Question about Toruk

Tsyeymzi · January 01, 2010, 09:56:20 AM

Kaltxì frapo,

Oe neu omum, fyape oe si tshaylu Toruk?

Did anyone catch how exactly one makes a bond with Toruk? Is it as simple (yet difficult) to jump on him and make the connection? Or is there a higher process involved?

Eywayä mokri · January 01, 2010, 10:13:38 AM

From what we have seen in the movie, you just have to make the bond with him.

However you have to succeed in doing it.

Tsyeymzi · January 01, 2010, 10:58:22 AM

Yeah? That's what I thought to.

But someone was saying that you need to be a sort of "chosen one" to be able to make the bond. I don't recall that being said in the movie...

Am I correct, or did I miss a part of the movie and have to go see it for the fifth time? Which I'm more than happy to do by the way, haha.

Lehrrap Uniltìranyu · January 01, 2010, 11:02:22 AM

The problem is that Toruk, like the Ikran, can Tsahaylu with only one Na'Vi in it's tíreykrr, it's lifetime.

Like the Ikran, it must start Tsahaylu with a more physical bond, one of combat. Toruk must choose it's rider in the same way a Ikran chose's it's rider... it will try to kill you, for no reason but that it chose you.

This is why Jakesully was able to create Tsahaylu with Toruk. Toruk tried to attack him, going directly for him if you remember correctly. Toruk follows the same 'rules of nature' that the Ikran follow.

Tsyeymzi · January 01, 2010, 11:25:47 AM

Quote from: Lehrrap Uniltìranyu on January 01, 2010, 11:02:22 AMThis is why Jakesully was able to create Tsahaylu with Toruk. Toruk tried to attack him, going directly for him if you remember correctly. Toruk follows the same 'rules of nature' that the Ikran follow.

THAT'S RIGHT! TORUK DID TOO! I didn't put those two bits together, so Jake was "chosen" from the beginning and it was more than just jumping on Toruk's back and making the connection, Jake was already chosen.

Irayo tsmukan.

bagget00 · January 01, 2010, 02:27:06 PM

OMG I forgot all about that.

Lehrrap Uniltìranyu · January 01, 2010, 04:27:50 PM

There is a lot of stuff like Toruk attacking Jake and Things that were said at the start of the movie that were used again as a bit of forshadowing.

For example: "I would Die to get Samples of that, you lucky swine..." -Grace, talking about the Tree of Spirts
"I'll have to collect some samples..." -Grace, before the Tree, just before she dies.

Simple little things like that.

bagget00 · January 01, 2010, 11:28:38 PM

and also how neytiri was saying how there have only been five toruk makto ever. I'm like, He's gonna ride it sooner or later.

Atoki Atanyä · January 01, 2010, 11:31:41 PM

Quote from: Lehrrap Uniltìranyu on January 01, 2010, 11:02:22 AM
The problem is that Toruk, like the Ikran, can Tsahaylu with only one Na'Vi in it's tíreykrr, it's lifetime.

Like the Ikran, it must start Tsahaylu with a more physical bond, one of combat. Toruk must choose it's rider in the same way a Ikran chose's it's rider... it will try to kill you, for no reason but that it chose you.

This is why Jakesully was able to create Tsahaylu with Toruk. Toruk tried to attack him, going directly for him if you remember correctly. Toruk follows the same 'rules of nature' that the Ikran follow.

I also forgot about that. Although the film did make it quite obvious he would become Toruk Macto. Judging from the way he approached Toruk from above, it seemed slightly too....easy for my liking. Perhaps there was a struggle in the fade to black that we do not see.

bagget00 · January 01, 2010, 11:34:40 PM

I guess it was just something they cut out so that people wouldn't be going, how long is this thing anyway? just hope that when the Bluray comes out, they will have everything they shot for the film and keep the deleted scenes in. lso, would love to see some bloopers.

sezeatan · January 14, 2010, 04:08:58 PM

Quote from: Atoki Atanyä on January 01, 2010, 11:31:41 PM
Quote from: Lehrrap Uniltìranyu on January 01, 2010, 11:02:22 AM
The problem is that Toruk, like the Ikran, can Tsahaylu with only one Na'Vi in it's tíreykrr, it's lifetime.

Like the Ikran, it must start Tsahaylu with a more physical bond, one of combat. Toruk must choose it's rider in the same way a Ikran chose's it's rider... it will try to kill you, for no reason but that it chose you.

This is why Jakesully was able to create Tsahaylu with Toruk. Toruk tried to attack him, going directly for him if you remember correctly. Toruk follows the same 'rules of nature' that the Ikran follow.

I also forgot about that. Although the film did make it quite obvious he would become Toruk Macto. Judging from the way he approached Toruk from above, it seemed slightly too....easy for my liking. Perhaps there was a struggle in the fade to black that we do not see.

Maybe this could be a natural law of Eywa...

What is interesting is that the same thing happens to Neytiri and Jake in a certain way... When she first sees him, she is about to kill him - he is her prey - and the vision of the atokirina changes her mind. She chose him somehow and they were bonded since this first meeting. And Neytiri, wow, she saves him again two more times in such a moving way. First, when the machines are destroying the Tree of Voices and then - my most beloved scene - when she hold him in her arms and put the mask on his face for him to breathe.

Nìwotxkrr Tìyawn · January 14, 2010, 04:33:17 PM

Jakes just lucky Neytiri is good at observing things otherwise I don't think she would have thought to put the mask on him.

Eanikran · January 14, 2010, 05:18:19 PM

Oe didn't even pick up on that about Toruk attacking jake. Seen avatar twice and I didn't think of that either time. haha

Unila kelkuyu si · January 14, 2010, 05:31:49 PM

I am not really sure, but in my opinion, if an ikran didn't choose you, like shown at the beggining, it would run away. The one that choose you would stand its ground. if this applies to Toruk, no one would be able to make Tsahaylu because it would just run away. Jake had the crazy idea of jumping on it from above, and frankly, once jakes on its back, wats it gonna do. im not implying that making Tsahaylu would be easy, but once jake was riding it, if he acted fast enough, it seems like it would be pertty simple to make Tsahaylu...just a thought

Nawma Eywa · January 14, 2010, 05:37:17 PM

he dived onto his back because like he said why does toruk need to look up? he's the biggest and baddest bugger up ther. but when jake landed on him he was already exactly in place to make the bond so there wasnt really any struggle!

bagget00 · January 14, 2010, 10:56:39 PM

When he was flying in, just coming onto the screen were the stalks that enable the connection. He landed right next to them. If he move quicly, Toruk wouldn't know what hit him.

Tìng Eywatikìte'e · January 15, 2010, 12:51:10 AM

I discussed this in another forum.

My opinion is that it is a very unsafe move to make Tsuhaylu with out being chosen. This is a neural connection we are talking about, if it wasn't right it could cause some serious damage.

I see the Na'vi as practical people, who don't make traditions out of nothing. There has to be a reason why they insist that an Ikran must choose you and that they only have one rider in a life time.

My theory is that a rider and Ikran have similar neural/electrical/spiritual patterns, or something of the sort. When they are close enough to each other they can "feel" it. The Ikran, having never felt something like that before, gets scared and attacks. When the bond is made they are instantly calmed.

I bet if a forced bond was made with an Ikran that wasn't a match a worse reaction would ensue with the Ikran trying to break it. Ikran are clearly more intelligent than Pa'li, whose minds are probably taken over by their rider while the Ikran can fight it.

I can only imagine that Toruk can fight even better and if a negative Tsuhaylu was made Jake would be a risk of brain damage or something of the like.

We have many signs through out the movie that Jake is meant to be Toruk Makto. Perhaps the Atokorina and Toruk have this similar "pattern" that Jake also must have, hence why they are attracted to him.

I'm sure Toruk has hunted the Na'vi people before, just trying to get a munch on some yummy Ikran, but it is true that he distinctly goes after Jake. A possible sign that he is chosen.

I doubt Jake was thinking any of this when he jumped though and was just taking a very risking gamble that he was ver lucky to have won.

Atoki Atanyä · January 15, 2010, 05:52:43 AM

It's especially clear that Toruk is after Jake, and not only do we see this with his first attack, but also when Jake and Neytiri are flying together. When Toruk attacks at this point, he never once goes for Neytiri or her Ikran, only Jake.

To me, it looks like Jake was picked right from the start, and the only way he was going to safely make tsuhaylu was if he was to approach Toruk from the top, where he would least expect it. If you think about it, if Jake was prepared, and Toruk did not see him coming, the bond was probably made with little to no struggle. By the time Toruk would have notice what was going on, it would probably have been done already.

As for the idea of it giving Jake brain damage to pick the wrong Ikran? I doubt it is that severe, but i'd imagine something more along the lines of an exceptionally disobedient Ikran, or some issues along those lines. Brain damage sounds a little bit much...

neosis666 · January 15, 2010, 07:05:30 AM

Don't forget the part of the script left out where Jake on his dream hunt becomes Toruk.

Bozemoto · January 15, 2010, 08:59:28 AM

Im thinking that the all you need to do is make a connection.
The thing about he Ikram chosing you is all about strength.
An ikran big enough to challenge you is big enough to carry you.
and you want a strong ikram.

So all he needed to do was make tsaheylu with the toruk and voila.
though the toruk might just throw him off and eat him.