Author Topic: Looking into the roots behind the connective "feeling" from Avatar  (Read 2445 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline allrock123

  • Uniltìranyu
  • **
  • Posts: 116
  • Karma: 3
There is a lot of talk about keeping the "feeling" alive and I fully realise this is unique to every persons experence, my question is are people intrested in taking a look at where the roots behind this "feeling" ?and where it comes from. from I have spent almost 3 years since the film was released in late 2009 trying to understand the powerful emotions and feeling of connection and belonging I felt inside , But every person has there own take on what the experence relates to, Avatar uses some very unique cultural-spiritual refrences and there is very strong suspicion that JC used very real cultural refrences to what could be called an Ancestral reconnection cermony or tool that points to in "some people" a profound "inner memory" if there is honest intrest I would be glad to share my research but like I said every person has there own take on the film and "memorys" it pointed to inside.    

Offline Niri Te

  • Palulukan Makto
  • *****
  • *
  • Posts: 1256
  • Karma: 23
  • Yayo Alefngap Tswayonyu
Re: Looking into the roots behind the connective "feeling" from Avatar
« Reply #1 on: July 27, 2012, 09:15:59 am »
 Can't help you much with this one, my "inner, deep ancestral memory" comes not from something written in my DNA, but my being part Cherokee, spending time on a "Rez,", and living totally tribal on a South Pacific Island for several years.
 Niri Te, (Samoan Name, Tai Tae Ao, pronounced as if it were Na'vi)
Tokx alu tawtute, Tirea Le Na'vi

Offline allrock123

  • Uniltìranyu
  • **
  • Posts: 116
  • Karma: 3
Re: Looking into the roots behind the connective "feeling" from Avatar
« Reply #2 on: July 27, 2012, 09:12:41 pm »
Can't help you much with this one, my "inner, deep ancestral memory" comes not from something written in my DNA, but my being part Cherokee, spending time on a "Rez,", and living totally tribal on a South Pacific Island for several years.
 Niri Te, (Samoan Name, Tai Tae Ao, pronounced as if it were Na'vi)

The wording "DNA" comes from a science driven viewpoint and I agree that trying to explain a "connective feeling" from a science viewpoint does not represent the true understanding, I allways get pinned betwean the two schools of "thought" , I can try and represent a "feeling" from its spiritual roots or I can try the science side sometimes the two viewpoints share comon roots usualy not, to some "Ancestery" is a part of our DNA to others Ancestory can only be represented as a spiritual link and the science label is "simply wrong" its very difficult for me to explain and find the right wording and everyone "sees" Avatar from there own viewpoint and worldly understanding,Avatar through its examples both sublime, and direct presents the symbolic "World View" of a native culture and how they "see" and interact with there living world example (Pandora) Avatar is also what is known as a Mirror story "reflecting" real world issues and building a bridge of understanding through inner relative examples "Mirrored" in the films fantasy story, I feel Avatar greatly differs from films like "dances with wolves" in that it does not just talk about how these people view there world it  puts one from our "Viewpoint" directly in there shoes (Human Avatar) and asks him to address issues we normaly would "grasp" from our intellect directly from our heart, it drives  deep emotional understanding pointing to our "moral" values personaly many speak on how strongly they realy felt this inside and that they realy wanted this "fealing" back some have watched the film many times because of this even if it caused sadness "Why" ? that is the question I am trying to ask, This "feeling" I feel has deeper roots then many think and may connect to a deep memory in "some people" it may also tie into so called Avatar depression, in my research I have run into some intresting cultural connections one being posably that of the Achuar and there Awaking the dreamer' changing the dream program these connections do not have a comon parallel in native American spiritual understanding as the Achuar are not from turtle island (North America) but are a South American Condor people with a deep shamantic spiritual understanding of how "dreams can be used to drive real world change  " there is an example here, I see a number of these Sublime dream refrences in Avatar if one looks at the first line of dialog in the film what does it point to a dream shared by many ? (what are peoples open opinions on this please ?) also Jake speakes strongly of this in his saying "everything is backwards now out there is the "true" world and in here is the dream" this refrence to dreams in thought points us to a unique inner place of understanding many say it may be linked a Ancestral Reconnection tool or Ceremony
When I hear people say in the forums  "Ouch... why does that hurt? Because something ancient inside of us that we had sealed up and labeled "Forget it... the world doesn't support this thinking" had the dust blown off it and that seal torn off by a movie that demanded that we look at it again, insisted that we reconsider the impossible, grabbed us by the heart " it at least gets my intrest and respect , when I see it repeated over and over I have to at least wonder where it came from. I fully understand that most people did not have this experence but a suprising number at least relate to it in some way some very strongly almost 3 years after the films release.          
« Last Edit: July 27, 2012, 09:33:59 pm by allrock123 »

Offline Niri Te

  • Palulukan Makto
  • *****
  • *
  • Posts: 1256
  • Karma: 23
  • Yayo Alefngap Tswayonyu
Re: Looking into the roots behind the connective "feeling" from Avatar
« Reply #3 on: July 27, 2012, 10:01:24 pm »
 Oh, I agree with you, there are a good number of people to whom this movie was simple escapism, and nothing more, but there are others who were touched so profoundly, that they will NEVER be the same again.
Niri Te
Tokx alu tawtute, Tirea Le Na'vi

Offline `Eylan Ayfalulukanä

  • Palulukan Makto
  • *****
  • *
  • *
  • Posts: 4757
  • us United States
  • Karma: 44
  • Palulukan alu Kenya 06/23/1996 - 01/15/2017
    • The Lionlamb website
Re: Looking into the roots behind the connective "feeling" from Avatar
« Reply #4 on: July 27, 2012, 10:51:32 pm »
Another thing that was touched on already, that I will expand on, is the whole idea of 'connection'. There is a need for all living things, and especially the higher living things, to develop connections with other living things, considered in both a physical and a spiritual sense. Much of the breakdown of our society occurs because this need for 'connectedness' is not being properly fulfilled. This need for connectedness varies greatly from person to person. For many, it is a soulmate. For others, it might be that plus children. Spirituality is important for others, and so some benefit from a connection with God. Yet others find connections with animals. For many, a dog or cat is sufficient. Some need stronger connections-- horses build strong bonds for some people. For me, it is lions (especially) and other big cats. There is no way to fit this connectedness into a mold, because everyone expresses it so differently. Unfortunately, there seems to be a 'mold' that some social engineers feel we all need to fit into to be 'connected' by THEIR definition. And of course, it doesn't work. But because these social engineers cannot kame, they cannot figure out why their plans don't work, even though their textbooks and 'science' so-called tell them it will work.

You might enjoy reading this paper, which I co-authored with two other people, about this connectedness http://www.lionlamb.us/lion/Constitution_and_Happiness_10a.doc

Yawey ngahu!
pamrel si ro eylan.falulukana@gmail.com

Offline allrock123

  • Uniltìranyu
  • **
  • Posts: 116
  • Karma: 3
Re: Looking into the roots behind the connective "feeling" from Avatar
« Reply #5 on: July 29, 2012, 08:27:34 am »
Oh, I agree with you, there are a good number of people to whom this movie was simple escapism, and nothing more, but there are others who were touched so profoundly, that they will NEVER be the same again.
Niri Te

There is a very symbolic example in a video created by LuminousMetallic called Avatar: sing it out that realy speaks on this heartfelt feeling from inside in looking at the roots behind it "My world is wrong, my world is a lie thats come true" I think much of it points to a fundamental Flaw in our mainstream world view in that we are told "We are seperate" and our inner understanding or deep humanity as a living being simply "can not function in this manor without great sublime stress" Avatar presented an example of a World view that deeply resonates that simply feels "True" inside most people and yes the feeling profoundly changed those people "forever" I experenced this as I was forced to reflect on my own self and the path we where headed down as a people I went through 4 days of what could be called forced self reflection a real battle inside with myself and the actions of our people, it goes much further then just enviromental awareness but issues that where deeply effecting how our familys, community, and global relations at the roots underlying our humanity its not easy to find words to express this as it was deeply personal
and very emotive, Avatar through symbolic examples built a bridge of understanding to very real issues
and I tryed to follow that bridge "back" to its roots underlying very real cultural-spiritual understanding  "I was strongly compelled to do so" time and time again I ran into this "Avatar: Wisdom  and knew full well that Avatar was at its roots  intended to be a "mirror story" and never attached to its fantasy this story reflecting in many cases very real world issues that I was aware of in doing human rights work ,the inner connective understanding or "fealing" pointed to by the film now had great "merit" and let me make a move from "seeing" from my intellect" to viewing issues from my heart  of course this new viewpoint was very emotional and challenging to deal with ,In time at least on my part (And I caution strongly every person has a diffrent personal view on things) came to strongly question if at least in "some people" Avatar pointed  to a real sublime Ancestral Memory (that some labeled Ancient DNA, I fully understand why the science term would not hold "merit" to one with native ancestory as I have spoken on this issue with people from these circles and science simply does not apply from there viewpoint, I have heard the story of others struggling with depression issues and some speak of the "Na'Vi" inside (usuly symbolicly) and the fealing of deep personal accountabilty for the actions of our people. most people chalk this up to "attachment to fantasy"
and in some cases it could be, but again when a "fealing" persists almost 3 years after the films release
something just does not add up. for an intresing real view on Avatar search on "Kogi and Avatar" and on the words "Kogi and Aluna"  
« Last Edit: July 29, 2012, 08:34:44 am by allrock123 »

Offline allrock123

  • Uniltìranyu
  • **
  • Posts: 116
  • Karma: 3
Re: Looking into the roots behind the connective "feeling" from Avatar
« Reply #6 on: July 29, 2012, 10:44:56 am »
Another thing that was touched on already, that I will expand on, is the whole idea of 'connection'. There is a need for all living things, and especially the higher living things, to develop connections with other living things, considered in both a physical and a spiritual sense. Much of the breakdown of our society occurs because this need for 'connectedness' is not being properly fulfilled. This need for connectedness varies greatly from person to person. For many, it is a soulmate. For others, it might be that plus children. Spirituality is important for others, and so some benefit from a connection with God. Yet others find connections with animals. For many, a dog or cat is sufficient. Some need stronger connections-- horses build strong bonds for some people. For me, it is lions (especially) and other big cats. There is no way to fit this connectedness into a mold, because everyone expresses it so differently. Unfortunately, there seems to be a 'mold' that some social engineers feel we all need to fit into to be 'connected' by THEIR definition. And of course, it doesn't work. But because these social engineers cannot kame, they cannot figure out why their plans don't work, even though their textbooks and 'science' so-called tell them it will work.

You might enjoy reading this paper, which I co-authored with two other people, about this connectedness http://www.lionlamb.us/lion/Constitution_and_Happiness_10a.doc

Avatar through its great symbolic refrences often refers to "The Bond" or in Na'Vi "Tsahaylu" as we all know native cultures have "allways" seen themselves as a part of or "bonded" to the web of life Science is just starting to understand these facts and build a bridge to what native peoples have allways understood there is a gentleman named David Suzuki who is trying to Build this bridge often using refrences from Avatar and "crossing" them into very real understanding "! its intresting that you point to "kame" and I ask you to please define Kame to help me understand what you mean I am going to post some text on the issue of "seperation" presented by the Pachamama allience  (I now at least can grasp at the meaning of the Na'vi word "kame" as in "True seeing" as in the phrase "I see you")

"Over the Century’s the story that’s been commutated in our modern world consciously or unconsciously has been that the world operates like a "huge" machine made up of separate parts like a "big clock"for the past 400 years the scientific tradition has been trying to take the"clock" apart and figure out how it works so we could master it and use it for our own purposes. This "mechanistic view" merits that instead of "seeing" the inner connection in between things, there was a way of analyzing what people where coming into contact with and taking it "apart" so what evolved was kind of "fragmented" view of the natural world and we became hypnotized really with the power that came out of this technology and we lost what is one of the most fundamental connections to our humanity our connections to "each other" and our connection to the mystery of the universe. (second speaker steps into view) There is a fundamental misconception that "We" are "separate" We are learning that is "not true" If there is only "one" Then whatever I do to you, I do to me, If there is only one, Whatever I do to the air I do to me, If there is only one, Whatever I do in society Is what I am acculy doing to myself, doing to my family, doing to my children (Change of view on a sunset over the ocean) Spiritual traditions have long taught separation is an Illusion Buddhist Teacher Thich Nhat Hanh puts it this way,, We have the word "To BE", But what I propose is that a word to "Inter-Be" Because it is "Not possible"To BE alone, to BE by yourself. You need other people in order to BE, You need other beings in order to BE. not only do you need father, mother but also,uncle,brother,sister,sociaty, "But" You also need Sunshine,Water, Air, Trees, Birds, Elephants, Polar Bears, Bats, and so on. So its imposable to "BE" by "yourself" truly alone, You Have to "Inter-BE" with everyone and everything else, And therefore, to "BE" means to"Inter-BE " increasingly people in the modern world are listening to the voices of Native Peoples who’s message has always been that all things are"connected" (Native American speaker Tom Goldtooth Speaks ) "We use another terminology called me-da-key-yay-oh-wa-say" (please excuse me if my sounds like wording is wrong no disrespect intended) This means"All My Relations" We try and recognize that "We Are Related to Everything" to the animals, to the fish , to the plants , to the trees, to the birds, even the microorganisms ,So the we are all related,( A second female native Speaker Okanagan Author Jeanette Armstrong Speaks) The foundational understanding from my point of view or, Indigenous point of view,is that "you" are a part of that land in a very interdependent way ,"You are a part of that land" Its your body, "Its you" and you can't do things to the land that in the end comes back and destroys "you"(A view of the universe flying through space) This deep recognition of interconnection is supported by the current scientific understanding of the origin of the universe which has shown that all of creation is profoundly connected at the macro and micro level,(Poet and teacher Drew Dillinger speaks) We can see that everything that ever was,, Is ,or will "be" was compressed into a space smaller then a seed smaller then a tear, more minuscule then a molecule, All Space, All Time, and the potential to ever exist started as a single point so in very real sense "science" has "discovered" what native peoples have"known" All along. We are All One ,We are all Connected, We all come from the very same source, everything we see around us has developed from the boiling cauldron of the early earth this sphere of lava that wonderfully gave rise to the sea and the atmosphere and then life’s infiltrate expressions as "Brian Swimme" says the Earth was once molten rock and now sings operas."

There are many that are trying to address this issue in creating films that bring this point to light I am going to again point to the Kogi and there new independent film "Aluna" (I think its better worded "The heart inside nature") but both apply  http://www.alunathemovie.com/the-message  The Kogi people are quite unique they managed to excape the conquest that changed the other native peoples and mantain there ancient Tairona Ancestral knowledge going back in history "before" our mainstream world view came to
power they call us the younger brother "that does not see" I have heard that theme before, the Kogi are suspected of having a very unique ability, lets call it "real" Tsahaylu" and if true (and its posable it is not)
The speaker mentions of this way of speaking "It made all the languages of the world seem inadequate and obsolete" if there is truth behind this  http://thesourceasia.com/index.php/spirit/224-amazon-tribe-talk-via-heart-sounds that would make the Kogi's message to us "very important" for people to listen to but of course this message is Universal and has been spoken in warning by native peoples many times and ignored
there orignal film The elder brothers warning is almost 20 years old and was all but "ignored"


They have asked the orignal filmmaker Alan Ereira to help them produce a new film "Aluna" to try and show our people something very diffrent, to speak on this, one must first define the creation story of there people
What is "Aluna" ? And this honestly "mirrors "Eywa" and Avatar in many ways.
"Aluna is" "Pure Thought, Memory spirit, mind, soul, imagnation. The Entity out of which all things are born , In which everything is contained. In Aluna there is the memory of the past and the potential for the future. Aluna forms the Bridge betwean the universe and the human spirit (and all other living beings) all native peoples have creation storys usuly passed down through "spoken" tradition and storytelling from the Elder to the young people "bonding" the community together they almost all speak of one comcept
"We are all related" In Lakota "Mitakuye Oyasin" in Mi'kmaq its "Nogama" the Kogi are Condor people, the
Lakota and Mi'kmaq are peoples of Turtle island (North Amarica) and are Eagle peoples there are cultural diffrences "But" still the comon understanding that we are all connected and related "not seperate" this example in true reality has its flaws as "what is said" and "what is true" come into play in tribal discourse "diffrent tribes dont allways get along" the Kogi try and avoid conflict by isolating themselves by choise this is a trailer for there new film  

      
    
 
    
  
« Last Edit: July 29, 2012, 12:39:15 pm by allrock123 »

Offline Niri Te

  • Palulukan Makto
  • *****
  • *
  • Posts: 1256
  • Karma: 23
  • Yayo Alefngap Tswayonyu
Re: Looking into the roots behind the connective "feeling" from Avatar
« Reply #7 on: July 29, 2012, 11:20:04 am »
 There were a series of experiments done with plants several decades ago.  A group of plants were grown in separate pots, and after several months, were separated into two groups, each in their own room, with a concrete wall separating them. All of the plants in one of the rooms were scientifically monitored both for their electrochemical activity, with video cameras.  a day or two after setting up the surveillance, the plants that were not monitored had their stems sheared off several inches above the ground. At the precise time that this was going on, the plants in the other room reacted VIOLENTLY, as if they were going through Trauma.
 What I took from this years ago, when I read of it back in College, was "Gee I guess that the Vegetarians that call us carnivores brutal murderers, are JUST as bad". In order for us to live, something has to die. "We call that "the wheel". You can not abstain from killing something, but you can do it in as humane a way as possible. When I kill an animal, I make GREAT strides at insuring that I make the shot in such a way that the animal is DEAD before it's carcass hits the ground. The one thing that we CAN do before we eat, is to thank and honor the animal or the plant for it's sacrifice.
 Niri Te
Tokx alu tawtute, Tirea Le Na'vi

Offline Seze Mune

  • Palulukan Makto
  • *****
  • *
  • Posts: 2052
  • Karma: 39
  • Fwa kan ke lu nìtam. Nga zene swizawit livonu.
    • Our fun & awesome RP: Aysautral
Re: Looking into the roots behind the connective "feeling" from Avatar
« Reply #8 on: July 29, 2012, 12:14:52 pm »
There were a series of experiments done with plants several decades ago.  A group of plants were grown in separate pots, and after several months, were separated into two groups, each in their own room, with a concrete wall separating them. All of the plants in one of the rooms were scientifically monitored both for their electrochemical activity, with video cameras.  a day or two after setting up the surveillance, the plants that were not monitored had their stems sheared off several inches above the ground. At the precise time that this was going on, the plants in the other room reacted VIOLENTLY, as if they were going through Trauma.
 What I took from this years ago, when I read of it back in College, was "Gee I guess that the Vegetarians that call us carnivores brutal murderers, are JUST as bad". In order for us to live, something has to die. "We call that "the wheel". You can not abstain from killing something, but you can do it in as humane a way as possible. When I kill an animal, I make GREAT strides at insuring that I make the shot in such a way that the animal is DEAD before it's carcass hits the ground. The one thing that we CAN do before we eat, is to thank and honor the animal or the plant for it's sacrifice.
 Niri Te

Fì'u tìng oel meuiat ngaru, ma Niri Te.

Offline Toruk Makto

  • LearnNavi Admin
  • Toruk Makto
  • Palulukan Makto
  • *****
  • *
  • Posts: 6134
  • nv Eywa'eveng
  • Karma: 215
  • . Txepsiyu Markì .
    • Learn Na'vi
Re: Looking into the roots behind the connective "feeling" from Avatar
« Reply #9 on: July 30, 2012, 11:28:14 am »
 Allrock: That is a very detailed and fascinating description and it goes much deeper into the philosophical realm than I usually go. In the special effects business, it is easy to get too close to the trees (as it were) in the mechanics of creating, so I frequently have to remind myself to back away for a refresher on the broader experience. But beyond just the concepts of connectedness, when people have asked me why I think Avatar had such a profound effect on some people, my reply covers some of what you have already eloquently described, but with less detail. My usual reply is:


 From a pragmatic viewpoint, I think that what hooks a lot of people are several very carefully crafted things. First of all, this film was created by a lot of people with a very profound desire to realize Jim Cameron's depth of feeling for the story and the meaning behind it. That kind of passion is subliminal, but very strong in the finished product whether you are looking for it or not. That is also what hooked me and has driven me to administer this community and become much more active in supporting Amazon Watch and other organizations that support indigenous peoples.

 At the descriptive level, the soundtrack is full of drums and other primitive sounds. There is the unique concept of a "referred first person", where the viewer relates to the Na'vi with the concept of virtually becoming one of them via the avatars which are physically impressive and attractive. There are points in the film when interaction with the main protagonist, Jake, goes to direct first person where you are seeing what he sees. There is also the intricate attention to detail in the CG visuals and the supporting concepts like the viable Na'vi language. There is very little that comes off as fantasy or unbelievable since just about everything is based on concepts and principles that we accept as real world today. And who hasn't dreamed of flying? All of this interacts with our primitive brain which serves to profoundly engage the viewer on a very personal level and drives a desire for be connected to and involved in such a world. And then all of that is hammered home in the last minute of the film where Jake gives up his broken human body and accepts all that the Na'vi represent by permanently and irreversibly becoming one of the people. The ending is almost an emotional overload for many people.

 At the prescriptive level, there is the concept of the physical connectedness of tsaheylu and references to the energy of all living things. Our cultural bias to believe in supreme beings is tweaked by the empirical depiction of the existence of Eywa when Jake's "prayer" at the Vitrautral is answered in spectacular fashion during the battle sequence. Then of course, there are the critically important underlying storyline basics of trust, love, greed and the conflict of "good" vs "evil". All of this interacts with many people in the subconscious which makes it very compelling, but also very hard to describe exactly why it is so.


Markì
« Last Edit: July 30, 2012, 11:31:56 am by Toruk Makto »

Lì’fyari leNa’vi ’Rrtamì, vay set ’almong a fra’u zera’u ta ngrrpongu
Na'vi Dictionary: http://files.learnnavi.org/dicts/NaviDictionary.pdf

Offline allrock123

  • Uniltìranyu
  • **
  • Posts: 116
  • Karma: 3
Re: Looking into the roots behind the connective "feeling" from Avatar
« Reply #10 on: July 30, 2012, 09:16:41 pm »
Allrock: That is a very detailed and fascinating description and it goes much deeper into the philosophical realm than I usually go. In the special effects business, it is easy to get too close to the trees (as it were) in the mechanics of creating, so I frequently have to remind myself to back away for a refresher on the broader experience. But beyond just the concepts of connectedness, when people have asked me why I think Avatar had such a profound effect on some people, my reply covers some of what you have already eloquently described, but with less detail. My usual reply is:


 From a pragmatic viewpoint, I think that what hooks a lot of people are several very carefully crafted things. First of all, this film was created by a lot of people with a very profound desire to realize Jim Cameron's depth of feeling for the story and the meaning behind it. That kind of passion is subliminal, but very strong in the finished product whether you are looking for it or not. That is also what hooked me and has driven me to administer this community and become much more active in supporting Amazon Watch and other organizations that support indigenous peoples.

 At the descriptive level, the soundtrack is full of drums and other primitive sounds. There is the unique concept of a "referred first person", where the viewer relates to the Na'vi with the concept of virtually becoming one of them via the avatars which are physically impressive and attractive. There are points in the film when interaction with the main protagonist, Jake, goes to direct first person where you are seeing what he sees. There is also the intricate attention to detail in the CG visuals and the supporting concepts like the viable Na'vi language. There is very little that comes off as fantasy or unbelievable since just about everything is based on concepts and principles that we accept as real world today. And who hasn't dreamed of flying? All of this interacts with our primitive brain which serves to profoundly engage the viewer on a very personal level and drives a desire for be connected to and involved in such a world. And then all of that is hammered home in the last minute of the film where Jake gives up his broken human body and accepts all that the Na'vi represent by permanently and irreversibly becoming one of the people. The ending is almost an emotional overload for many people.

 At the prescriptive level, there is the concept of the physical connectedness of tsaheylu and references to the energy of all living things. Our cultural bias to believe in supreme beings is tweaked by the empirical depiction of the existence of Eywa when Jake's "prayer" at the Vitrautral is answered in spectacular fashion during the battle sequence. Then of course, there are the critically important underlying storyline basics of trust, love, greed and the conflict of "good" vs "evil". All of this interacts with many people in the subconscious which makes it very compelling, but also very hard to describe exactly why it is so.


Markì

One of my main issues with Avatar relates to how the media address the film and its fans and also the issues some people experence
with so called depression that so many experenced the media even coined the term "Post Avatar Depression" its almost universaly assumed people with such problems suffer from "attachment to fantasy" but there is a flipside to the coin not spoken on, As I have said Avatar at its heart is a relative mirror story with a ton of well researched and rather beleavable examples that we "sublimely" relate to like many of the creatures using the sounds of real earth animals (like the viperwolves) the whole film resonates with this running under it if one askes Cameron himself What was the films take away message ?   "You fight emotion with emotion"  but there is a intresting side of things that is not often spoken on and it has to do with our (going to use a science term not spiritual) our deep inner "subconscious understanding" "already knows what Avatar speaks of" but in our culture we "chose" to disconnect from this understanding I will quote another saying from James Cameron "

 "“The success of the Avatar is very interesting,” Mr. Cameron observes. “I think it says less about the movie’s ability to "change people’s minds" than about the movie’s ability to "key into" what people are thinking at the subconscious level.” At the intellectual level, we’re in denial about the state of the planet, Mr. Cameron argues, “but at the subconscious level, "We know the truth" !!!. And the truth is we need be much more respectful of the nature and the natural boundaries and deadlines. "We all need a way of collectively waking up to this".

This source of inner understanding is very real and in some is likey behind the connective fealing  "but" again in our culture we are told from childhood it has no value "disconnect" of course native peoples share a diffrent "World View" on these fealings and understanding this the question then arises "Is the subconscious connective feeling from inside a "real" orignating source of this fealing "or an Avatar created delusion created by the films paradise dream like setting examples and 3D immersive experence, Cameron says ""If one can Connect people in mass to "this source" "we wont need to tell them, they allready know in a way "breaks denial" at its fundmental roots".

 "As Filmmaker We Can do just that"

 
 
 
    
 

Offline Seze Mune

  • Palulukan Makto
  • *****
  • *
  • Posts: 2052
  • Karma: 39
  • Fwa kan ke lu nìtam. Nga zene swizawit livonu.
    • Our fun & awesome RP: Aysautral
Re: Looking into the roots behind the connective "feeling" from Avatar
« Reply #11 on: July 30, 2012, 09:33:37 pm »
Allrock, these comments resonate with me.  I think they resonate with many people who for reasons of their own will not admit it.  Oftentimes these are folks who like thinking they are of a scientific bent.  I am not dissing science, mind you.  Still...I agree with yours and Mr. Cameron's statements as I understand them.

Offline allrock123

  • Uniltìranyu
  • **
  • Posts: 116
  • Karma: 3
Re: Looking into the roots behind the connective "feeling" from Avatar
« Reply #12 on: July 31, 2012, 07:54:53 am »
Allrock, these comments resonate with me.  I think they resonate with many people who for reasons of their own will not admit it.  Oftentimes these are folks who like thinking they are of a scientific bent.  I am not dissing science, mind you.  Still...I agree with yours and Mr. Cameron's statements as I understand them.

I allways make effort to try and have a down to earth view on things and to look at an issue from many angles I would love to share my experence and story openly but feel moderation is the better part of judgement on my part as I want others to come to there "own" opinions on this, I fully understand Avatar and its visual exampes are a work of fiction "But" they mirror very real world issues in doing human rights work I saw very "real world" issues "reflected" very strongly in the films story another my have a very diffrent viewpoint for example if one takes a look at how the people of China view the film, or the people of Equador Avatar has a very direct in your face meaning there  Why is this important ? Beacuse Cameron has made honest effort to get the opinions from native peoples on how
Avatar represented the issues there people where experencing "Now" He was taken by suprise by some of them and through subjective criticisum made "changes" to "reflect" there views and what they truly face he has taken time to speak with some of there groups and ask some very difficult questions on how to better represent how they would truly act on these issues and to make changes to future Avatar films in respect of these facts. 
« Last Edit: July 31, 2012, 08:13:03 am by allrock123 »

Offline Seze Mune

  • Palulukan Makto
  • *****
  • *
  • Posts: 2052
  • Karma: 39
  • Fwa kan ke lu nìtam. Nga zene swizawit livonu.
    • Our fun & awesome RP: Aysautral
Re: Looking into the roots behind the connective "feeling" from Avatar
« Reply #13 on: July 31, 2012, 07:59:16 am »
I would enjoy hearing your personal story via PM if you would care to share it.  I wouldn't be surprised if mine were similar.

Offline allrock123

  • Uniltìranyu
  • **
  • Posts: 116
  • Karma: 3
Re: Looking into the roots behind the connective "feeling" from Avatar
« Reply #14 on: February 23, 2013, 08:49:19 pm »
I realise this topic has not been active for some time, But I feel it is nessary to update some of the things I spoke on
there is a research project ongoing on this subject and there allready some very suprising down to earth results that speak on very real world change on global core understanding revolving around Avatar. One of the core issues that has realy started to come out of the closet speaks on one of the deepest human issues driving humanitys " Core Sense Of Seperation".
Many of These root core issues reflect on Human Tribalism and are the root reason why our people are in constant
conflit with each other from the family level to international global conflicts and disrespect of nature    they also spoke on the root core "Source" of the feelings and emotions .
Most people assume its "The film" that caused them. but there strong is evidence they may originate from from a very deep place that is a part of our primal core heartfelt understanding and that " The Bond is Real" I am going to quote part of a report written by Ana Levy Lyons  

"The people struck with the Avatar blues are "legitimately grieving" the tragedy of our
world – grieving the destruction of our environment, the wars, the cruelties, the
isolation, and all the ways in which we as individuals are rarely really seen by others.
The movie pointed to the deep value of their "Own" awareness of the chasm between the world as it is and the
world as it ought to be. They came away feeling alienated from our culture, and
appropriately so."

Where it starts to get intresting, and this deep responce likely took Even Cameron himself By supprise is the deep "source" of this core emotive responce, this core understanding and the "Seperation issue" are spoken on very powerfuly in the introducton of this video Lakota:A mesage to all our humanity "The Star People" this is a Spiritual example "

But there is "science roots" behind this example as well " "

I ask people to "reality check" anything spoken on here I make mistakes just like anyone else there are very real world programs trying to address and heal the deep human issues people reflect apon from "inside"
When the full study results are released I will be able to present a deeper picture on James Camerons Avatar and Human understanding.
 
In Vermont where I live people are trying to address the core human issues. with both smart technoligy and comon sense.
This consept is called "Whole Communitys" where people truly "see each other" and re-bond to nature restoring deep human roots and lowering our human impact on the natural world.  
 
 

 
« Last Edit: February 23, 2013, 09:03:47 pm by allrock123 »

 

Become LearnNavi's friend on Facebook Follow LearnNavi on Twitter! Watch LearnNavi's videos on YouTube

SMF 2.0.15 | SMF © 2017, Simple Machines
Privacy Policy
| XHTML | RSS | WAP2 | Site Rules

LearnNavi is not affiliated with the official Avatar website,
James Cameron, LightStorm Entertainment or The Walt Disney Company.
All trademarks and servicemarks are the properties of their respective owners.
Images in the LearnNavi.org Forums and Gallery may not be used without permission.

LearnNavi Affiliates:
ToS

LearnNavi is the community to learn Na'vi, the Avatar Language
"A place where real friendships are made." -Paul Frommer

AvatarMeet | Learn Na'vi Forum | Learn Na'vi Wiki | Na'viteri

LearnNavi