
Krr a lì'fya lam sraw, may' frivìp utralit.

Ngopyu ayvurä.

Offline Vur’evenge

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Re: Na'vi Proverbs
« Reply #70 on: March 10, 2012, 12:57:57 pm »
Quote
To make it an easier proverb, I'd suggest Kawkrr hahaw tengkrr ngeyä syuve ’em. Never sleep when your food cooks.
It's not bad for a start, really. And what would your proverb mean? (That's the idea with proverbs :D)

Important tip: translate the meaning, not the words. I heard that often, and never enough.

Irayo ma Puvomum.

Kawkrr hahaw tengkrr ngeyä syuve ’em
.
There could be many interpretations.  I just got a chuckle out of: "You snooze you lose",  but perhaps it's more like: "Stay alert lest precious resources turn to ash."  Over-thinking?   ;D   I also think you could make it more Na'vi specific by replacing the general word "food" with specific hunt kill: yerik, ’angtsìk, etc.
"We tend to live in a world of certainty, of undoubted, rock-ribbed perceptions: our convictions prove that things are the way we see them and there is no alternative to what we hold as true.  This is our daily situation, our cultural condition, our common way of being human" ~ Maturana & Varela

Offline Puvomun

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Re: Na'vi Proverbs
« Reply #71 on: March 10, 2012, 02:06:39 pm »
Irayo ma Puvomum.
Kea tìkin.

Quote
Kawkrr hahaw tengkrr ngeyä syuve ’em.
There could be many interpretations.  I just got a chuckle out of: "You snooze you lose",  but perhaps it's more like: "Stay alert lest precious resources turn to ash."  Over-thinking?   ;D   I also think you could make it more Na'vi specific by replacing the general word "food" with specific hunt kill: yerik, ’angtsìk, etc.
Proverbs are used in general. Using a specific food would make the proverb not more real, I think. Would you only lose if you snooze over yerik?  ;)

Perhaps...
Ke hahaw tengkrr ngeyä syuve ’em.
Pay attention when something important is about to happen.
Krr a lì'fya lam sraw, may' frivìp utralit.

Ngopyu ayvurä.

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Re: Na'vi Proverbs
« Reply #72 on: March 10, 2012, 02:30:16 pm »
Quote
Never sleep while your meat (food) is cooking on the fire
Kawkrr hahaw tengkrr ngeyä syuve ’em io txep.
Good start, but some corrections are needed:
- as Na'vi use multiple negation (there is ugly linguistic term for this), we need ke hahaw
- 'em is transitive, so we need appropriate case endings
- as whole sentence looks like passive, I'd use fko as a subject

Kawkrr ke hahaw tengkrr fkol 'em ngeyä syuveti mì tep. => Never sleep while your food is being cooked in the fire.

Quote
Pay attention when something important is about to happen.
Very good interpretation! Meaning of the sentence depends only on your fantasy. Love lì'fya leNa'vi for this!
Oe lu skxawng skxakep. Slä oe nerume mi.
"Oe tasyätxaw ulte koren za'u oehu" (Limonádový Joe)


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Re: Na'vi Proverbs
« Reply #73 on: March 10, 2012, 02:40:33 pm »
Quote
Proverbs are used in general. Using a specific food would make the proverb not more real, I think. Would you only lose if you snooze over yerik?  ;)

Perhaps...
Ke hahaw tengkrr ngeyä syuve ’em.
Pay attention when something important is about to happen.

Srane. oe pxel tsa'u 'aw.  :)
"We tend to live in a world of certainty, of undoubted, rock-ribbed perceptions: our convictions prove that things are the way we see them and there is no alternative to what we hold as true.  This is our daily situation, our cultural condition, our common way of being human" ~ Maturana & Varela

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Re: Na'vi Proverbs
« Reply #74 on: March 10, 2012, 02:45:04 pm »
Quote
Proverbs are used in general. Using a specific food would make the proverb not more real, I think. Would you only lose if you snooze over yerik?  ;)

Perhaps...
Ke hahaw tengkrr ngeyä syuve ’em.
Pay attention when something important is about to happen.

Srane. oe pxel tsa'u 'aw.  :)

"I like that one." But not right... Sorry...

Tsa'u sunu oeru.
That "is likeable" "to-me". The like you used is an adposition, like/as, e.g. It looks like an ikran. We need the verb here ;)
Krr a lì'fya lam sraw, may' frivìp utralit.

Ngopyu ayvurä.

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Re: Na'vi Proverbs
« Reply #75 on: March 10, 2012, 02:59:11 pm »
Quote
Never sleep while your meat (food) is cooking on the fire
Kawkrr hahaw tengkrr ngeyä syuve ’em io txep.
Good start, but some corrections are needed:
- as Na'vi use multiple negation (there is ugly linguistic term for this), we need ke hahaw
- 'em is transitive, so we need appropriate case endings
- as whole sentence looks like passive, I'd use fko as a subject

Kawkrr ke hahaw tengkrr fkol 'em ngeyä syuveti mì tep. => Never sleep while your food is being cooked in the fire.

Quote
Pay attention when something important is about to happen.
Very good interpretation! Meaning of the sentence depends only on your fantasy. Love lì'fya leNa'vi for this!

Ma Blue Elf,
Wouldn't

ke hahaw tengkrr fkol 'em feyä syuveti.

be better here? I purposely chopped off the fire bit, to keep the proverb short. Fkol 'em txephu fralo, srak?
Krr a lì'fya lam sraw, may' frivìp utralit.

Ngopyu ayvurä.

Offline Alyara Arati

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Re: Na'vi Proverbs
« Reply #76 on: March 10, 2012, 03:03:36 pm »
That all depends on who is doing the cooking of whose food.  If you mean that one is cooking one's own food, then you need to use "sneyä".
Learn how to see.  Realize that everything connects to everything else.
~ Leonardo da Vinci

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Re: Na'vi Proverbs
« Reply #77 on: March 10, 2012, 03:08:44 pm »
That all depends on who is doing the cooking of whose food.  If you mean that one is cooking one's own food, then you need to use "sneyä".
Argh. That one, I have hardly ever (if ever) used that. Yes.

If someone else cooks your food, you don't have to pay attention, you just have to wake up in time to get your share. ;)
Krr a lì'fya lam sraw, may' frivìp utralit.

Ngopyu ayvurä.

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Re: Na'vi Proverbs
« Reply #78 on: March 10, 2012, 03:18:55 pm »
That all depends on who is doing the cooking of whose food.  If you mean that one is cooking one's own food, then you need to use "sneyä".
I got it as:
(Nga) Kawkrr rä'ä hahaw tengkrr fkol 'em ngeyä syuveti mì tep. (someone else cooks for you)
If you wanted to say "Never sleep when you cook your meal", it is:
(Nga) Kawkrr rä'ä hahaw tengkrr  ngal 'em ngeyä syuveti (mì tep). (sno is for 3rd person) But this version sounds strange, how can you sleep while cooking?
Oe lu skxawng skxakep. Slä oe nerume mi.
"Oe tasyätxaw ulte koren za'u oehu" (Limonádový Joe)


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Re: Na'vi Proverbs
« Reply #79 on: March 11, 2012, 12:42:40 am »
That all depends on who is doing the cooking of whose food.  If you mean that one is cooking one's own food, then you need to use "sneyä".
I got it as:
(Nga) Kawkrr rä'ä hahaw tengkrr fkol 'em ngeyä syuveti mì tep. (someone else cooks for you)
If you wanted to say "Never sleep when you cook your meal", it is:
(Nga) Kawkrr rä'ä hahaw tengkrr  ngal 'em ngeyä syuveti (mì tep). (sno is for 3rd person) But this version sounds strange, how can you sleep while cooking?

It is use in the general way:
One should not sleep when one cooks one's food.
Krr a lì'fya lam sraw, may' frivìp utralit.

Ngopyu ayvurä.

 

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