Religions?

[Tsawla Eltu Tsamsiyu]

And so the world is safe, thanks to Kaltxì Palulukan!

[ShadowedSin]

I see that to a point, but not so much as in human tribes. The Na'vi seem so much more egalitarian. Yes, Tsu'tey and Moat sat by the fire with Olo'eyktan, but so did others. I see your philosophy and I like much of what is written here, but I feel that our human examples (the ones I am familiar with at least) are barbaric and almost too tyrannical or dictatorial for Na'vi purposes.

Not necessarily, the !Kung of the Kalahari and the Mbuti, especially the mbuti, are an egalitarian gorup that have a sort of bigman band form going. I would say that the mbuti in fact are a great example of the band society that the Na'vi seem to inhabit.

And these two cultures are generally open minded, and lack any real violence outside of disagreements.

[Tsawla Eltu Tsamsiyu]

Cool.

[Kaltxì Palulukan!]

I see that to a point, but not so much as in human tribes. The Na'vi seem so much more egalitarian. Yes, Tsu'tey and Moat sat by the fire with Olo'eyktan, but so did others. I see your philosophy and I like much of what is written here, but I feel that our human examples (the ones I am familiar with at least) are barbaric and almost too tyrannical or dictatorial for Na'vi purposes.

Not necessarily, the !Kung of the Kalahari and the Mbuti, especially the mbuti, are an egalitarian gorup that have a sort of bigman band form going. I would say that the mbuti in fact are a great example of the band society that the Na'vi seem to inhabit.

And these two cultures are generally open minded, and lack any real violence outside of disagreements.

I'll say it again--you are too smart for me

That was a good pull.

[Tsu'roen]

I see that to a point, but not so much as in human tribes. The Na'vi seem so much more egalitarian. Yes, Tsu'tey and Moat sat by the fire with Olo'eyktan, but so did others. I see your philosophy and I like much of what is written here, but I feel that our human examples (the ones I am familiar with at least) are barbaric and almost too tyrannical or dictatorial for Na'vi purposes.

Not necessarily, the !Kung of the Kalahari and the Mbuti, especially the mbuti, are an egalitarian gorup that have a sort of bigman band form going. I would say that the mbuti in fact are a great example of the band society that the Na'vi seem to inhabit.

And these two cultures are generally open minded, and lack any real violence outside of disagreements.

Yes, they seem to have many parallels to the Na'vi but of course also a few differences.
The most noticeable difference is probably the size: "adult males grow to less than 150 cm (4 feet 11 inches) in average height" while the Na'vi are towering 300 cm (10 feet) high.

Also it seems that they have no distinct warriors if they have any warfare at all - something where the Na'vi were rather modeled after the North American "Indians".

Unlike the Na'vi they have no own language as they speak the languages of their neighboring tribes.

It also seems their social structure is much looser than that of the Na'vi. The Na'vi, as portrait in the movie have clearly dedicated political and spiritual leaders.

But some of the similarities are striking:
They consider the forest to be their great protector and provider and believe that it is a sacred place. They sometimes call the forest "mother" or "father." - that sounds a lot like "Eywa" to me.

Also their lifestyle as hunter-gatherers is like that of the Na'vi - though that's not really a spectacular similarity.

"Molimo" is also the name of a trumpet the men play during the ritual. Traditionally, it was made of wood or sometimes bamboo, .... When not in use, the trumpet is stored in the trees of the forest. - a lot like the blue flute of the Omatikaya. I wonder if the idea for it came from here?

And like the Na'vi they are threatened by deforestation, gold mining, agricultural land development and ironically also by efforts to conserve the forests.  The most disturbing threat is that during Congo Civil War they were hunted down and eaten as though they were game animals. Both sides of the war regarded them as "subhuman" ("blue monkeys")

EDITED BY: Kaltxì Palulukan (I put the entire wikipedia quote in a spoiler. While worth reading--and pertinent to this conversation--it is rather large.)

Spoiler: Wikipedia Article about the Mbuti

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mbuti
From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Mbuti or Bambuti are one of several indigenous pygmy groups in the Congo region of Africa. Their language belongs to the Central Sudanic subgroup of the Nilo-Saharan phylum.

Overview
The Bambuti are pygmy hunter-gatherers, and are one of the oldest indigenous people of the Congo region of Africa. The Bambuti are composed of bands which are relatively small in size, ranging from 15 to 60 people. The Bambuti population totals about 30,000 to 40,000 people. There are four distinct cultures, within the Bambuti. These are the Efé, which speak the language of their neighboring Bantu tribe (the Balese or Mamvu), the Sua, who speak the language of their neighboring Budu (BaBudu), the Mbuti, who speak the language of the neighboring Bila (BaBila), and a small subgroup of the Aka who speak the language of the neighboring Mangbetu tribe[1]. (The majority of the Aka likely migrated to the western Congo basin thousands of years ago).

The term BaMbuti therefore is confusing, as it has been used to refer to all the pygmy peoples in the Ituri region in general, as well as to a single subgroup in the center of the Ituri forest.

Around 2,500 BC, the Ancient Egyptians made reference to a "people of the trees". That could be the Mbuti. [2].

Environment
The forest of Ituri is a tropical rainforest. In this area, there is a high amount of rainfall annually, ranging from 50 to 70 inches [3] (127 cm to 178 cm). The rainforest is 70,000 square kilometers. The dry season is relatively short, ranging from one to two months in duration [4]. The forest is a moist, humid region strewn with rivers and lakes. Several ecological problems exist that affect the Bambuti. Disease is prevalent in the forests and can spread quickly, not only killing humans, but plants, and animals, the major source of food, as well. One disease, carried by tsetse flies, is sleeping sickness, which limits the use of large mammals [5]. Too much rainfall as well as droughts can greatly diminish the food supply.
Congo's Ituri rainforest is also the home of the okapi.

Settlement architecture and organization
The Bambuti live in villages that are categorized as bands. Each hut houses a family unit. At the start of the dry season, they leave the village to enter the forest and set up a series of camps [6]. This way the Bambuti are able to utilize more land area for maximum foraging. These villages are solitary and separated from other groups of people. Their houses are small, circular, and very temporary. Unlike many modern architects, they do not use blueprints, but instead trace the outline of the house into the ground [7]. The walls of the structures are strong sticks that are placed in the ground and at the top of the sticks, a vine is tied around them to keep them together [8]. Large leaves are also used in the construction of the huts.

Food and resources
The Bambuti are primarily hunter-gatherers, foraging for food in the forest. The Bambuti have a vast knowledge about the forest and the foods it yields. They collect an assortment of food, including crabs, shellfish, ants, larvae, snails, pigs, antelopes (such as the Blue Duiker), monkeys, fishes, honey, wild yams, berries, fruits, roots, leaves, and cola nuts.[9] While hunting, they have been known to specifically target the giant forest hog. The meat obtained from the giant forest hog (as is the meat from rats) is often considered kweri, a bad animal which may cause illness to those who eat it,[10] but is often valuable as a trade good between the Bambuti and agriculturalist Bantu groups. There is some lore that is thought to have identified giant forest hogs as kweri due to their nocturnal habits and penchant for disruption of the few agricultural advances the Bambuti have made.[11] This lore can be tied to Bambuti mythology, where the giant forest hog is thought to be a physical manifestation of Negoogunogumbar. Further, there are unconfirmed reports of giant forest hogs eating Bambuti infants from their cribs in the night.[citation needed] Other food sources yielded by the forest are non-kweri animals for meat consumption, root plants, palm trees, and bananas;[12] and in some seasons, wild honey.[13] Yams, legumes, beans, peanuts, hibiscus, amaranth, and gourds are consumed[14] The Bambuti use large nets, traps, and bows and arrows to hunt game. Women and children sometimes help out by trying to drive the animals into the nets. Both sexes gather and forage. Each band has its own hunting ground, although boundaries are hard to maintain.[15]

Trade
The Bantu villagers produce many items that the hunter gatherers trade some of their products for. They often obtain iron goods, pots, wooden goods, and basketry, in exchange for meat, animal hides, and other forest foods.[16] Meat is a particularly frequently traded item. They can also trade to obtain agricultural products from the villagers. In market exchanges, prices are usually arbitrary, and people usually try to bargain for prices or trade one good for another.[17]

Labor
Hunting is usually done in groups, with men, women, and children all aiding in the process. Women and children are not involved if the hunting involves the use of a bow and arrow, but if nets are used, it is common for everyone to participate. In some instances women may hunt using a net more often than men. The women and the children try to herd the animals to the net, while the men guard the net. Everyone engages in foraging, and women and men both take care of the children. Women are in charge of cooking, cleaning and repairing the hut, and obtaining water. The kin-based units work together to provide food and care for the young. It is easier for men to lift the women up into the trees for honey.

Kinship and descent system
The Bambuti tend to follow a patrilineal descent system, and their residences after marriage are patrilocal. However, the system is rather loose. The only type of group seen amongst the Bambuti is the nuclear family [18]. Kinship also provides allies for each group of people.

Marriage customs
Sister exchange is the common form of marriage [19]. Based on reciprocal exchange, men from other bands exchange sisters or other females to which they have ties [20]. In Bambuti society, bride wealth is not customary. There is no formal marriage ceremony: a couple are considered officially married when the groom presents his bride's parents with an antelope he alone has hunted and killed. Polygamy does occur, but at different rates depending on the group, and it is not very common.

Political structure
Bambuti societies have no ruling group or lineage, no overlying political organization, and little social structure. The Bambuti are an egalitarian society in which the band is the highest form of social organization.[21] Leadership may be displayed for example on hunting treks.[22] Men and women basically have equal power. Issues are discussed and decisions are made by consensus at fire camps; men and women engage in the conversations equivalently.[23] If there is a disagreement, misdemeanor, or offense, then the offender may be banished, beaten or scorned.[24]

Religion
See Bambuti mythology.
Everything in the Bambuti life is centered on the forest. They consider the forest to be their great protector and provider and believe that it is a sacred place. They sometimes call the forest "mother" or "father." An important ritual that impacts the Bambuti's life is referred to as molimo. After events such as death of an important person in the tribe, molimo is noisily celebrated to wake the forest, in the belief that if bad things are happening to its children, it must be asleep.[25] As for many Bambuti rituals, the time it takes to complete a molimo is not rigidly set; instead, it is determined by the mood of the group. Food is collected from each hut to feed the molimo, and in the evening the ritual is accompanied by the men dancing and singing around the fire. Women and children must remain in their huts with the doors closed. These practices were studied thoroughly by British anthropologist Colin Turnbull, known primarily for his work with the tribe.

"Molimo" is also the name of a trumpet the men play during the ritual. Traditionally, it was made of wood or sometimes bamboo, but Turnbull also reported the use of metal drainpipes. The sound produced by a molimo is considered more important than the material it is made out of. When not in use, the trumpet is stored in the trees of the forest. During a celebration, the trumpet is retrieved by the youth of the village and carried back to the fire.[26]

Major challenges today
Unfortunately, the land that the Bambuti live on is threatened for various reasons. It is not protected by the law, and the boundaries that each band claims are not distinctly marked out. They are no longer allowed to hunt large game, so they have to trade with nearby Bantu villages. Due to deforestation, gold mining, and modern influences from plantations, agriculturalists, and efforts to conserve the forests, their food supply is threatened. There is also much civil unrest in the country.

In 2003, Sinafasi Makelo, a representative of Mbuti Pygmies, told the UN Forum on Indigenous Issues that during the Congo Civil War, his people were hunted down and eaten as though they were game animals. Both sides of the war regarded them as "subhuman" and some say their flesh can confer magical powers. Makelo asked the UN Security Council to recognize cannibalism as a crime against humanity and an act of genocide.[1][2]

(EDITOR'S NOTE: Still, I highly recommend perusing it. Just click on the word "Spolier" to see it in all it's glory.)

[Tsawla Eltu Tsamsiyu]

Wow...

[Ash]

"Necessity is the mother of invention."  While that's a terribly cliched quote, it's also very true.  Invention is almost always brought about through some kind of need.  [...]

I have been thinking about this (and the rest of your and magnes posting) the last days. (And Kaltxì Palulukans flaming speech for marketing   with the keywords want vs. need).
Do we need flight? Certainly not, it is just the convenience of fast travel/transportation, and yet a whole lot of inventive initiative went into it. So I'd put this in the "want"-folder, and I think a whole lot of other inventions would go there as well...

What sparked my thought regarding this matter again was when I read something about how stone-beads were made in the past. As far as I understood it was (and if made by hand(especially with similar tools) would still be today) a time-consuming and hard work.
The Na'vi are shown as wearing a lot of jewellery made of beads. Also they strike me not only being very intelligent, but also very gifted artisans as we are shown a wide variety of works ranging from small jewellery and bracers over harnesses and stretchers to large hammocks/sleeping platforms and (taken from the ASG) looms.
Waterpower would be accessible to them, so why not apply some basic mechanics to assist with something like forming and polishing beads?

I would not even consider this having to be a conscious decision. Maybe it is just some kind of intuitive reluctance to pursue ideas going in this direction, and I think it would fit the Na'vi very well to not dismiss this kind of hunches and do the "logical" thing, but to trust these impulses and go a different way.

Edit: When I first had this matter going round my head, I thought about the movie "The gods must be crazy" and how the bushman N!xau refuses the "gift" from the "gods" as it makes some tasks easier, but also sows dispute. Now I see that he is from the people of the San (or !Khung as they call themselves.) See postings above. I like full circles 

[Tsa'räni]

I was actually speaking of ancient human history with that quote, though I didn't specify.  As the quality and circumstances of life have improved for many populations, wants and other motivations have indeed replaced need on many fronts.  Though I could easily argue that there is a need buried in each of them, but that's more a semantics exercise than anything.

(For instance, do humans need to fly?  Well, businesses need to make money, and if you're in the business of transporting a lot of people long distances in relatively short amounts of time, you are going to need to invent better and better modes of flight to keep making money.  Or at least you're going to need to buy those inventions, and the businesses inventing them need to sell them, etc etc.)

Edit - A more accurate way of looking at this is that problems are the driving force behind inventions.  Of course, what each person defines as a problem is quite subjective, so what we see as a problem may not seem like one at all to the next person, or especially the Na'vi.  People generally feel that problems need to be solved, which is where the need comes in.

[Ash]

[...]

Edit - A more accurate way of looking at this is that problems are the driving force behind inventions.  Of course, what each person defines as a problem is quite subjective, so what we see as a problem may not seem like one at all to the next person, or especially the Na'vi.  People generally feel that problems need to be solved, which is where the need comes in.

I think I can really agree especially with that statement. To me, the Na'vi outlook on life and what could be considered a problem is very different from what we have in todays "typical" western civilization. This stems from their beliefs and their spiritual feeling of connectedness and the influence this has on their lifestyle. With a more materialistic approach I could see the Na'vi having more wants or needs to be fulfilled as well.

[Kaltxì Palulukan!]

Well, I don't know about anyone else, but I **need** some coffee to wake up in the morning. And I **need** to get my butt off this computer and get to work.

Oh---and I **need** that new 7 series BMW because I have to keep my social status up. No, really. If I don't, I will lose my standing, and I will have to go share time with the commoners, instead of "the pretty people."

Moral of the story: "need" and "want" are interchangeable when it comes to invention/acquisition/progress. Business don't NEED to make money. They WANT to. They can, and do, fail all the time, and other businesses and opportunities rise to take their place. Like Eywa, the free market "protects the balance" by allowing some businesses to die, no matter what the needs of the people are--at that company, or in real life, while others thrive. Greed and fear are the most powerful motivators in humans and society at large. When you take a hard look at humanity, it is not as pretty as a textbook on civilization might make you think. I would love to think that "need" was the foundation of invention, but all I have to do is look around at the world and see that is hardly the case. People are in need everywhere--but can they pay? If not, screw them! THAT is the way society has evolved (and one of the layered meanings of Avatar).

Do you kame?

[Tsa'räni]

I see what you're saying, though I don't agree.

But it doesn't matter, as whether a person lists the driving force behind invention (not acquisition, which isn't the same and doesn't follow the same rules) as need, want, laziness, or whatever, the Na'vi currently have no real drive for major technological advancements through invention.  In fact, the Na'vi culture and Pandora appear to have been carefully crafted to ensure this.

Edit - It's worth noting the ongoing problems with the RDA may change this.

[Tsawla Eltu Tsamsiyu]

I certainly hope it does not.

[Tsa'räni]

I certainly hope it does not.

So do I.  I don't see Cameron taking the story in that direction, but it's a possibility, I guess.

[txur txe'lante]

I do not believe that Ewya is a religious G-d of course that is what the sky people refer to her as, but she is the world. she is within every living thing linking it to the Earth. The Na'vi see the beauty of Ewya in everything around them. They may call their world Ewya and we may call it Pandora. I think Ewya is an imbodiment of the world and I believe that the Na'vi "G-d" so to speak is simply nature.

[magne]

I was actually speaking of ancient human history with that quote, though I didn't specify.  As the quality and circumstances of life have improved for many populations, wants and other motivations have indeed replaced need on many fronts.  Though I could easily argue that there is a need buried in each of them, but that's more a semantics exercise than anything.

(For instance, do humans need to fly?  Well, businesses need to make money, and if you're in the business of transporting a lot of people long distances in relatively short amounts of time, you are going to need to invent better and better modes of flight to keep making money.  Or at least you're going to need to buy those inventions, and the businesses inventing them need to sell them, etc etc.)

Edit - A more accurate way of looking at this is that problems are the driving force behind inventions.  Of course, what each person defines as a problem is quite subjective, so what we see as a problem may not seem like one at all to the next person, or especially the Na'vi.  People generally feel that problems need to be solved, which is where the need comes in.

You have different driving factors, for flying it started simply by the dream of being able to fly, this was that drove all the pioneers. Then it was possible and practical people started to find uses, first idea was reconnaissance and transport of mail as its light and time critical. Next are passengers and all the wartime uses, lots of use of airplanes made many people work with making improvements on them and you got better and better airplanes.

Airplanes are interesting as people has tried making them long before they had engines good enough to make them work. Historically lots of inventions came long after they started to get useful, both the Greek and the Romans would have great need for a printing press and no problems making one. The stirrup is even worse, useful and very simple to make but did not become common until medieval times.
Back to the Na'vi they would have no need for a printing press even limited use for writing. They might find the stirrup useful but probably not as they has better control over riding animals so a saddle would be mort bother than it's worth. However they would probably find lots of useful human inventions and modify them to their uses.

[Teyl Maktoyu Ayfìwopxä]

Eywa is the living of all things on Pandora,
Gaia is the living of all things on Earth.

:p

[Elektrolurch]

Eywa is the living of all things on Pandora,
Gaia is the living of all things on Earth.

:p

Or Mother Nature. We could also call it "Hugo", so the name doesn't matter.