Na'vi Punishments

[Tsu'roen]

Another thought: that rack Grace and Jake were tied to could normally be used to break down animals the hunters bring in. That would be a much more plausible use in my eyes. Let's just assume for a moment that there are Na'vi that violate the rules (criminals to use a human term) and need to be punished. Given the rather small clan sizes this will still be a rare event and hardly justify building and maintaining a dedicated structure.  

And while senseless killing of pandoran life goes against the nature of the Na'vi, killing Sky People seems to be just fine. We see that hinted in several scenes of the movie: first when Neytiri wants to kill Jake when she sees him wandering through the woods and later when Jake is brought the first time before Eytukan and Mo'at and Tsu'tey is quiet eager to kill that alien warrior. They clearly differentiate between indigenous and alien life.

[ShadowedSin]

Good point Tsu' and yes the Omatikaya had a provision to kill Dreamwalkers on sight if they entered the Clan's territory. They did consider the Avatar's demons also.

The structure could be many things, a good reason why we need to get a good view of it and learn more of Na'vi history. All we know they do keep it purely for one thing, or it exists as a message kind of like how some towns kept stocks around to put unruly people in.

All we know, a bad kid get's tied up for a few hours so he can't run around and cause problems. This is where our info goes awry and we're left with really nothing.

[Technowraith]

And while senseless killing of pandoran life goes against the nature of the Na'vi, killing Sky People seems to be just fine. We see that hinted in several scenes of the movie: first when Neytiri wants to kill Jake when she sees him wandering through the woods and later when Jake is brought the first time before Eytukan and Mo'at and Tsu'tey is quiet eager to kill that alien warrior. They clearly differentiate between indigenous and alien life.

The case of killing Sky People is more or less justified. After all, humans came in and borked up the balance of things to begin with. It's not like humans gave the Na'vi a chance to "send a friendly invitation" when they arrived on Pandora. With the way the Sky People have been treating the Na'vi, it's a typical response to kill any of the demonsm unless Eywa intervenes accordingly.

[Tsu'roen]

I seems it was relatively peaceful until the incident at the school where Neytiri's sister and the other young Na'vi were killed. That was a gross overreaction on the RDA side to kill children for some burned equipment.
I still don't understand why they cut that scene. It was just in an conversation between Grace and Jake so rather cheap.

[Technowraith]

I seems it was relatively peaceful until the incident at the school where Neytiri's sister and the other young Na'vi were killed. That was a gross overreaction on the RDA side to kill children for some burned equipment.
I still don't understand why they cut that scene. It was just in an conversation between Grace and Jake so rather cheap.

I've never noticed that converstion. I'll have to try and look for it the next time i see avatar. Unless you're quoting from the original Project 880 Script.

[Tsu'roen]

No, it's in the 2007 script
p. 53-54

INT. LINK ROOM
The dialogue is continuous as they enter.
JAKE
Got it. So who's this Eywa?
NORM
Who's Eywa? Oh, only their deity. The Great Mother. The goddess made up of all living things. You'd know that if you had any training whatsoever.
He hauls himself from wheelchair to Link.
JAKE
Who's got a date with the chief's daughter?
GRACE
Knock it off. Jesus, it's like kindergarten around here.
As Jake settles into the soft embrace of the link, Grace
inputs commands at the control station.
GRACE
Neytiri was my best student. She and her sister Silwanin. Just amazing girls.
JAKE
I didn't meet the sister.
GRACE
(quietly)
No, she's dead.
(turning to him)
Okay, let's go -- village life starts early.
MAX
Link is ready.
Grace lowers the bio-sensor array over Jake's chest.
GRACE
Don't do anything unusually stupid.
She closes the clamshell

p. 66 -69:

INT. SHACK - NIGHT
Lying in the link, Jake looks exhausted, pale, thin. Norm helps Grace get him to his chair.
GRACE
You're still losing weight. Here --
She hands him a microwaved burrito. He looks at the now alien food. Bites into it without enthusiasm.
JAKE
I made a kill today. We ate it. I know where that meal came from.
GRACE
Other body. You need to take care of this body.
JAKE
Yeah yeah.
GRACE
Jake, I'm serious -- you look like crap. You're burning too hard.
Jake takes the cigarette out of her mouth and stubs it out.
JAKE
Get rid of this s***, then you can lecture me.
GRACE
I'm telling you, as your boss and someone who might even consider being a friend someday, to take some down time.
JAKE
Not now. Tomorrow we leave for Iknimaya.
GRACE walks past Jake, starts making herself coffee.
GRACE
Yeah -- you're gonna go ride a banshee. Or die trying.
JAKE
That's right, Grace. This is what I've been working for.
GRACE
And this is your check up from the neck up, Marine. You're getting in way too deep.
(she turns away)
Trust me, I learned the hard way.
Jake scans the pictures tacked up around Grace's workstation.
JAKE
What did happen at the school?
GRACE looks up from making coffee. Her eyes track across the pictures of the laughing children. Finally --
GRACE
Neytiri's sister -- Sylwanin -- stopped coming to school. She was angry about the clear-cutting.
GRACE sips her coffee, grimaces at the taste.
GRACE
One day, she and a couple of other young hunters came running in, all painted up -- they'd set a bulldozer on fire -- I guess they thought I could protect them.
GRACE'S voice stays oddly CALM as he tells this terrible story, while getting MILK out of the refrigerator.
GRACE
The troopers pursued them to the schoolhouse.
MACRO as she pours the milk -- her hand is SHAKING.
GRACE
They killed Sylwanin in the doorway. Right in front of Neytiri. Then shot the others.
(mildly)
I got most of the kids out, before they shot me.
JAKE
Jesus.
GRACE
Yeah.
Jake realizes that Grace is on the verge of tears and desperately trying to hide it.
GRACE
A scientist stays objective -- we can not be ruled by emotion. But I poured ten years of my life into that school. They called me sa'atenuk. Mother.
(turning to him)
That kind of pain reaches back through the link.
GRACE sits down at the table, looks intently at Jake.
GRACE
It's a job. Learn what you can -- but don't get attached.
GRACE looks at him with real PAIN in her eyes.
GRACE
It's not our world, Jake. And we can't stop what's coming.

[Technowraith]

I haven't had a chance to have a good read of the Project 880 script yet.

Irayo! 

[Rolyu]

That kind of seems like it could possibly be an important piece of information when it comes to viewers understanding what's going on and could quite possibly maybe sort of add some more depth and emotion to the plot that a certain number of people have kindly suggested the movie was lacking....

..... money budgets... time budgets.
In a movie that's over two hours long can they really blame them for scraping some of the foam off the plot?  :/  Does anyone know how much deleted footage we'll get to see when the Director's cut comes out?

Another interesting point; I'm sorry if someone also mentioned it and I missed it... but when Jake is in the bunk house area, and he's looking at the tendrils coming out of his hair, Grace, kind of in the background says "Don't play with that, you'll go blind."

Does that mean that the removal/damage of the queue results in blindness?  Is she talking literal or otherwise?

I can't stop wondering about it.

[Tsa'räni]

Another interesting point; I'm sorry if someone also mentioned it and I missed it... but when Jake is in the bunk house area, and he's looking at the tendrils coming out of his hair, Grace, kind of in the background says "Don't play with that, you'll go blind."

Does that mean that the removal/damage of the queue results in blindness?  Is she talking literal or otherwise?

I can't stop wondering about it.

Probably a joke.  You can see a brief discussion about it here...

http://forum.learnnavi.org/navi-customs-and-culture/tsahaylu-between-two-navi-not-for-mating/60/

[Tsu'roen]

... Does anyone know how much deleted footage we'll get to see when the Director's cut comes out?
...

In the "Director's Cut"? Sip, nada, nothing!

Jan 16 2010 2:17 AM EST James Cameron Talks 'Avatar' Sequel, Deleted Sex Scenes ...
"The 'director's cut' is what we release," Cameron said. "What we do is we do a special edition, where you could select a longer version of the film that has some scenes reinstated. But it's really more of a fan version than a director's version.

"[The fan version] will be 10 or 12 minutes longer," he revealed. "Something like that."

   

[Tìng Eywatikìte'e]

Heh, yeah a very mature discussion on the possibility of blindness >.>

Anywho...

Once again, the 2007 script is an okay reference, but not the best. For now we don't know what Cameron took out because of time constraints or because he simply didn't want them anymore. The fact that what we see is "the director's cut" suggests that most of what was cut was for the latter reasons. Or perhaps it's something he wants to spread out into the other films.

Back to the earlier discussion of the mantle that they tied Grace and Jake to for the "execution." There is a possibility that it is where they break down animals, but the ASG does have a picture of them doing that at the site of the kill. This is usually the more practical method of butchering, it's easier to take parts of an animal back to the village rather than drag the whole thing back, especially when dealing with some of the bigger prey.

I do like the idea of it being used as a stockade, or at the very least a threat of punishment.

[Technowraith]

I don't necessarily consider the original Project 880 script as "canon." But what I do consider it as is a valuable resource to additional insight into the world of the Na'vi and Pandora. Granted half of what's in Project 880 doesn't exist, but it offers a first-hand look at what James Cameron had in mind for Avatar. I would still consider Project 880 as a reference source, though it won't have as much factual bearing as Avatar the movie itself has. I tend to not take Wikipedia as canon because it can be edited by anyone, including those who may not be as well versed as they claim.

Re-railing the train before it gets too far off track:

I'm thinking that in any society, there is some sort of system for maintaining order. There's a set of customs for handling a situation that is considered criminal or otherwise. The Na'vi have an unwritten code of conduct. And it's obvious that at one point, Jake and Grace breached that code. The one thing that has me wandering is they were bent on either killing Jake or Grace (as it appeared to be when they were almost abandoned at Hometree) why not just cut off their Queues and let them suffer? The threat of cutting off the Queue is plain as day when Jake is brought to Hometree for the very time: Two of the warriors are literally pulling him by his hair, one with a knife to the Queue.

[Zefanaya]

also the platform could be used just to tie people up not to die but as punishment left tied outside for 3 days with out food or water would bring someone just to the brink of death (3 days however is human life without water so idk na'vi lifespan with out it). But i still think it is used more for an execution. Hopefully their will be more information in the HD DVD, Blu-ray, and 3D blu-ray versions of the film or maybe a special interview with James just befor movie 2 is released.

Eywa ngahu

[Tsu'roen]

When discussing punishments, what possible delinquencies may occur among Na'vi that would demand punishment?

[Technowraith]

When discussing punishments, what possible delinquencies may occur among Na'vi that would demand punishment?

Well, betraying the clan to the sky demons is pretty high on the list of "navi no-no's."

Other than that, it's not known what could get you in trouble. But some ideas:

-Infidelity (taking another's mate. Though not too sure about this one, since Jake kinda took Neytiri from Tsu'tey in a way)
-Stealing
-Deliberate killing of another clan member
-Other things we consider "criminal"

[ShadowedSin]

I'm not sure infidelity is that big of a deal, band societies don't tend to make a big deal out of it. That's more of a sedentary habit or patoralist thing.

Abusing one's mate might be one.
Abusing a child.
Killing for pleasure especially of another animal if it was not needed. Neytiri made a big deal out of having to kill the Viperwolves in the movie.

[Rolyu]

As far as Grace's joke goes...
lol.

Maybe that is the case.  I am pretty "blind" to sarcasms myself.  One of life's oddities.

[Tìng Eywatikìte'e]

I agree abuse would have to be a big no-no among the Na'vi.

The Na'vi aren't very materialistic, but the ASG does mentioned that they are eventually given a Rack where they are allowed to keep their personal items (jewelry, weapons, ect). Stealing from that is probably worth some punishment.

[Technowraith]

Stealing is usually considered taboo in almost any culture, really.

[Tsu'roen]

But in a culture like the Na'vi's stealing is a sure way to get in trouble. If you steal something everyone will see it - they have no private rooms where you can hide stolen things. And stealing jewelry is also pointless as you can't wear it.
Theft may only work if you steal from another clan. But that really can get you into trouble if you get caught. And I surely doubt you can just walk into another Hometree without getting noticed and causing a crowd.
So being a criminal in a culture like the Na'vi's is a sure way to commit suicide - and there is hardly any way to gain an advantage out of it.