Religions?

[Tanhìyärina']

I'd be curious to know what Eywa feels or thinks about the creatures of Pandora/Eywa'evenga, if she is amused by the Na'vi's prayers and rituals to her, or if she doesn't even notice, or if she likes them. It will also be interesting to note what might happen to Eywa's awareness now that she has, indeed, looked into Grace's consciousness to see what humans are all about. Eywa now has access to all sorts of "military intelligence" about humanity, including just knowing what it means to grow up and be a kid in the blasted society that is alluded to in the movie and books.

I'd argue that Eywa is the Na'vi, just as Eywa is the animals and the plans and everything living on the planet.  Yes, the Na'vi speak of Eywa kind of like a separate being, sometimes anyway, but also seem to acknowledge that Eywa is the planet's consciousness, the sum total of every living thing on it.  At least, that's how I interpreted it.

So when the Na'vi do rituals, they're tapping into that total consciousness, and trying to get it to go their way.  Any part can sway the whole.  Sometimes the whole goes along, and sometimes it doesn't.  But I don't see the Na'vi as separate from Eywa.  Having separate individual consciousnesses, yes-- Eywa is self aware, and each Na'vi is a way she can get a different perspective on the whole of her parts.  Different viewpoints, but the same thing-- Eywa looking inward.  But the Na'vi being separate from Eywa?  I'd say no.

[Elektrolurch]

But is Eywa a god? Or all life? Or does Eywa connect all life. Which means, is the connection called Eywa?

[Tsawla Eltu Tsamsiyu]

As this is the Religious thread, I would like to introduce a new thought. The Force. I'm not trying to connect Star Wars and Avatar (in fact I'd rather not talk about it at all on this or any other site), but I am a Jedi Padawan and find that the idea of Eywa and The Force are very much alike. The two are very compatible (for lack of a better word) and I believe that we could use religious beliefs akin to those of the Na'vi to "fill in the holes."

[Mithcoriel]

How exactly do you mean that? Maybe I don't know much about "the force", but I thought that thing allowed you to move things telekinetically. How is this similar to Eywa?

[Tsawla Eltu Tsamsiyu]

The Force is an energy that binds the universe and all things in it together as Eywa does all things on Pandora. Sure it allows Force adepts to use its unlimited power, but only if it wills it. The Force has a will, but is not a conciencious entity.

[Tìng Eywatikìte'e]

Going back a few posts. To decide whether Eywa is a "god" or not, is to decide what a "god" is exactly. It has a lot of definitions, depending on what culture your talking about. I don't think Eywa is the same type of god Yahweh (The Christian god) is, in the sense of some all powerful being that observes from above. The Na'vi clearly don't see her as something that has complete and absolute power. Still, they clearly see her as a "supreme being" which would make her a "god."

[Elektrolurch]

Going back a few posts. To decide whether Eywa is a "god" or not, is to decide what a "god" is exactly. It has a lot of definitions, depending on what culture your talking about. I don't think Eywa is the same type of god Yahweh (The Christian god) is, in the sense of some all powerful being that observes from above. The Na'vi clearly don't see her as something that has complete and absolute power. Still, they clearly see her as a "supreme being" which would make her a "god."

In my eyes, Eywa is the name for the nature, which lives all together. I don't want to mention the term "collective". And we certainly don't have Eywa on Earth. But I'm sure we could create it, when we live like Na'vi, and maybe join the RL tribe

[Txur’Itan]

Going back a few posts. To decide whether Eywa is a "god" or not, is to decide what a "god" is exactly. It has a lot of definitions, depending on what culture your talking about. I don't think Eywa is the same type of god Yahweh (The Christian god) is, in the sense of some all powerful being that observes from above. The Na'vi clearly don't see her as something that has complete and absolute power. Still, they clearly see her as a "supreme being" which would make her a "god."

Egyptological references used to explain the relationship between Pharaohs and the rest of Egyptian civilization as representations of a living God.  Although details and facts recently being analyzed may contradict those generalized and historical views, they pose a philosophical representation of God hood, similar to the worship of famous people or athletes.  Does someone/something become a God in title, even if not in scope of influence or power.

At the very least, Eywa is pretty popular, probably more so now that she cleaned house on the Ahetuwong.

[Kaltxì Palulukan!]

I hope to be deified one day 

[Coyote]

Is Eywa a god? It depends on who you ask.

Scientifically speaking, no, Eywa is not a god because she can be explained. Eywa is a mass consciousness made up of all the interconnected life on Pandora, which means primarily the plant life, but with the ability to tap into the animal life as well if needed. Because Eywa is not a "supernatural" being (although she may be described as "super-natural", she is not "supernatural" as in ghostly/ethereal), her presence can be measured, quantified, and evaluated in potentially repeatable experiments, then she is a vast organism or organic intelliegence. You also do not need faith (a suspension of disbelief) to believe in her, since again, she has a quantifiable existance.

Socially speaking, as far as the Na'vi are concerned, yes. She is a god to them because in their world view, she provides for them and connects all living things to maintain a balanced and harmonious system. She can even perform "miracles" (calling all life forms to battle, transfer awareness from one body to another) and do things that --let's be honest here-- leave most Earth religions lacking in comparison.

Humans in the Avatar 'verse will probably never see Eywa as a god because they are looking at a much larger mosaic. They know that Eywa has no power off Pandora (unless Cameron has some serious surprises for us in store in the next movies). If you pray to Eywa while out in space, or while on Earth, you're out of luck-- she only has power on that one little moon orbiting Polyphemus. Whereas a "real" god would be able to hear and answer your prayers, theoretically, anywhere.

Bear in mind, though, I am looking at this through the lens of a person who is inclined to believe a single, all-powerful god. A person who is a polytheist may feel that have a "sub-god" who has powers limited to certain areas or realms is perfectly normal, and no less a god despite the limitations. Accepting Eywa as "a god among gods" and the matron deity of Pandora is as reasonable as having Athena be the matron of Athens and one god among many of equal stature and respect.

Humans may attribute Eywa as being god-like, but the real stumbling point is the physical existance part. Eywa provides that proof, which negates the need for "faith", which would seem to me to be necessary to being recognized as a "god".

Now, if Eywa turned out to be a Gou'aould System Lord... okay, nevermind, I'll shut up now.  

[Pwatem]

Going back a few posts. To decide whether Eywa is a "god" or not, is to decide what a "god" is exactly. It has a lot of definitions, depending on what culture your talking about. I don't think Eywa is the same type of god Yahweh (The Christian god) is, in the sense of some all powerful being that observes from above. The Na'vi clearly don't see her as something that has complete and absolute power. Still, they clearly see her as a "supreme being" which would make her a "god."

i think the fact that Eywa was able to influence so many of the animals on Pandora shows that there is some higher level of consciousness where Eywa exists. Because Eywa is like the brain of Pandora, I think that makes her in some sense a higher power. I don't think she controls them, per se, but I think she has an influence on them  It kinda makes me think of "Baby is Three" by Theodore Sturgeon; there's all these different parts that come together to make up a whole functioning unit. (btw "baby is three" is an awesome read; I recommend it.   )

[Rolyu]

Hey, can I ask a favor?  Please don't be so hateful.
It seems I can't read a thread in on this board without someone hating on Christianity, Christians, or religion in general.  It really hurts my feelings.  I'm Catholic, and all I've been taught as a Catholic is to love my fellow humans, regardless of their condition.  I have been taught to give what I can to those who need it.  I have been taught that the greatest thing any human can achieve is to love and teach others to do the same.  I've been taught that everyone deserves dignity and respect, no matter their race, religion, gender, sexuality, or age.  I have been taught that as people who can manipulate the environment, it is our duty to be stewards of the Earth, protecting and cherishing the life we share this world with.  I have been taught that family and community are precious, children are precious, and life is a great gift that we should make the most of.
Sure, when I see Avatar, I compare the Na'vi love for Eywa to my own religion.  To me, the Na'vi are prime examples of how any Catholic should be.  Their Deity, as it is said in the movie, is the most important aspect of their lives.  They pray, they sing, they gather together in the comforting presence of Eywa.  This belief they have, (whether scientifically provable or not) is what holds their entire species together.  It unifies them.  They know and love and respect each other as brother and sister, as they all came from the same place.  I have been told (in Church!) that we must all love and respect each other as brother and sister, as we all came from the same place as well.  We are all human.   I believe in that very strongly.
And yes, terrible things have been done in the name of God, Allah, Jesus, Buddha, and any other God, prophet, or religious icon you can think of.  Terrible things have been done in the name of Peace, hope, security, love, charity, justice, and mercy.  Does that mean that peace, hope, security, love, charity, justice, and mercy are evil? 
Some of the most kind, forgiving, and generous people I have ever known are Priests.  They help out families in trouble, they are a person you can go to when there's no one else, and they always have something inspiring and heartening to say.  One of the coolest priests I've ever met, actually, always had these buttons in a bag that he would give out to people.  They were simple.  All they said were "You are loved."  He'd give them to anyone who talked to him and wasn't wearing one.  And if you asked him the time right as I'm writing this, he would say "It's 12:47 and you are loved!!!" If you asked him the time, any time of the day, he would always tell you in reply "Its --:-- and you are loved!"

You know that if someone came onto this forum and started saying that the Na'vi love for nature is evil, almost everyone here who read it wouldn't hesitate to insult them, bully them, tell them they're wrong, and most likely run them out of the forum.
So please, keep in mind that there are Christians (and those eeevil Roman Catholics like me) Muslims, Jews, Athiests, Wiccans, Buddhists, Pantheists, etc. who love the movie Avatar, love the Na'vi, love nature, love people, and love trying to make the world a better place.  I have tried to ignore hateful comments and keep my mouth shut, but I shouldn't wander into the Customs and Culture section of Learnnavi.org only to read post after post on thread after thread saying that me, my family, my friends, my teachers and mentors, and so many good people that I know and love are evil.  These are people who would pick you up if your car broke down, buy you some lunch, and give you their jacket when they dropped you off wherever you needed to go.

I'm sure you guys are all good people too, so please try to see with an open mind.
 
P.S. And whatever this new whipper-snapper of a Pope says about Avatar, ignore him.  He's a stuffy old man with a stuffy opinion.

[Coyote]

I think it is all too easy to see a pompous stuffed-shirt type get on TV and make attack statements --some fiery Evangelical preacher or some political "moral crusader" type-- and just think, "oh, those Christians!". It is easy to make a blanket statement condemning an entire group because, let's face it, separating the good from the bad is time consuming and hard.

But Rolyu has a point; it is particularly unprincipled to condemn all Christians just because a certain percentage of them are annoying, arrogant, and hypocritical. No social group, no matter how you slice it, either by politics, religion, social class, or whatever will be 100% free of jerks within its ranks, and that includes whatever social group "you" might belong to as you bash Christians in general.

Living in America, we are surrounded by a predominantly Christian culture. Their jerks will seem to be society's jerks as a whole. But take each person individually, and remember that when someone like, say, Pat Robertson makes an ignorant, racist statement, that doesn't mean that all Christians support him, or that he reflects their thoughts.

Perhaps if someone has a criticism of something or someone in any religion, it is worth bearing in mind that not all members of that religion (or any social group at all for that matter: Republicans and Democrats, for example) blindly adhere to the thing being criticized.

[TesterScot]

I think it is all too easy to see a pompous stuffed-shirt type get on TV and make attack statements --some fiery Evangelical preacher or some political "moral crusader" type-- and just think, "oh, those Christians!". It is easy to make a blanket statement condemning an entire group because, let's face it, separating the good from the bad is time consuming and hard.

But Rolyu has a point; it is particularly unprincipled to condemn all Christians just because a certain percentage of them are annoying, arrogant, and hypocritical. No social group, no matter how you slice it, either by politics, religion, social class, or whatever will be 100% free of jerks within its ranks, and that includes whatever social group "you" might belong to as you bash Christians in general.

Living in America, we are surrounded by a predominantly Christian culture. Their jerks will seem to be society's jerks as a whole. But take each person individually, and remember that when someone like, say, Pat Robertson makes an ignorant, racist statement, that doesn't mean that all Christians support him, or that he reflects their thoughts.

Perhaps if someone has a criticism of something or someone in any religion, it is worth bearing in mind that not all members of that religion (or any social group at all for that matter: Republicans and Democrats, for example) blindly adhere to the thing being criticized.

Irayo!
As a - some would say fundamentalist - Christian in the UK, I quite happily co-exist with non-christians (and other Christians from different denominations) in Real Life[TM] and on numerous fora worldwide.  (I'm not rabid, honest) ::GRIN::

I always do my best to remember that - according to the Bible - God gave humans free will; because he didn't want unthinking slaves. 
If God gave all of us free will, what could possibly give me the right to prevent someone else exercising that free will... Nothing!
All I ask is that others return the favour 

I won't 'go off the deep end', based on my faith; please don't anyone else do it either - there may be rocks down there

[ShadowedSin]

I do agree that many people make assumptions based upon preconcieved notions. One reason why I vehemently support people respecting cultural groups for their unique identity.

Plus I do also highly scorn those that clump a group together because of some idea you have.

The concept of Eywa strikes us all. To my Celtic ancestors she is not unlike Danu, the ancient creator goddess. The way how she is described is not unlike the loving God that is taught to many. Be it Vishnu the preserver, Kali the greater creatrix, or any other deity.

(Btw the Shia term for a cleric is Imam, not Mullah )

Looking at the Na'vi practices I can say this.

Practioners - They combine the concept of Shaman and Priest. Shamans are defined in Anthropology, as someone who gains power from spirits or acts as a conduit from which the supernatural can communicate with people. In this sense the Tsahik and her helpers do this. It also seems laypeople also might take part in this to some degree.

Organization - I would define Eywa -ism as a Animist/Monotheistic belief. It combines the idea of a world spirit with what seems to be a respect for the spirits of everything. This to me creates a sense of many placed into one. Something found in vedantic hinduism.

[Toruk Makto]

Rolyu, I'm sorry if I rubbed you the wrong way. But to be clear, for me it isn't hate. It's fatigue. I don't spend a lot of time trying to convince people to see spirituality my way, and I guess I mistakenly expect others to do the same. It apparently comes with being non-Christian in a Christ-prolific culture.

[Coyote]

Happens in every culture. When I lived in Israel I was constantly annoyed at how the ultra-Orthodox parts of society kept running things in society, the government... it's frustrating.  Most people are just trying to live their lives, put food on the table, and --I think-- generally be decent.

[Txur’Itan]

I think religion serves a good purpose, regardless of the religion. 

What bugs me is the conflict caused by one group of Religious people bashing on another group of Religious people on the basis of opinions on which way is the best or most righteous way to believe in God.

I think while humorous, Futurama was on to something with this.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Religion_in_Futurama#The_First_Amalgamated_Church

[Tìng Eywatikìte'e]

Yes, let's remember that you cannot look at one small percent of a group and use it to judge the whole. Also, let us always be aware that we have a diverse group of people here at Learn Na'vi and you should always be careful about what you say, especially about deeply personal matters like faith. Feel free to state your opinions, but always be kind and thoughtful and remember that this is a place for intellectual debate.

Back on topic though 

[Tsawla Eltu Tsamsiyu]

No 2 of my friends share the same religious beliefs/religion. Its very interesting, the diverse opinions and viewpoints I get to see. I must say that, for most people I know, the problem isn't the religion itself, but those uber-religious fools who absolutely refuse to accept that any other religion but their's even exists and just assume you are a part of it. My mom and (evil) stepdad belong to this category, sadly enough.