The Omaticayan Flute

[kintìomum]

What if s/he had the common sense to rescue the flute. What's the first thing you do in a fire? Grab your stuff. You are supposed to run outside (and lie to your girlfriend that you heroically tried to save her rat-dog), but you grab your computer, your wallet, your Superbowl  trophy. Whatever crap you find priceless you go for first. I am guessing that it is not impossible that a Na'vi who was already "within the limbs of Hometree" could have grabbed it. Of course I never thought of this until I read the post about it being in the branches.

Thinking of that: nice idea. Reminds me that I got the "important stuff I'll waste time to get in case of fire before running out although I know I shouldn't" stored in exactly two places which are conveniently on the way to the door...

I think that some of the ikran riders will have perished. They were in the spiraling part of Hometree when the firebombs went of and as we see Tsu'tey was just a bit ahead of the firewave that got sucked upward through the chimney. Now Na'vi might be some sturdy folks but I think I'm not that wrong when I say that being heat washed by some human fire accelerant is not good for them.

[Kaltxì Palulukan!]

We need to get Technowraith in on this. he has seen avatar 22-23 times now(this information is old--it may be up to 25). He would certainly add some fun to the speculation--but in all fairness to everyone who has been posting, these are GREAT posts. I like this thread. A lot.

[Technowraith]

Kelutrel was burned to the ground. Unless the flute was fire-proof, it is probably not there anymore.

More accurately, Kelutrel was blown up and it fell to the ground.   The incendiary missiles fired at Kelutrel were to make the reluctant Na'vi move out. If i counted right, They didn't fire that many incendiary missiles, i think only like 10 or so missiles. Given the combined biomass of Kelutrel, and the volume of fire that resulted, in my opinion, it is impossible for Kelutrel to have completely burned. Think about what happens when you put too large a log on a fire. You end up a) putting it out, or b) it doesn't burn right away. Yes, there was a large volume of ash from the parts of Kelutrel that did burn. The timing is questionable, as we don't now exactly how much time has elapsed between the time Grace and Jake are brought forced out of link and when they are next seen in the holding cell. So it is entirely possible that Kelutrel burnt entirely in the intervening time. On thing i'm questioning though:

Jake's avatar was lying near the fallen reamins of Kelutrel. If the RDA had cleared the area, or the fires were intense enough to burn all of Kelutrel, his Avatar wouldn't be alive. I'm guessing Kelutrel hasn't completely burned. And that the RDA may not have entered the area yet to clear the debris. Only the sequels will answer this question (really all the questions that are here, really).

As for the Flute, the Activist Guide says that "No Avatar has seen the Flute." But it does say that it is among the branches of Kelutrel. So with that, there's no where to tell where the flute was kept. So it's survival is dependent on where in Kelutrel it was kept, and where it ended up during the fall.

We need to get Technowraith in on this. he has seen avatar 22-23 times now(this information is old--it may be up to 25). He would certainly add some fun to the speculation--but in all fairness to everyone who has been posting, these are GREAT posts. I like this thread. A lot.

I'm at 25 screenings. I was able to see avatar during the week again. Today's two planned screenings are postponed because the movie theater is closed. Due to the blizzard we're currently having. (My tickets for today will be honored at other screenings, both Real 3D and IMAX).

My latest opinion is stated in the reply yo the first quote. Open to any akll ideas. Cookies for all good posts, that is if i don't eat them all.   But since i'm eating peanuts right now, there's a good chance that cookies will be around still.

[Kaltxì Palulukan!]

Kelutrel was burned to the ground. Unless the flute was fire-proof, it is probably not there anymore.

More accurately, Kelutrel was blown up and it fell to the ground.  

Or . . .

More  precisely (<---link)   It was gassed, blown up, fell over, and burned to the ground

"When I first came here, this was all swamp. Everyone said I was daft to build a castle tree on a swamp, but I built it all the same, just to show them. It sank into the swamp. So I built a second one. That sank into the swamp. So I built a third. That burned down, fell over, then sank into the swamp. But the fourth one stayed up. And that's what you're going to get, Lad, the strongest castle tree in all of England Pandora. "

or, if you prefer Peewee Herman:

I saw we tattoo him, THEN we stomp him, THEN kill him!   (I say we let him gooo!)   NOOOOOOO!!!**

(**This was from PeeWee Herman's movie aeons ago--but very funny. Too bad there were no Na'vi in it. To stomp him, that is!)

As to the massive ash cloud, the more I am thinking of this, the more I am thinking it might be a combination of wind whip from the sheer number of turbo fans on the various helicopters, debris (dust, soil, bark, leaf powder, insects, etc) from falling tree and of course smoke from everything (that was not giant tree) burning. The floor vegetation obviously went up and spread (think the napalm scene in "Apocalypse Now"). It may be that a LOT of trees burned, and some of Kelutrel, but not necessarily the entire big tree itself. I was supposed to see the movie last night, but instead raced home to work on the Learn Na'vi activity book for 6 hours. I could have seen Avatar at least twice in 6 hours, with a nice leisurely break for dinner. grrr!!

[Tsu'roen]

I think an item so important to the clan would have a guardian - someone who keeps nosy kids from playing with it or protects it otherwise from harm - at a minimum I would expect an honor guard by a warrior.
In that case this guardian would have taken the flute with him when the first missiles hit.

[Kätsyín te Zotxekay Tsyal’itan]

I'm with Tsu'roen, in most cultures they do appoint a 'guardian' over their sacred item.

[Technowraith]

I'm with Tsu'roen, in most cultures they do appoint a 'guardian' over their sacred item.

We don't even know much about the flute itself, as it wasn't even mentioned in Avatar. The reason we know about it is the Activist Guide. We're not sure if Cameron will reveal anything about the Flute in upcoming Sequels.

It would make sense for a guardian to be appointed to care for the Flute, but perhaps the Omaticaya may not have seen a need for such? The Flute is out there, either in one piece or many. But we won't know for sure what happened to it unless Cameron reveals more background on it either during a sequel or in a written book.

[Tsu'roen]

The blue flute was mentioned in the scriptment on page 29: The local clan is called the Tsumongwi, "The Blue Flute Clan".
Tsumongwi was then changed to Omaticaya in the 2007 script - corrected spelling: Omatikaya.
The only indication that the original meaning was kept is in the ASG.

Now "blue" in Na'vi is "ean", "clan" is "olo'" and to my knowledge at this point we don't have the Na'vi word for "flute"
I can not identify either "ean" or "olo'" in Omatikaya. So either they have dropped the meaning or that name is a holdover from a very old form of Na'vi - if there was such a thing as evolution in the history of the language.
Another option is that there is another shade of blue with another name and an alternative word for clan.

We most likely have to wait for the novel or the sequels to be enlightened.

[Kätsyín te Zotxekay Tsyal’itan]

Yea, it noticed the fact that neither the word for blue or clan is actually in Omatikaya. Who knows, maybe when Dr. Frommer releases the language we'll have a better idea.

[Kaltxì Palulukan!]

The blue flute was mentioned in the scriptment on page 29: The local clan is called the Tsumongwi, "The Blue Flute Clan".
Tsumongwi was then changed to Omaticaya in the 2007 script - corrected spelling: Omatikaya.
The only indication that the original meaning was kept is in the ASG.

Now "blue" in Na'vi is "ean", "clan" is "olo'" and to my knowledge at this point we don't have the Na'vi word for "flute"
I can not identify either "ean" or "olo'" in Omatikaya. So either they have dropped the meaning or that name is a holdover from a very old form of Na'vi - if there was such a thing as evolution in the history of the language.
Another option is that there is another shade of blue with another name and an alternative word for clan.

We most likely have to wait for the novel or the sequels to be enlightened.

Consider this:

a: The name was probably in existence ("sounds pretty") before the inception of modular language construction.

b: "Blue" --- Ean. "Yellow" --- Rim. BUT a daisy may be yellow and called (Na'vi word for Daisy), not "yellow flower." I hold that that "seze" has nothing at all to do with blue, just like "rose" has noting to do with red--but you can't get away saying rose without the word red hovering nearby, expecting some stage time as well. ("Hey! How 'bout some love buddy? Is it so hard to say red rose? I don' see no BLUE roses, or blue FLUTES hangin' out here? C'mon, just say it 'red!' Pow! Budda-bing! There? I feel better! You feel better? Say it!")  I put forth that "seze" is a "blue flower" that has just become known as "that blue flower" by humans (or "a specific genus of Flos-Ean-Pandous [Pandoran blue flower] highly regarded by the indigenous tribes").

Basically I think the "blue flute" means neither blue or flute, since it is NOT a flute at all. It could very well be how humans coin a phrase that has nothing to do with it's root word component structure, like "carpet."

I can see Na'vi linguistic students now awaiting word from their grand master eyktan:

"Really, humans make kehe sense at all: 'Car + pet.' What does a floor skin/hide have to do with their vehicular mode of transportation, or their silly domestication of ayswirä? This makes NO SENSE at all! They should have called it...."

So just taking us back to a point where not every word has to "make sense." It may be a proto-genesis word, or it may mean something specific to Eywa summoning, and just happens to be referred to as "dat t(h)ing Eywa gave ta(h) "dose g(o)uys. See?"

[Tsu'roen]

Another one of those:
Seze, the name of Neytiri's ikran
Seze = blue flower (is that the name of a specific type of blue flower or does that mean "blue flower")

[Kaltxì Palulukan!]

Another one of those:
Seze, the name of Neytiri's ikran
Seze = blue flower (is that the name of a specific type of blue flower or does that mean "blue flower")

I like you. You're smart.

[Kayrìlien]

I can see Na'vi linguistic students now awaiting word from their grand master eyktan:

"Really, humans make kehe sense at all: 'Car + pet.' What does a floor skin/hide have to do with their vehicular mode of transportation, or their silly domestication of ayswirä? This makes NO SENSE at all! They should have called it...."

This almost made me literally fall off my chair in a fit of laughter. I mean, we're here trying to learn the Na'vi language by sorting out syntax and grammar and all that, but has anyone really considered how silly they must have thought Ìnglìsì was when they first heard it?

Kayrìlien

[Tìng Eywatikìte'e]

I  think everyone thinks the English language is off it's rocker when they try to learn it. "I before E except after C...and a bunch of other arbitrary times that you're just going to have to memorize."

[Kayrìlien]

I  think everyone thinks the English language is off it's rocker when they try to learn it. "I before E except after C...and a bunch of other arbitrary times that you're just going to have to memorize."

It also doesn't help that we have so many possible pronunciations of syllables in English. One of my favorites is the consonant cluster gh. Say there was an English word spelled ghghgh. If you pronounce the first gh as in hiccough, the second gh as in Edinburgh, and the third gh as in laughter, ghghgh could conceivably be pronounced "puff". This doesn't even take into account the pronunciation of gh in slaughter, although, or bough.

You have to admit that this makes learning English extremely difficult when compared to languages such as Spanish, where there are very few exceptions to the common pronunciation rules. Of course, native English speakers don't think anything about this, but when they are presented with a name such as John Gough, the majority of people will not know what to say. John Gaw? John Go? John Guff?

TL;DR: English is confusing. Period.

Kayrìlien

edit: This has gotten a bit off-topic. I apologize.

[Tìng Eywatikìte'e]

We can always go off topic for an English rant >.>

But yes, let's try to get back on. Though I think this thread has been covered pretty well.

[Kaltxì Palulukan!]

I  think everyone thinks the English language is off it's rocker when they try to learn it. "I before E except after C...and a bunch of other arbitrary times that you're just going to have to memorize."

It also doesn't help that we have so many possible pronunciations of syllables in English. One of my favorites is the consonant cluster gh. Say there was an English word spelled ghghgh. If you pronounce the first gh as in hiccough, the second gh as in Edinburgh, and the third gh as in laughter, ghghgh could conceivably be pronounced "puff". This doesn't even take into account the pronunciation of gh in slaughter, although, or bough.

You have to admit that this makes learning English extremely difficult when compared to languages such as Spanish, where there are very few exceptions to the common pronunciation rules. Of course, native English speakers don't think anything about this, but when they are presented with a name such as John Gough, the majority of people will not know what to say. John Gaw? John Go? John Guff?

TL;DR: English is confusing. Period.

Kayrìlien

edit: This has gotten a bit off-topic. I apologize.

You reminded me of the old "I love Lucy" episode reruns, when I was a kid. It was a 1950's show where Lucy (a famous comedienne) was married to a famous Cuban musician. A running joke was Ricky (Cuban husband) reading out loud to their son. He would say thugh and Lucy would correct him "tho" (though). 30 seconds later he would still be reading aloud and say ro and she would once again correct him with ruff (rough). This was funny (in the 50's, and then again in the 80's). But it shows just how tough language nuances can be--and why it is important to be polite to beginners, especially if you are an advanced grammatical student.

So, what does this have to do with the Omati s'ampta? Only  . . . THIS!

I am tired of people saying "whaa whaa whaa! It's NOT a flute, and blue is ean--therefore this word is illegal. but, what about this? the word the Omaticaya/Omatikaya (as you like) call it, is "Omati s'ampta" which means neither "blue, nor flute." It would more likely mean (touch of/to/from Oma). The Oma(-ti)-tribe were the recipient of this "thing" and calling it a flute because it happens to be blue is an easy way to say "Orange Kittyyyyy!"

Spoiler

Spoiler

Spoiler

See? Orange kitty doesn't even have to be orange! Humans are so dumb!

Relevant Fact: A sailboat sailing the ocean to a distant location will be "off course" (off-topic) 95% of the time. A cruise ship or a "jumbo jet" will be "off course" no less than 20% of the time. Course corrections are a part of life. I mean, no sense walking around "lock-step" though life, right? How boring is that?

[Tsu'roen]

... or Omatikaya is just a name (who's origin or meaning may have been lost in time) and "Clan of the blue Flute" is just an added title like "John Montagu, Earl of Sandwich"

[Kayrìlien]

You reminded me of the old "I love Lucy" episode reruns, when I was a kid. It was a 1950's show where Lucy (a famous comedienne) was married to a famous Cuban musician. A running joke was Ricky (Cuban husband) reading out loud to their son. He would say thugh and Lucy would correct him "tho" (though). 30 seconds later he would still be reading aloud and say ro and she would once again correct him with ruff (rough). This was funny (in the 50's, and then again in the 80's). But it shows just how tough language nuances can be--and why it is important to be polite to beginners, especially if you are an advanced grammatical student.

Kaltxì Palulukan, you have some 'splaining to do!

Personally I preferred the gag done by both Abbott and Costello and Ma and Pa Kettle: 5 into 25 is 14. It usually went something like this:

"See, 5 can't go into 2, but it can go into 5, once, see, 1 times 5 is 5, then 25 minus 5 is 20. Now 5 goes into 20 four times, and there you have it, 14."

"Wait, that can't be right!"

"Here, I'll show you another way. Try multiplying 14 times 5. First you do the ones column; 4 times 5 is 20, then you do the tens; 1 times 5 is 5. Twenty and five is 25!"

"No, no, no, you're doing it wrong. Try adding them up!"

"Okay then, let's write out 14 five times. 4 plus 4 plus 4 plus 4 plus 4 is twenty, 1 plus 1 plus 1 plus 1 plus 1 is five. Twenty and five is 25!"

But I digress. Omatikaya might have some meaning that Frommer might eventually derive, but more likely, as it's one of the words/names that Cameron came up with, it's just something that he thought sounded cool, and was using long before it ever occurred to him to have a linguist invent an entire language. While a more Na'vi-based etymology might be interesting, it probably does not exist, just as we assume that Neytiri is just a name and doesn't actually come from some as-yet-unknown Na'vi word neyt with a topical suffix and just happens to be subject to vowel harmony. (-iri is not quite -ìri)

Kayrìlien

[Kaltxì Palulukan!]

... or Omatikaya is just a name (who's origin or meaning may have been lost in time) and "Clan of the blue Flute" is just an added title like "John Montagu, Earl of Sandwich"

mmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmcookie! (for both of you)


. . . I like sandwiches.