Author Topic: Vraag - Vertaling?  (Read 2682 times)

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Offline Tìtstewan

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Vraag - Vertaling?
« on: March 12, 2013, 12:30:29 pm »
Kaltxì ayngaru!

Oeru txoa livu fwa oe pamrel sivi nìÌnglìsì fìtsenge. :-[

I will ask for the possibility to translate my The Na'vi Number System script to Dutch language?
I want to make my files multilingual, so may it would be great.
Currently available languages. German, English, French, Hungarian and Russian.
Is the translation finished, I will PM Markì to upload it to Learn Na'vi website. :)
If is anyone interested in, please let me know for materials.

Irayo ulte Eywa ayngahu!
 - ta Tìtstewan
« Last Edit: March 12, 2013, 12:33:36 pm by Tìtstewan »

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Offline eejmensenikbenhet

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Re: Vraag - Vertaling?
« Reply #1 on: April 03, 2013, 04:32:17 pm »
Hey Tìtstewan, shau bitte erstmal den PM den ich dir geshikt habe an.
Hier ist mein Version.
« Last Edit: April 03, 2013, 04:53:51 pm by eejmensenikbenhet »

Offline eejmensenikbenhet

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Re: Vraag - Vertaling?
« Reply #2 on: April 03, 2013, 05:31:25 pm »
It turned out to be quite easy to change my version into English, so here's (in my opinion) a better English version.
Again, I took some liberty and gave it Version 1.06 :-[

Hmm, I'm writing in Dutch, English and German, I'm getting confused. Hivahaw ko!

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Re: Vraag - Vertaling?
« Reply #3 on: April 03, 2013, 05:39:29 pm »
Kaltxì ma eejmensenikbenhet!

'Awve: Oe irayo si ngaru nìtxan!
I will write in English and German here:
Ich werde hier in Englisch und Deutsch schreiben:

I have read your PM and let's solve the confusion.
Ich habe deine PM gelesen und lösen wir die Unklarheiten.


Quote from: English
If you want to use numbers greater than eight, it is done as follows:

nine      volaw      vol + -aw      one times  8 + 1
tenvomunvol + -munone times  8 + 2

Quote from: Deutsch
Möchte man Zahlen größer als 8 sagen, so schreibt es man wie folgt:

neun      volaw      vol + -aw      einmal 8 + 1
zehnvomunvol + -muneinmal 8 + 2
In your translation you have leave out the 'multiplier', which I have written as a word.
In deiner Übersetzung hast du den 'Multiplikator' weggelassen, welche ich als Wort geschrieben habe.
The following example you may see why I did it.
Am folgenden Beispiel siehst du vielleicht warum ich das gemacht habe.
Quote from: English
three-hundred-eighty-fourpuzampu- + zam six times      64
four-hundred-sixty-onekizamvohin    ki- + zam + vo + -hin    seven times  64 + one times   8 + 7
four-hundred-ninety-eightkizampuvomunki- + zam + pu- + vo + -mun seven times  64 + six times   8 + 2

Quote from: Deutsch
dreihundertvierundachtzigpuzampu- + zamsechsmal 64
vierhunderteinundsechzig  kizamvohin    ki- + zam + vo + -hin   siebenmal 64 + einmal 8 + 7
vierhundertachtundneunzigkizampuvomunki- + zam + pu- + vo + -munsiebenmal 64 + sechsmal 8 + 2

puzam   pu- + zam   six times      64
---> pu- = six times | zam = 64

kizamvohin       ki- + zam + vo + -hin      seven times  64 + one times   8 + 7
---> ki- = seven times | zam = 64 | one times = 1 | vo = 8 | hin = 7

You could also write:
Man könnte auch schreiben:
kizamvohin = 7 x 64 + 1 x 8 + 7
Originally I wanted to write it as a number, but then it looked too mathematical, and it could cause confusion, so I wrote the 'multipliers' as word.
Ursprünglich wollte ich es als Zahl schreiben, aber dann sah es zu mathematisch aus und es könnte verwirrung auslösen, also habe ich die 'Multiplikatoren' als Wort geschrieben.



Quote from: English
5 trees --> mrra utral / utral amrr --> number + a <-- which refers to the noun.
14 people --> vofua tawtute / tawtute avofu

And then we write it as a figure:
5 trees --> °5a utral / utral a5° --> number + a <-- which refers to the noun.
14 people --> °16a tawtute / tawtute a16°

Quote from: Deutsch
5 Bäume --> mrra utral/utral amrr } Zahl + a { welche sich auf das Nomen bezieht.
14 Menschen --> vofua tawtute/tawtute avofu

Und so schreibt man es als Zahl:
5 Bäume --> °5a utral/utral a5° } Zahl + a { welche sich auf das Nomen bezieht.
14 Menschen --> °16a tawtute/tawtute a16°

Quote
} Zahl + a { welche sich auf das Nomen bezieht. / --> number + a <-- which refers to the noun.
This refers to the structure. (That's why the colors)
Dies bezieht sich auf den Aufbau. (Deswegen die Farben)



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Re: Vraag - Vertaling?
« Reply #4 on: April 03, 2013, 05:51:53 pm »
It turned out to be quite easy to change my version into English, so here's (in my opinion) a better English version.
Again, I took some liberty and gave it Version 1.06 :-[

Hmm, I'm writing in Dutch, English and German, I'm getting confused. Hivahaw ko!
The original file was in German. I translated it into English but Tirea Aean has corrected it.
The official English version is version 1.05

The dutch translation will be a new file with the version 1.00.

I would recommend you to use the attached doc (MS Office 97-03) file.

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Offline eejmensenikbenhet

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Re: Vraag - Vertaling?
« Reply #5 on: April 03, 2013, 06:32:35 pm »
Kaltxì ma eejmensenikbenhet!

'Awve: Oe irayo si ngaru nìtxan!
I will write in English and German here:
Ich werde hier in Englisch und Deutsch schreiben:

I have read your PM and let's solve the confusion.
Ich habe deine PM gelesen und lösen wir die Unklarheiten.
Kea tìkin! Danke fur dein schnelles Antwort, ma Tìtstewan!
Ich werde dir nur auf Deutsch antworten weil ich den Ausübung brauche und weil es kurzer ist als Deutsch und Englisch.

Quote from: Deutsch
Möchte man Zahlen größer als 8 sagen, so schreibt es man wie folgt:

neun      volaw      vol + -aw      einmal 8 + 1
zehnvomunvol + -muneinmal 8 + 2
In deiner Übersetzung hast du den 'Multiplikator' weggelassen, welche ich als Wort geschrieben habe.
Am folgenden Beispiel siehst du vielleicht warum ich das gemacht habe.
Quote from: Deutsch
dreihundertvierundachtzigpuzampu- + zamsechsmal 64
vierhunderteinundsechzig  kizamvohin    ki- + zam + vo + -hin   siebenmal 64 + einmal 8 + 7
vierhundertachtundneunzigkizampuvomunki- + zam + pu- + vo + -munsiebenmal 64 + sechsmal 8 + 2

puzam   pu- + zam   six times      64
---> pu- = six times | zam = 64

kizamvohin       ki- + zam + vo + -hin      seven times  64 + one times   8 + 7
---> ki- = seven times | zam = 64 | one times = 1 | vo = 8 | hin = 7

Man könnte auch schreiben:
kizamvohin = 7 x 64 + 1 x 8 + 7
Ursprünglich wollte ich es als Zahl schreiben, aber dann sah es zu mathematisch aus und es könnte verwirrung auslösen, also habe ich die 'Multiplikatoren' als Wort geschrieben.
Wenn ich den ersten Beispiel gelesen hatte dachte ich: "Ganz einfach, stimmt genau, weiß nur nicht warum er dort 'erstmal' geschrieben hat." Aber nachdem ich den zweiten gelesen hatte dachte ich mal kurz "Sechsmal acht und fünf? Das ist vielleicht ein Fehler." Ich sah den mathematische Ordnung nicht weil das 'mal'-Teil als Wort geschrieben wäre. Deswegen hatte ich gedacht das zu ändern. Wenn ich's so lese dan lese ich: "sechsmal dreizehn" und "siebenmal vierundsechtzig + sechsmal zehn".



Quote from: Deutsch
5 Bäume --> mrra utral/utral amrr } Zahl + a { welche sich auf das Nomen bezieht.
14 Menschen --> vofua tawtute/tawtute avofu

Und so schreibt man es als Zahl:
5 Bäume --> °5a utral/utral a5° } Zahl + a { welche sich auf das Nomen bezieht.
14 Menschen --> °16a tawtute/tawtute a16°

Quote
} Zahl + a { welche sich auf das Nomen bezieht. / --> number + a <-- which refers to the noun.
Dies bezieht sich auf den Aufbau. (Deswegen die Farben)
Habe ich verstanden, weiß jedoch nicht was du meinst... ???
Ich habe dort nur den Pfeilen ersetzt durch 'tabs' weil du das 'Tabs-System' im ganzem Document benützt hast für Beispielen.
Weiter hab ich den Beispielen umgewechseld, also alle Beispielen sind in mein version gleichartig:
Bedeutung   Na'vi mit Farben für Wortteilen   Extra Daten/Information
5 Bäume   utral amrr / mrra utral   Zahl + a (welche sich auf das Nomen bezieht)
14 Menschen   tawtute avofu / vofua tawtute



It turned out to be quite easy to change my version into English, so here's (in my opinion) a better English version.
Again, I took some liberty and gave it Version 1.06 :-[

Hmm, I'm writing in Dutch, English and German, I'm getting confused. Hivahaw ko!
The original file was in German. I translated it into English but Tirea Aean has corrected it.
The official English version is version 1.05

The dutch translation will be a new file with the version 1.00.

I would recommend you to use the attached doc (MS Office 97-03) file.
When we have figured out how to phrase everything, worked out the little problems, I will make a finalized version with the correct version number. If you don't mind using my tables, that is, it took me quite some time to make them and you have to be honest, they are more readable.

Eywa ngahu! (Jetzt geh ich mal wirklich schlafen, guten nacht!)

Offline Tìtstewan

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Re: Vraag - Vertaling?
« Reply #6 on: April 03, 2013, 07:26:33 pm »
Kea tìkin! Danke fur dein schnelles Antwort, ma Tìtstewan!
Ich werde dir nur auf Deutsch antworten weil ich den Ausübung brauche und weil es kurzer ist als Deutsch und Englisch.
Kea tìkin. Und weiter zweisprachig. :)
Kea tìkin. And more bilingual. :)

Wenn ich den ersten Beispiel gelesen hatte dachte ich: "Ganz einfach, stimmt genau, weiß nur nicht warum er dort 'erstmal' geschrieben hat." Aber nachdem ich den zweiten gelesen hatte dachte ich mal kurz "Sechsmal acht und fünf? Das ist vielleicht ein Fehler." Ich sah den mathematische Ordnung nicht weil das 'mal'-Teil als Wort geschrieben wäre. Deswegen hatte ich gedacht das zu ändern. Wenn ich's so lese dan lese ich: "sechsmal dreizehn" und "siebenmal vierundsechtzig + sechsmal zehn".
Die Logik ist aber verständlich? Auch wenn mein 'einmal' ein entsprechendes Na'vi-Wort fehlt (weil es unnötig ist), in dem Sinne: 1 x YX. Gemeint ist hier, dass die Zahl nur einmal gebraucht wird.
The logic is understandable? Even though my 'once' a corresponding Na'vi word is missing (because it is unnecessary), in the sense of: 1 x XY. What is meant here that the number is used only once.



Habe ich verstanden, weiß jedoch nicht was du meinst... ???
Ich habe dort nur den Pfeilen ersetzt durch 'tabs' weil du das 'Tabs-System' im ganzem Document benützt hast für Beispielen.
Weiter hab ich den Beispielen umgewechseld, also alle Beispielen sind in mein version gleichartig:
Bedeutung   Na'vi mit Farben für Wortteilen   Extra Daten/Information
5 Bäume   utral amrr / mrra utral   Zahl + a (welche sich auf das Nomen bezieht)
14 Menschen   tawtute avofu / vofua tawtute
Oh, leider habe ich zu spät bemerkt, dass du in den Script eine Zahl und eine Ziffer meinst. :-[ Das ist in Ordnung.
Oh, sorry I noticed too late that you are mean in the script once a number and a digit. :-[ That's OK.



When we have figured out how to phrase everything, worked out the little problems, I will make a finalized version with the correct version number. If you don't mind using my tables, that is, it took me quite some time to make them and you have to be honest, they are more readable.
Normalerweise mache ich die Tabellen, weil ich diese auch in der 'Tabellenbox' anbiete. Nach den Tabellen zu fragen, wäre sicher einfacher gewesen...
Usually I do the tables, because I offering these also in the 'Table box'. To ask for the tables would have been certainly easier...

It is attached here:

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Re: Vraag - Vertaling?
« Reply #7 on: April 09, 2013, 12:21:47 pm »
So, I write the script fo the this section. Hmm, I just missing a Na'vi language section in the Dutch subforum.
If is this script ok, I will create a PDF file and put it on the website of LN.org.
Here only the table is missing.

« Last Edit: April 09, 2013, 04:06:00 pm by Tìtstewan »

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Re: Vraag - Vertaling?
« Reply #8 on: April 09, 2013, 03:45:09 pm »
So, I write the script fo the this section. Hmm, I just missing a Na'vi language section in the Dutch subforum.
If is this script ok, I will create a PDF file and put it on the website of LN.org.
Here only the table is missing.
[...]

There's still some things that aren't completely right: The mathematical mistake in the first paragraph is still there.
Correct would be:
Quote
In plaats van de vorm m x 10 + n, maken de Na'vi gebruik van de vorm m x 8 + n. Voorbeeld: 4 x 8 + 4 = 448.
3610 is gelijk aan 448.

Then there's "six times 64", which should be:
Quote
zesmaal 64

I really enjoyed translating and I would like to ask whether we can work together on improving the 'document' as I have some issues with the current version.

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Re: Vraag - Vertaling?
« Reply #9 on: April 09, 2013, 04:02:34 pm »
There's still some things that aren't completely right: The mathematical mistake in the first paragraph is still there.
Correct would be:
Quote
In plaats van de vorm m x 10 + n, maken de Na'vi gebruik van de vorm m x 8 + n. Voorbeeld: 4 x 8 + 4 = 448.
3610 is gelijk aan 448.
Hmm...this would be also wrong:
4 x 108 + 4 = 448

I really enjoyed translating and I would like to ask whether we can work together on improving the 'document' as I have some issues with the current version.
Which parts/segments need a correction?

Oh hell, do you believe I need to correct 5 differnent files? :-[ :-X

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Re: Vraag - Vertaling?
« Reply #10 on: April 09, 2013, 04:16:33 pm »
Ok, I started to rework the files completely. Tomorrow evening I will be finish. :)

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Re: Vraag - Vertaling?
« Reply #11 on: April 09, 2013, 06:41:23 pm »
There's still some things that aren't completely right: The mathematical mistake in the first paragraph is still there.
Correct would be:
Quote
In plaats van de vorm m x 10 + n, maken de Na'vi gebruik van de vorm m x 8 + n. Voorbeeld: 4 x 8 + 4 = 448.
3610 is gelijk aan 448.
Hmm...this would be also wrong:
4 x 108 + 4 = 448
Yes, that's wrong indeed. One of the reasons I would rephrase that section...

It works like this:
Quote
m x 10 + n = mn10
m x 8 + n = mn8
So your examples would be:
Quote
3 x 10 + 6 = 3610
4 x 8 + 4 = 448
4 x 8 + 4 = 3610 and therefor: 3610 = 448

If you were to use even more numbers (let's take 5 as an example), a better way of writing it would be:
Quote
a x 104 + b x 103 + c x 102 + d x 101 + e x 100 = abcde10
f x 84 + g x 83 + h x 82 + i x 81 + j x 80 = fghij8
These are the basic principles on which number systems like the decimal and octal are based.
When you put the digit '5' on any of these letters, it would have a different value every time (excluding 'e' and 'j', a '5' on those would have the same value.)

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Re: Vraag - Vertaling?
« Reply #12 on: April 09, 2013, 11:36:37 pm »
[...]
Yes, that's wrong indeed. One of the reasons I would rephrase that section...

It works like this:
Quote
m x 10 + n = mn10
m x 8 + n = mn8
So your examples would be:
Quote
3 x 10 + 6 = 3610
4 x 8 + 4 = 448
4 x 8 + 4 = 3610 and therefor: 3610 = 448
Indeed. I will rework all files and will look if I rework the tables. I think, the need also an 'update'.

Here is a little part of change:

The numbers are also colorated.

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Re: Vraag - Vertaling?
« Reply #13 on: April 11, 2013, 03:48:06 pm »
So, a lots of hours of work, but is finished.

The complete reworked file.

Change log:
 - optimized structure
 - error fixed
 - add complete reworked tables which is not integrated as an image. It is fully integreated into the document. (quiet good quality :))
 - add colors at the relevant parts

File version: 2.00

Could anyone can take a look on this dutch file for reporting mistakes, before I put it on the website?
Irayo!


Edit: File removed.
- ta Tìtstewan

« Last Edit: April 15, 2013, 03:54:22 pm by Tìtstewan »

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Re: Vraag - Vertaling?
« Reply #14 on: April 15, 2013, 03:56:59 pm »
Ma eejmensenikbenhet

I had a good discussion about the structure and colorazing in an other forum.
This is the most actual concempt for the number (from the french section):





Trois cents quatre-vingt-quatrepuzampu- + zamsix fois  64
38410 6008 6  x  10086  x  6410




38410 6008 ( 6 * 8 * 8 ) + ( 0 * 8 ) + 0pu-zam




Quatre cents soixante-et-unkizamvomrr    ki- + zam + vo + -mrr   sept fois  64  +  8  +  5
46110 7158 7  x  1008 +  108 + 57  x  6410 +  810 +  5




46110 7158 ( 7 * 8 * 8 ) + ( 1 * 8 ) + 5ki-zam-vo-mrr




Quatre cents quatre-vingt-dix-huit   kizampuvomun  ki- + zam + pu- + vo + -mun   sept fois  64 + six fois  8 + 2
49810 7628 7  x  1008 +  6  x  108 +  27  x  6410 +  6  x  810 +  2




49810 7628 ( 7 * 8 * 8 ) + ( 6 * 8 ) + 2ki-zam-pu-vo-mun






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Re: Vraag - Vertaling?
« Reply #15 on: April 16, 2013, 04:06:34 pm »
Ma eejmensenikbenhet

I had a good discussion about the structure and colorazing in an other forum.
This is the most actual concempt for the number (from the french section):





Trois cents quatre-vingt-quatrepuzampu- + zamsix fois  64
38410 6008 6  x  10086  x  6410




38410 6008 ( 6 * 8 * 8 ) + ( 0 * 8 ) + 0pu-zam




Quatre cents soixante-et-unkizamvomrr    ki- + zam + vo + -mrr   sept fois  64  +  8  +  5
46110 7158 7  x  1008 +  108 + 57  x  6410 +  810 +  5




46110 7158 ( 7 * 8 * 8 ) + ( 1 * 8 ) + 5ki-zam-vo-mrr




Quatre cents quatre-vingt-dix-huit   kizampuvomun  ki- + zam + pu- + vo + -mun   sept fois  64 + six fois  8 + 2
49810 7628 7  x  1008 +  6  x  108 +  27  x  6410 +  6  x  810 +  2




49810 7628 ( 7 * 8 * 8 ) + ( 6 * 8 ) + 2ki-zam-pu-vo-mun




That looks very nice, ma Tìtstewan, very clear and to the point.
I think this covers the different aspects of the way you work with the numbers better than the current form.

Offline Tìtstewan

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Re: Vraag - Vertaling?
« Reply #16 on: April 16, 2013, 04:22:36 pm »
This was a result of a long diskussion with Xelloss. He would have the stucture of the LN number website also inlcuded in the file. I have to change just the yellow color of 'vo' / 108 to prevent confusion with the colorated number and words below.
I also think about the Idea to add a fourth example with a larger number to complete the possibilities. :)

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Re: Vraag - Vertaling?
« Reply #17 on: April 19, 2013, 02:50:42 pm »
Kaltxì ayngaru!

I need a little help of translating.

How do you say 26284 in your language?


Irayo ulte Eywa ayngahu!

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Re: Vraag - Vertaling?
« Reply #18 on: April 22, 2013, 10:29:55 am »
Kaltxì ayngaru!

I need a little help of translating.

How do you say 26284 in your language?


Irayo ulte Eywa ayngahu!
zesentwintigduizend tweehonderdvierentachtig

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Re: Vraag - Vertaling?
« Reply #19 on: July 16, 2013, 02:05:10 pm »
Kaltxì ayngaru!

I want to update the files, also I want to fix some mistakes.
What would this mean in your language?
To write big number, use this schema:
(prefix + zazam) + (prefix + vozam) + (prefix + zam) + prefix + vo(l) + suffix
Any part in parentheses can be omitted.


Irayo! :D

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