The Omaticayan Flute

[ShadowedSin]

Actually since we don't know much about Na'vi settlements. We really can't surmise that the Hometree species grows to such heights solely on unobtainium deposits.

[Technowraith]

Actually since we don't know much about Na'vi settlements. We really can't surmise that the Hometree species grows to such heights solely on unobtainium deposits.

True. The Activist Guide entry for Hometree states "Ancient trees that grow to immense heights." Doesn't make mention of anything relating to unobtanium influencing growth.

[Toruk Makto]

Still, it is kind of an odd coincidence that the biggest deposit around was RIGHT there under the biggest tree around...

[Kaltxì Palulukan!]

Hi,

I'd like to weigh in on this. After catching up on the posts, I would like to quite clearly state something that is probably on some people's minds, but has not come up specifically:

Access to the tree of souls. We know that Hometree and the Tree of Souls sit above HUGE unobtanium deposits. The movie told us about Hometree, and the ASG tells us that the stone arches which "guard" the Tree of Souls are created by massive amounts of the stuff. They dozed the Tree of Voices most likely for the same reason. Those massive robo-dozers are expensive to run, so they would be used from a "point a to point b" system, here "point b" is a few trillion dollars of unobtanium just waiting to be dug up and refined.

So the Tree of Voices is now a pile of toothpicks, Hometree is now Home Depot (a lumber yard and some junk you can forage around looking at while picking up lumber), and the Tree of Souls is the only place they have left. Hometree was in their clan since the beginning of time. I highly doubt they are leaving the area. The Tree of Souls is so important, and so sacred, that they would sleep at Hell's gate (if that were the only choice) before migrating to some distant land. They know these grounds, They hunt and gather and weave these grounds. This is where they get their banshees. Yeah, having a Home Depot on Pandora sucks, but they are not going to lose all access to the Tree of Souls along with everything else, especially not by abandoning it. The Tree of Souls marks the (general area--so it is the symbolic) spot where they defeated the Tawvrrtep in the most intense battle Pandora has ever seen. Eywa herself got involved. I say again, even if they had to be homeless (that term really doesn't translate into Pandoran life), they would glue themselves to the Tree of Souls in thankfulness, worshipfulness, and hope for and from Eywa. To walk away from the Tree of Souls at this point would be like spitting in Eywa's face.

I deeply appreciate the care that has been taken to express all of the thoughts here, and they all make sense, except for the fact that even though they need a new home, this is "their ancestral land," and their dead are all over. There may be another Tree of Voices, or one may grow. Their ancestors are present and do not want to be abandoned. I don't know how global their ancestors are, but I am assuming the Tree of voices (and its possible sapling replacement) will host the energies of the Omaticaya clan, not just your average "Joe Navi."

So all in all, I think they are staying, and I am rethinking my position on whether or not they would go scavenge Hometree for anything usable, even as painful and ash-covered as it is.

[Technowraith]

Still, it is kind of an odd coincidence that the biggest deposit around was RIGHT there under the biggest tree around...

That was actually a change from the original concept script. Project 880 was the concept screen play for Avatar. Originally, Quaritch destroys Hometree to "show the na'vi not to mess with the humans." The subsequent change to the unobtanium angle is what we see now, which made it easier to work in the destruction of Hometree.

In some of the views of the surrounding jungle, you see other huge trees like Hometree. The seem within relatively close distance of each other. So wouldn't Omaticaya simply migrate to a new Hometree? It's obvious they may not leave the area of former Homertree right away. But you never know. The sequel may throw us a complete curve ball.

[Tìng Eywatikìte'e]

Well we saw a lot of other trees that were certainly bigger than Hometree, but the scan from the RDA shows it to definitely be the biggest in the area.

The ASG has mentioned that the "sacred" spots of the Na'vi have unobtanium deposits, which would suggest that trees as big as Hometree only grow around those areas. Perhaps it has fertilizing qualities as well as conducting. It seems like to big of a coincidence that their home just happened to be on top of the largest deposit in the area for no reason.

[Kaltxì Palulukan!]

Well we saw a lot of other trees that were certainly bigger than Hometree, but the scan from the RDA shows it to definitely be the biggest in the area.

The ASG has mentioned that the "sacred" spots of the Na'vi have unobtanium deposits, which would suggest that trees as big as Hometree only grow around those areas. Perhaps it has fertilizing qualities as well as conducting. It seems like to big of a coincidence that their home just happened to be on top of the largest deposit in the area for no reason.

From Grace's comments about conductivity, the later (numerous) statements about how the ToS and the ToV were conduits for Eywa, and other factors I don't want to mention (needless distraction--we all know the facts), it seems to me that Eywa is a global consciousness (gee--no surprise there) whose physical essence and even sensory organs are the trees, ferns, rocks, etc. Eywa obviously has dominion over fauna, but flora seems to be more "her" than "her domain." It appears that the trees draw sustenance from unobtanium in the way that the metal-following plant (hold on, lemme get the ASG) fngapsutxwll (pp 115) absorbs unobtanium from the soil.

Given that unobtanium lends itself to anti-gravity, this may help further explain why trees on Pandora grow so tall, offsetting the massive weight the trunk must support, given that Pandora is known for violent storms on occasion (could potentially knock over tall trees). Just adding to your thoughts

[Tsa'räni]

I don't see finding a new Hometree as walking away from the Tree of Souls.

You can still cover a very large area and be within pretty easy access to the Tree of Souls considering the Na'vi generally seem to be able to move through the forest with relative ease.  Even if those who are not warriors don't move so swiftly on foot, they can still cover a lot of ground in a day, I bet, not to mention ride dire horses.

If anything, I would imagine they'd be looking for a new home as soon as possible.  If they had wanted to live at the Tree of Souls before, they would have. But they were forced there by the destruction of their home.  It seems to be their home plays a vital, central, but different role in their lives than the Tree of Souls.  They need a new one.

Considering some of the shots we saw in the movie, which showed multiple giant trees in a single shot, I'm thinking you can make a reasonable argument that something is within range but still keeps them relatively close to the Tree of Souls.  But living there intentionally?  No, I don't see that at all, and I think it goes against what has been presented to their way of life so far.

[magne]

Still, it is kind of an odd coincidence that the biggest deposit around was RIGHT there under the biggest tree around...

That was actually a change from the original concept script. Project 880 was the concept screen play for Avatar. Originally, Quaritch destroys Hometree to "show the na'vi not to mess with the humans." The subsequent change to the unobtanium angle is what we see now, which made it easier to work in the destruction of Hometree.

In some of the views of the surrounding jungle, you see other huge trees like Hometree. The seem within relatively close distance of each other. So wouldn't Omaticaya simply migrate to a new Hometree? It's obvious they may not leave the area of former Homertree right away. But you never know. The sequel may throw us a complete curve ball.

Might be good reason to select a special tree, you obviously want a large one with room enough inside including the ground, you want access to the top so you can reach your banshees, but not so large holes on the top that it rains inside, so even if it's lots of large trees few might be suitable for housing a tribe.

[Tsu'roen]

...
Given that unobtanium lends itself to anti-gravity, ...

Sorry, but this seems to be a common misconception among Avatar fans. Unobtanium is a superconductor! It has nothing to do with gravity nor any reducing influence on it.
A superconductor only elevates in a strong magnetic field due to the Meisner effect. Additionally the magnetic field lines need to go up like they do in on the north and south poles here on earth to cause a superconductor to elevate. So everywhere else here on earth unobtanium would just lay around like any other piece of ore.
But Pandora has due to the influence of Polyphemus' magnetic field a very different magnetic field than earth. The resulting flux vertexes act like poles where the field lines go perpendicular to the planetary surface. And that's what makes the Hallelujah Mountains elevate.

So the unobtanium underneath Hometree didn't have any weight reducing effect. But it is still a superconductor. The tree roots may dissolve and absorb the unobtanium mineral to make their fibers highly conductive. This would turn the trees on top of unobtanium deposits into something like network hubs - the tree of voices and the tree of souls are clearly such network hubs.

[Kaltxì Palulukan!]

...
Given that unobtanium lends itself to anti-gravity, ...

Sorry, but this seems to be a common misconception among Avatar fans. Unobtanium is a superconductor! It has nothing to do with gravity nor any reducing influence on it.
A superconductor only elevates in a strong magnetic field due to the Meisner effect. Additionally the magnetic field lines need to go up like they do in on the north and south poles here on earth to cause a superconductor to elevate. So everywhere else here on earth unobtanium would just lay around like any other piece of ore.
But Pandora has due to the influence of Polyphemus' magnetic field a very different magnetic field than earth. The resulting flux vertexes act like poles where the field lines go perpendicular to the planetary surface. And that's what makes the Hallelujah Mountains elevate.

So the unobtanium underneath Hometree didn't have any weight reducing effect. But it is still a superconductor. The tree roots may dissolve and absorb the unobtanium mineral to make their fibers highly conductive. This would turn the trees on top of unobtanium deposits into something like network hubs - the tree of voices and the tree of souls are clearly such network hubs.

I gave you a cookie just for being so smart. Thanks for explaining that in ways I can understand.

[Tsu'roen]

Thanks!

Well, I studied Physics and still remember bit's and pieces of it

[Kaltxì Palulukan!]

Thanks!

Well, I studied Physics and still remember bit's and pieces of it

Bah! I hate smart people! Gimme back that cookie! I'm hungry. Did you eat it yet Einstein? You know, if I had a cat, I certainly wouldn't put it in a box with a vial of acid; and what if the vial didn't break, but it chipped, and the odors from the acid leaked out? The cat would still be dead. What does this have to do with a flute? I don't know. You see: the flute is missing--and so is my point.

(so that is the connection) 

[Tsu'roen]

... the flute is missing ...

Hah! that just gave me the "inspiration" for the titles of the sequels:
"Avatar II: The Search for the Blue Flute" (The Omatikaya search for their lost treasure)
"Avatar III: The Undiscovered Country" (The Omatikaya search for a new Home)
"Avatar IV: The Final Frontier" (The Omatikaya still search for a new Home)
"Avatar V: The Voyage Home" (The Omatikaya have given up and return to the Tree of Souls)
"Avatar VI: The Wrath of Quarich" (yeah he had a twin too)
"Avatar VII: The Next Generation" (Jake's and Neytiri's kids are ready to take over)
"Avatar VIII: First Contact" (there is life on the other moon)
...

[Toruk Makto]

then...

Avatar Nemesis:  Cameron Finally Goes Too Far with the Franchise

[A. A. Aaron]

Thanks!

Well, I studied Physics and still remember bit's and pieces of it

Bah! I hate smart people! Gimme back that cookie! I'm hungry. Did you eat it yet Einstein? You know, if I had a cat, I certainly wouldn't put it in a box with a vial of acid; and what if the vial didn't break, but it chipped, and the odors from the acid leaked out? The cat would still be dead. What does this have to do with a flute? I don't know. You see: the flute is missing--and so is my point.

(so that is the connection) 

Are you feeling ok? Your posts are getting weirder and weirder...

[Kaltxì Palulukan!]

Thanks!

Well, I studied Physics and still remember bit's and pieces of it

Bah! I hate smart people! Gimme back that cookie! I'm hungry. Did you eat it yet Einstein? You know, if I had a cat, I certainly wouldn't put it in a box with a vial of acid; and what if the vial didn't break, but it chipped, and the odors from the acid leaked out? The cat would still be dead. What does this have to do with a flute? I don't know. You see: the flute is missing--and so is my point.

(so that is the connection) 

Are you feeling ok? Your posts are getting weirder and weirder...

No, I was just being silly. The cat was a Shrodinger's cat reference (Quantum Physics 101), where they put forth a horrible proposition that if a cat is in a box with a vial of acid and you close the box the vial breaks and the cat dies. The point of the proposition is that the cat is not dead until you open the box, so at this point it i both alive and dead. But you are right--that post sucked. Sorry, I will try to do better in the future.

[Tsa'räni]

Actually, I found it pretty amusing that you indirectly implied you're not smart and then included a Schrödinger's cat reference in the same post.   

[A. A. Aaron]

Thanks!

Well, I studied Physics and still remember bit's and pieces of it

Bah! I hate smart people! Gimme back that cookie! I'm hungry. Did you eat it yet Einstein? You know, if I had a cat, I certainly wouldn't put it in a box with a vial of acid; and what if the vial didn't break, but it chipped, and the odors from the acid leaked out? The cat would still be dead. What does this have to do with a flute? I don't know. You see: the flute is missing--and so is my point.

(so that is the connection) 

Are you feeling ok? Your posts are getting weirder and weirder...

No, I was just being silly. The cat was a Shrodinger's cat reference (Quantum Physics 101), where they put forth a horrible proposition that if a cat is in a box with a vial of acid and you close the box the vial breaks and the cat dies. The point of the proposition is that the cat is not dead until you open the box, so at this point it i both alive and dead. But you are right--that post sucked. Sorry, I will try to do better in the future.

I got the Schrodingers cat reference, I was just trying to back-track mentally through the thread and link it up to the initial topic of the flute. Even reading the entire thread, it was a stretch. Not picking fault with your post, really. Nothing personal, it was just way out there.

[kintìomum]

No, I was just being silly. The cat was a Shrodinger's cat reference (Quantum Physics 101), where they put forth a horrible proposition that if a cat is in a box with a vial of acid and you close the box the vial breaks and the cat dies. The point of the proposition is that the cat is not dead until you open the box, so at this point it i both alive and dead. But you are right--that post sucked. Sorry, I will try to do better in the future.

Actually, the cat was not only in a box but in a box with a geiger counter linked to a mechanism that would break the cylinder with the acid if a sample of some radioactive isotope chose that moment to decay (one atom dies and sends a "death scream" of highly ionizing particles). Since you can't exactly say if or when the sample decays you can't say if the cat is alive or dead until you open the box.
Or, as a teacher said: That happens if you don't have friends and hobbies!

Soo, back to topic:
The flute was a present from Eywa. We don't know why the heck Eywa decided to give the Omatikaya the flute  (did they need some totem? Like other clans famous for their pottery or their relationship to nantang -definitley my people, I love dogs!) or if she'll do it again. So the only chance the Omatikaya have to get their flute back is to literally search the haystack. Or in this case giant stack of unfinished tooth picks...

Now, another Hometree would be the best thing to happen for the Omatikaya, I can somehow imagine them to live near the old place and the Tree of Souls, with the old place becoming a burial ground. Burying the dead at the feet of the dead tree...