Na'vi Punishments

[Txur’Itan]

Spoiler

Yes, but Neytiri is Tsahík, I doubt she can be both-it would disrupt the balance. Also at the very end of the film Jake is seen wearing the same necklace-thing that Etukan and Tsu'Tey wore, so it's safe to assume that it's the Na'vi version of a crown.

I can't believe I missed that...

hey one thing I just noticed is that Etukan had a large head peice in the movie, was the meaningful or just something he wore because Jake was not wearing he wore what he made.



Eywa ngahu

This is getting off topic but - With Big Man structure, I am thinking you have to keep earning respect, and all of the trinkets are of significance to a hunt, or merit events in the life of Eytukan.  Jake will probably have to earn each trinket that he adorns himself with over time.

On topic - How does anyone think punishment is handled for unruly children by the Na'vi, or at least the Omatikaya?

[Tìng Eywatikìte'e]

The Na'vi life style is a harsh one, an unruly child could seriously endanger himself and others. I don't think the Na'vi would have something like spanking. For Western society spanking is a method of negative association, a way of making something negative out of their behavior. In a Na'vi lifestyle, for the most part, the natural consequences of the child misbehaving would probably be enough to create the same negative association.

"Hunny, don't run away from Mummy!"

*Child runs away, falls off a tree branch/runs into poisonous plants/meets palulukan, near death experience, child doesn't run off again*

Of course there must be children that do worst things. Children can be cruel, and I doubt the Na'vi are any different. I wonder what would happen if a child was caught hurting an animal.

[Txur’Itan]

The Na'vi life style is a harsh one, an unruly child could seriously endanger himself and others. I don't think the Na'vi would have something like spanking. For Western society spanking is a method of negative association, a way of making something negative out of their behavior. In a Na'vi lifestyle, for the most part, the natural consequences of the child misbehaving would probably be enough to create the same negative association.

"Hunny, don't run away from Mummy!"

*Child runs away, falls off a tree branch/runs into poisonous plants/meets palulukan, near death experience, child doesn't run off again*

Yeah lessons you survive you learned from.

Of course there must be children that do worst things. Children can be cruel, and I doubt the Na'vi are any different. I wonder what would happen if a child was caught hurting an animal.

Many human societies predominantly prefer to punish and execute rather than treat and heal, in these cases when they escalate, but at least we managed to learn that children who do this need treatment before it escalates.  

Now we get into mental illness, and disordered thinking.  I do not know if the Na'vi would know how to deal with mental illness in ways other than to punish or at least admonish for this behaviour, but it may still lead to escalation.  

Maybe Eywa and Tsahìk gets involved to "rewire" synapses, engrams, and other electrochemical nuances to undo these things, if there is interest in salvaging a child who is predisposed to this sort of aberrant behavior.

There would have to be a way that these problems are resolved, and it is probably much harsher than we would be prepared to observe considering how close to the animals the Na'vi are normally suposed to be.  Like from the film, Neytiri knocked Jake pretty hard just for being the cause, and she was the one killing most of the Nantang.  Maybe she knows something about repercussions we have not yet seen.

[A. A. Aaron]

Slightly off topic. Sue me.
Kids can be MEAN too. I wonder if Na'vi children are little a-holes like human kids are. I was thinking about this because of Jake and Neytiri. Their kids are going to have a hell of a time, especially if the genes for human-like hands are dominant.

[Tìng Eywatikìte'e]

Well, I bet teasing the child of Toruk Makto/Olo'ekytan AND Tsahík is a very bad idea...

[A. A. Aaron]

Well, I bet teasing the child of Toruk Makto/Olo'ekytan AND Tsahík is a very bad idea...

Yeah, you'd think that, but never underestimate the unpleasantness of children.

[Toruk Makto]

I was going to say... Their kids will have a rather serious backup strategy there.

[Txur’Itan]

Kid idioms: I should try to convert these later...

It wasn't me...
I don't know...
It's not my fault...
I didn't do it...
I did do it...
I can't find it...
Stop touching me...
You always favor tsmukan/tsmuke over me...
Poe/poan is calling me skxawng!
Mine... (oeyä)
MOM! (sa'nu)
DAD! (sempu)

I think there is some interesting oportunity for translaitng... LOL

San "Backhand" sìk ontu takuk!

Spoiler

Say "backhand" unquote nose hit!

[Tìng Eywatikìte'e]

Well it must help to keep children behaving when you talk about the boogy man getting them and actually meaning it!

"You better behave or else Palulukan is gunna get you!"

[Elektrolurch]

Well it must help to keep children behaving when you talk about the boogy man getting them and actually meaning it!

"You better behave or else Palulukan is gunna get you!"

"Or else Quartich is gunna get you"

[Zefanaya]

Although all children can be mean reckless and just plain stupid, many of the problems that western civilizations have with children other eastern socities dont have and ancient civilizations did not have at least not in great numbers I think if a child was cought abusing an animal for "fun" he would be brought before Eywa and his parents and the Olo'ekytan and tsahik would be tasked with dealing with him for fighting or other offenses to other Na'vi would be dealt with by the Olo'ekytan and I fear could be very severe people can tell the diff between dumb mistakes and bad behavior.

Eywa ngahu.

[ShadowedSin]

Although all children can be mean reckless and just plain stupid, many of the problems that western civilizations have with children other eastern socities dont have and ancient civilizations did not have at least not in great numbers I think if a child was cought abusing an animal for "fun" he would be brought before Eywa and his parents and the Olo'ekytan and tsahik would be tasked with dealing with him for fighting or other offenses to other Na'vi would be dealt with by the Olo'ekytan and I fear could be very severe people can tell the diff between dumb mistakes and bad behavior.

Eywa ngahu.

I would not say that. Many eastern Societies, if we are discussing Eastern Asia are fairly Confucian. Also note that much of the eastern countries are still highly clannish. Where you'll have environments where family is much more stringent in punishment and teaching a child how they should behave. Western Society is quite different in it's views.

[Tsu'roen]

Keep also in mind that Na'vi did not have a word for or understood the concept of lying or dishonesty before the arrival of the humans. And dishonesty is a vital component of most crimes. So I would say crimes among Na'vi are highly unlikely if existent at all.
I also find it a little careless to take our pretty corrupted western society as a reference for potential behavior of the Na'vi. A more appropriate reference would be the native tribes of North and South America (but not the high cultures of Central America) who had a similar lifestyle and set of values.

Of course every society has "defective" individuals. Most likely those would be removed from the clan.
The only punishment of the Na'vi I have heard of so far (and at the moment I can't recall where exactly) is cutting off the queue. And that is considered worse than death. Though I do not think the Na'vi have an actual death penalty but more likely a form of banishment from the tribe which would be as good as death since a single insulated individual would hardly have any chance of survival.

And the scene where Jake and Grace are tied up to that rack looked more like the Na'vi were presenting them to the attacking humans as a deterrent.

[Tìng Eywatikìte'e]

Were does it say that they didn't have a concept of lying? I haven't read all of the ASG yet.

[A. A. Aaron]

Were does it say that they didn't have a concept of lying? I haven't read all of the ASG yet.

I think JC said it in an interview.

[Tsa'räni]

I had an interesting (to me at least, hah!) thought on the concept of Na'vi (edit - should be Omatikaya executions...punishment could easily vary from clan to clan) executions.

If it's something that actually happens sometimes, perhaps leaving them to the will of the forest/Eywa is a more appropriate method than just killing them?  What if that "execution" type thing where Grace and Jake were tied up was for that?

Disregarding whatever brought them to that point, wouldn't this seem fitting for what we know of the Omatikaya?  Someone punished in such a fashion would be secured to the ritual stand thing and left, essentially allowing Eywa to decide their fate.  If the forest did not take them, perhaps that would be a sign that Eywa did not feel death of the body was needed in this case?

[Tsu'roen]

Were does it say that they didn't have a concept of lying? I haven't read all of the ASG yet.

GRACE (softening)
You can never truly be with her.
Jake stops, pinioned by the truth. He seems suddenly very lost.
JAKE
You know why I'm here? Because Quaritch sent me.
NORM
What?
JAKE
That's right -- to embed with the Omaticaya. To find out how to screw them out of their home. By deceit or by force, he didn't care. And if it turned out to be force, then how best to do it.
Norm is in shock. But Grace is eerily calm.
GRACE
And what about now, Jake?
JAKE
I'm not that guy any more.
Grace nods. She's been on his journey every step of the way.
GRACE
I know.
JAKE
But if I tell Quaritch the truth, he yanks me out -- I never see her again.
And if I tell her the truth, the clan throws me out -- that's if they don't cut my heart out and show it to me.
Jake looks hopelessly at the two of them. In his own perfect Hell.
NORM
They won't understand what you've done.
JAKE
They don't even have a word for "lie" -- they had to learn it from us.
Grace sees he is on the verge of tears. Lost and alone, between worlds.
GRACE
I know. I taught it to them.

[ShadowedSin]

You know, even if they don't have a word for lie, there is always the point that they might have a word for those who do not tell the truth.

[Tsa'räni]

You know, even if they don't have a word for lie, there is always the point that they might have a word for those who do not tell the truth.

Interesting thought.  Like the difference between outright lying and not telling the entire truth with the intent to protect someone.

[Tsu'roen]

It's not only that they don't have a word for lie but the whole concept is foreign to them.
And not telling the truth technically is lying.
Even courtesy lies are lies!

The humans introduced lying on Pandora when they arrived. And the Omatikaya learned the concept of it when Grace taught them English.