Question about Toruk

[Pandemonium]

The first time I watched the movie, it never occurred to me that Jake was the chosen rider. To me, it looked like he was exploiting a Na'vi custom to let him back in to speak without getting killed. XD However, excellent points about the Toruk targeting Jake. I'll have to watch it again to pick up on it.

and also how neytiri was saying how there have only been five toruk makto ever. I'm like, He's gonna ride it sooner or later.

Oh yeah, definitely. I knew right then Jake was gonna take at least another level in awesome.

[Shoep]

Actually, Jake knows he is chosen, because his 'spirit animal' is a Toruk.
It's another trial he has to pass trough before he can become a hunter. Though they removed the scene from the movie.

I shamelessly copied and pasted this part from the script. Sorry for the way it's written, it's like that in the script, literally.
By the way, POV = Point of view, and some other camera effects are written down, too.

MO'AT places the worm on Jake's out-stretched TONGUE. It twists on itself, lighting his mouth before he closes it. She indicates he should chew. He does. MACRO -- AN EARTHEN JAR is opened. EYTUKAN removes a writhing black ARACHNOID, the Pandoran equivalent of a scorpion.
He places it against the back of Jake's neck and presses. The insect drives its stinger into Jake's skin and -- Jake grimaces. Mo'at and Eytukan step back, leaving Jake alone in the circle.
Neytiri watches intently, joining in the low chant. SLOW DOLLY IN on Jake. His eyes OPEN. He looks around at the faces -- they seem to TRANSFORM, becoming threatening.
Jake looks down at the palms of his hands. JAKE'S POV -- his hands recede, his whole body, the ground and -- INSTANTLY the circle of Na'vi recedes, as if to a distanthorizon, leaving vast ground in between. SPACE is utterly distorted, and SOUND as well -- echoing, THUNDEROUS. ECU JAKE -- pupils DILATED black. He looks around and -- The onlookers are gone, replaced by a ring of glowing trees,
which seem miles high. The whole image is bathed in spectral radiance. Jake looks down -- JAKE'S POV -- his body and hands transforming -- fingers stretching into tendrils, legs becoming roots which spread
outward across the ground, a thousand glowing dendrites which connect to the roots of the trees and -- CUT TO REALITY -- Jake is on his hands and knees, PUKING in
the dirt. He contorts, crying out in agony as the venom contracts his muscles but --
IN HIS VISION Jake stands serene on a FLOATING MOUNTAIN CLIFF. A GREAT BLACK SHADOW covers him, the unmistakable X silhouette of a diving LEONOPTERYX. The LAST SHADOW.
CAMERA SCREAMS down on him as the shadow grows larger -- WE RUSH into his face, into the blackness of his pupil which FILLS THE UNIVERSE and  REAL JAKE writhes in the dirt, his back arched as his muscles
seize. He foams and thrashes, his eyes rolled back in his head, while inside -- TIME ITSELF HAS ACCELERATED -- clouds scream around the mountain tops, mist boils through the forest. He feels the
wind of time blowing through him as -- REAL JAKE claws the ground, moaning, staring blindly while -- INSIDE, IN POV he FLIES over the landscape of Pandora -- --but the forest is BLASTED. Fires flicker among trees that are BURNED black and lifeless in a smoky twilight. A great WINGED SHADOW is cast below, rippling over the
devastated ground. AVATAR JAKE looks down at the shadow. Realizes HE is casting it, and we RUSH IN to his PUPIL and --
PULL BACK from the eye of a GREAT LEONOPTERYX, flying lordly and terrible over the land. It lets out an almighty SHRIEK which seems to echo to eternity and --
SLAM CUT to Jake, on his back, GASPING -- back in his body.He weakly rolls up to one elbow and looks around the room.

MO'AT
It is finished.

Neytiri's face is flooded with relief. The faces of the clan
elders look at Jake expectantly.

EYTUKAN
(subtitled)
Did your Spirit Animal come?

Jake looks from Eytukan to Mo'at, Tsu'tey and the elders. How
can he tell them what he has seen?

Mo'at puts her splayed fingers against his face, seeming to
peer into his troubled soul.

MO'AT
(to Jake)
Something has come.
(to the others, subtitled)
It will take time for the meaning to be clear.

[Tìng Eywatikìte'e]

So Jake probably did have an idea that he was meant for Toruk. To bad that had to be cut, it would have made a lot more sense.

I still have little doubt that brain damage or at least trauma could occur if Tsahaylu went bad. Remember, it's a second spinal cord. It's very, very delicate. Who knows what could happened if the bond wasn't right. I'm guessing it's something very bad.

[Bozemoto]

The only thing that could go wrong with a tsaheylu is if the connector got torn off.
I seriuosly doubt that there is any kind of compatibility issues between diffrent individuals that would cause damage. Nature doesn't build systems that unstable.

If anything it would feel realy weird and give you a headache, due to the signals from the other guy.
So what if its a second spinalchord, its an organ designed to be in the open and therefor has to have some form of durability.
Even our eyes which we are realy protective is realy sturdy. You can cut your eye with a knife and it won't collapse, even though its just a sphere of goo.
A good rule of thumb is if inside the body it's vulnerable (bud protected by bone and muscle), if outside the body it's sturdy (and is subject to all the dangers of the world).

I'm guessing that all the cultural rites are some form of superstition that has evolved over time.
From maybe considering claiming an ikram that had attacked you was good fortune to something that had to be done as a rite to claim one at all.

[Eywal ngaru teing oeti]

I believe that Jake was chosen before he even reached Pandora. He said that he been having those dreams, it seems like right before he left Earth. So, it possible mean that his Spirit Animal had something to do with that and that Spirit knew that Jake was going to Pandora before Jake knew he was going. If you notice that the dream scene of where he was flying and went into the forest, it kind of like when the Toruk attacked Jake and Neytiri. To me, both of them look like that they were almost the same. Just my thoughts on it.

Did you notice that Jake was chosen by Toruk (Predator of the Sky), and that Neytiri was chosen by a Thanator (Predator of the Land)?

[Nìwotxkrr Tìyawn]

I believe that Jake was chosen before he even reached Pandora. He said that he been having those dreams, it seems like right before he left Earth. So, it possible mean that his Spirit Animal had something to do with that and that Spirit knew that Jake was going to Pandora before Jake knew he was going. If you notice that the dream scene of where he was flying and went into the forest, it kind of like when the Toruk attacked Jake and Neytiri. To me, both of them look like that they were almost the same. Just my thoughts on it.

Did you notice that Jake was chosen by Toruk (Predator of the Sky), and that Neytiri was chosen by a Thanator (Predator of the Land)?

Well I think that it is more Eywa letting Neytiri ride the thanator, that is if you go by the theory that you get chosen by being attacked.

[Eywal ngaru teing oeti]

I believe that Jake was chosen before he even reached Pandora. He said that he been having those dreams, it seems like right before he left Earth. So, it possible mean that his Spirit Animal had something to do with that and that Spirit knew that Jake was going to Pandora before Jake knew he was going. If you notice that the dream scene of where he was flying and went into the forest, it kind of like when the Toruk attacked Jake and Neytiri. To me, both of them look like that they were almost the same. Just my thoughts on it.

Did you notice that Jake was chosen by Toruk (Predator of the Sky), and that Neytiri was chosen by a Thanator (Predator of the Land)?

Well I think that it is more Eywa letting Neytiri ride the thanator, that is if you go by the theory that you get chosen by being attacked.

That's most likely true, but it could have also been Neytiri's Spirit animal. I could make all kinds of arguments on that, but they would just be speculations. I'll just say that Eywa had a hand in that until proven otherwise.

[keye'ung makto]

using the  get attacked by clause  would mean jake would be chosen by  the thanator also

[Nìwotxkrr Tìyawn]

using the  get attacked by clause  would mean jake would be chosen by  the thanator also

Well jake was also seperated from the group making him the easiest meal so it may not apply at this particular time.

[kewnya txamew'itan]

I still have little doubt that brain damage or at least trauma could occur if Tsahaylu went bad. Remember, it's a second spinal cord. It's very, very delicate. Who knows what could happened if the bond wasn't right. I'm guessing it's something very bad.

Ikran are certainly very intelligent, I don't disagree with your theory about them being chosen but I think the risk wouldn't be brain damage but a reversal of the bond so that the ikran becomes dominant over the Na'vi.

[We are Omaticaya]

Yea I agree 

[Tìng Eywatikìte'e]

The only thing that could go wrong with a tsaheylu is if the connector got torn off.
I seriuosly doubt that there is any kind of compatibility issues between diffrent individuals that would cause damage. Nature doesn't build systems that unstable.

If anything it would feel realy weird and give you a headache, due to the signals from the other guy.
So what if its a second spinalchord, its an organ designed to be in the open and therefor has to have some form of durability.
Even our eyes which we are realy protective is realy sturdy. You can cut your eye with a knife and it won't collapse, even though its just a sphere of goo.
A good rule of thumb is if inside the body it's vulnerable (bud protected by bone and muscle), if outside the body it's sturdy (and is subject to all the dangers of the world).

I'm guessing that all the cultural rites are some form of superstition that has evolved over time.
From maybe considering claiming an ikram that had attacked you was good fortune to something that had to be done as a rite to claim one at all.

Nature has made many unstable things. I'm not talking about physical burns here or anything. I'm talking about trauma. The connection of two spinal cords is a very delicate matter. Unwanted connection would probably cause some unwanted electrical reactions.

This is Pandora we're talking about not Earth. Their religion isn't based on superstitions but facts. There is a connection between all of them that is physically there. You can't assume their traditions are superstitiously based. If it was just myth and legend curious teenage Na'vi would probably have broken the rule plenty of times by now.

I'm guessing there have been enough incidences of people doing forced Tsuhaylu on organisms of a more complex nature and have negative results. Perhaps something as serious as brain damage doesn't occur, but I'm guessing at least a traumatic shock does and the bond is broken.

I don't think that Tsuhaylu would switch though and have the Ikran be in control. The Na'vi still have a more complex brain and I don't think the Ikran are all that interested in giving orders. If it is on those lines though they probably could refuse the bond and fly away.

Once again, to me the Na'vi are based in practicality. Their rituals don't spring out of thin air, but rather have some logic behind them.

[Bozemoto]

Many rites based on superstition evolves into something that is very much usable and sometimes necessary.
I just belive that the seeds of rites such as the ikran rite begun as a superstition and has evolved into something that is fairly usable.

And as for the religion based on fact. They religion isn't based on fact since they dont use science.
The religion is based on their connection to eywa, they themselves haven't proven to themselves that eywa exists.
They just know she does, and has build thier religion on their perception of her.

I belive that either rites are evolved superstitons or something that has been deemed necessary and has become something religious/cultural.
All rites serve some purpose that isn't always aparent to an outsider though.
I belive that they belived that they needed an ikran as strong as possible or another theory is that only the ones that can catch an attacking ikran is worty of one.
Out of these beliefs a cultural/religious rite can be born.

[Tìng Eywatikìte'e]

Yes they don't use science. But Eywa is still a fact, perhaps not so much the Goddess herself, but there is something that connects them all, anyone can see that. Their religion is based on this simple fact in their  biology and the movie proved themselves to not be superstitious people.

Their rituals are based off of something. They may have evolved over time, but they didn't come out of thin air. It's not superstition when it's something you can prove.

[Bozemoto]

Maybe superstition is the wrong word, assumption is a better word.
But the thing is that without any proof, of which they have none to themselves, their culture is purely based on perception.
This means that any misconception can cause a new behaviour that can spread and become a new cultural rite.
The na'vi are by no means a perfect race, and since the avatar program is even possible I'm guessing that their brains work in a similar manner.
Which means that they are just as error prone as humans.

[Tìng Eywatikìte'e]

I by no means see them as the perfect race. Certainly not, the movie shows them doing plenty of flawed things.

Yes a cultural right could be based on a misconception, but once again, unless there are real negative results with picking the wrong Ikran I'd think they would have found out by now and the ritual would have gone to the way side.

[Bozemoto]

It doesn't have to be because the alternative is bad, it may be because that the way they do it is better.
Aggressive ikran = strong ikran = good riding ikran
I think this is reason enough to support the existance of the rite.

I think that the way the rite is executed is a very good way of doing it but there is no "destined" ikram for one person.
Instead the way it is done is a way to get the best ikran you can, and mysticism has emerged over time.

[Tìng Eywatikìte'e]

But an aggressive Ikran also means a stubborn Ikran. When picking a horse to ride you don't pick the one that lunges at you. You pick the one that you can control. Picking an aggressive animal is a horrible decision for a mount, so there has to be something else at work to justify it.

[Eywal ngaru teing oeti]

It doesn't mean that the Ikran would be stubborn. When the Na'vi bond with the Ikran it possible balance the personality of the Ikran a little bit. Just a thought.

[Tìng Eywatikìte'e]

That is possible. But I don't think the bond is quite as manipulative as that. It's a lot creepier that way...The Na'vi culture doesn't seem like the type to "break" animals. I've heard one person describe the ritual with the Ikran as near rape, and if it is a simple matter of them jumping them and taking control of their mind I would have to agree with them. With my theory the Ikran is simply scared and calms once the bond is made with someone who matches them. There is no mind control or dominance, simply an accepting of their partner.