ISO Code!

Tsmuktengan · November 12, 2011, 02:48:46 PM

Quote from: Taronyu on November 12, 2011, 10:08:53 AM
Aw. Well, it's still recognized by the ISO

Yes indeed. And it is great as well.

Human No More · November 13, 2011, 05:49:13 PM

Brilliant!

I was actually wondering about this before, about what it takes to get one.

Quote from: Taronyu on November 12, 2011, 07:08:41 AM
And I think that recognition would be pretty awesome.

This means that, quite officially, you can put Na'vi down as a language you're bilingual in, for one. And I mean that for pretty much any official document.

Now that is epic

I really need to learn some more so I can do that...

'Oma Tirea · November 13, 2011, 11:29:09 PM

Quote from: Taronyu on November 12, 2011, 07:08:41 AM
This means that, quite officially, you can put Na'vi down as a language you're bilingual in, for one.

Srane, ma Taronyu, you are remarkable for doing this (if it was you who got Na'vi an ISO code)

Taronyu · November 14, 2011, 01:39:54 AM

See above. Not a golden bullet --- but still pretty cool.

Yawne Zize’ite · November 21, 2011, 02:04:03 AM

Quote from: `Eylan Ayfalulukanä on November 12, 2011, 02:29:01 AM
Quote from: Ningey on November 11, 2011, 08:09:45 AM
Quote from: `Eylan Ayfalulukanä on November 10, 2011, 03:19:13 PM

In a lot of ways, an ISO code makes Na'vi an officially recognized language, a distinction (at least for conlangs) that is shared (as far as I know) only with Esperanto and Klingon.

Add Sindarin and Quenya (yes, those two have a code, too!), that would already make five once Na'vi gets its ISO code...

Those were the other languages I thought might have an ISO code, but I failed to follow up on verifying that (I also suspected Lojban has a code, but I checked that and, apparently, it does not.) Do you happen to know when they were granted ISO codes?

But you are right. That is still a very small family considering how many languages (and conlangs) there are.

There are a surprisingly large number of conlangs with codes, a significant majority of which are auxlangs. SIL maintains a list at http://www.sil.org/iso639-3/codes.asp?order=lang_type&letter=c. Some of those auxlangs are very obscure. This is a good sign for us, since SIL's attitude towards registering conlangs seems to be "why not" instead of, as I feared, "why bother?"

To me, the main advantage is that Na'vi will be an Official Language as far as the Internet is concerned, and can be fed into any language-marking system on an equal basis with Egyptian Arabic and Taiwanese.

(The really prestigious languages have two-letter ISO 693-1 codes; those require a good case, since they're limited.)

`Eylan Ayfalulukanä · November 21, 2011, 04:06:06 PM

Looking at that table makes me realize that long-term, we need to work to have Na'vi recognized with an ISO 639-2 code. And the Dothraki folks need to get their ISO 639-3 code, although that language isn't taking off like Na'vi did.

Tsmuktengan · November 22, 2011, 06:35:26 AM

Quote from: `Eylan Ayfalulukanä on November 21, 2011, 04:06:06 PM
Looking at that table makes me realize that long-term, we need to work to have Na'vi recognized with an ISO 639-2 code. And the Dothraki folks need to get their ISO 639-3 code, although that language isn't taking off like Na'vi did.

Having one day Na'vi recognized in ISO 639-2 means that the Na'vi should continue it's development and get more and more vocabulary, in order to start building translation projects for the language to be used by us and others. There are many popular open source projects that only wait some translation teams to translate one program into a language. This iso code does require a certain popularity and development rate. I think this is a great aim for us and Na'vi.

`Eylan Ayfalulukanä · November 22, 2011, 03:04:25 PM

Quote from: Tsmuktengan on November 22, 2011, 06:35:26 AM
Having one day Na'vi recognized in ISO 639-2 means that the Na'vi should continue it's development and get more and more vocabulary, in order to start building translation projects for the language to be used by us and others. There are many popular open source projects that only wait some translation teams to translate one program into a language. This iso code does require a certain popularity and development rate. I think this is a great aim for us and Na'vi.

I agree with you that this is not going to happen without a lot more development work. Even Klingon, popular as it is, has not progressed beyond 639-2. It is interesting to note that some of the older, classic, non-Esperanto conlangs have ISO 639-1 codes. There are probably historic reasons for this.

Yawne Zize’ite · November 22, 2011, 07:35:39 PM

Quote from: `Eylan Ayfalulukanä on November 22, 2011, 03:04:25 PMI agree with you that this is not going to happen without a lot more development work. Even Klingon, popular as it is, has not progressed beyond 639-2. It is interesting to note that some of the older, classic, non-Esperanto conlangs have ISO 639-1 codes. There are probably historic reasons for this.

Precisely. Interlingua is still a major conlang and a short-lived scientific journal was published in Interlingua. It still has literary journals. I don't know why Interlingue got an ISO 639-1 code; perhaps someone confused it with Interlingua. Ido only got its ISO 639-1 code in the early 2000s, presumably because of its historical importance, but an unbroken history helps. Volapük has a code for pure historical importance, although it's making a small comeback and also has an unbroken history.

`Eylan Ayfalulukanä · November 22, 2011, 09:20:59 PM

Another intriguing language that will probably eventually get an ISO 639-1 is Lojban.

And considering their popularity among Tolkien fans, I am surprised that Sindiran and Quenya have not advanced beyond the ISO 639-3 stage.

Eltu Lefngap Makto · January 05, 2012, 06:40:30 AM

Soooo, when will we get this officially? How does this work?

http://www.sil.org/ISO639-3/codes.asp?order=639_3&letter=n

Tirea Aean · January 05, 2012, 07:12:12 AM

afaik the request was sent in... I don't know how it works, but I would have expected it to work out and be on that list by now.

Seze · January 05, 2012, 12:26:56 PM

I did some digging and found this. The deadline for people to submit comments on the proposed changes was December 15th, 2011. Since that deadline has passed I'd guess it to take a month or two before the proposed changes are made to the official list.

Taronyu · January 10, 2012, 03:00:39 AM

It'll probably come up on the LINGUIST email list when it happens, and I'll certainly see that when it does.

Ningey · January 10, 2012, 11:47:33 AM

Quote from: `Eylan Ayfalulukanä on November 12, 2011, 02:29:01 AM
Quote from: Ningey on November 11, 2011, 08:09:45 AM
Quote from: `Eylan Ayfalulukanä on November 10, 2011, 03:19:13 PM

In a lot of ways, an ISO code makes Na'vi an officially recognized language, a distinction (at least for conlangs) that is shared (as far as I know) only with Esperanto and Klingon.

Add Sindarin and Quenya (yes, those two have a code, too!), that would already make five once Na'vi gets its ISO code...

Those were the other languages I thought might have an ISO code, but I failed to follow up on verifying that (I also suspected Lojban has a code, but I checked that and, apparently, it does not.) Do you happen to know when they were granted ISO codes?

But you are right. That is still a very small family considering how many languages (and conlangs) there are.

Merely an insert, but anyway...

Today I have done a bit more researching on the qya/sjn thing (Quenya and Sindarin, that is), and I found something interesting. The initial idea of having an ISO 639-3 code assigned to these two dates back to Aug 22, 2003. See here for the original suggestion - but there is a chance that the request has indeed been placed for the assignment cycle of 2003 - if not, most likely 2004.
Unfortunately the SIL doesn't have those records available any more so I would have to do some more investigation to find out more.

Human No More · January 11, 2012, 05:39:25 PM

Quote from: Taronyu on January 10, 2012, 03:00:39 AM
It'll probably come up on the LINGUIST email list when it happens, and I'll certainly see that when it does.

Make sure to let us know

Tsmuktengan · February 10, 2012, 10:28:56 PM

My apologies for those that this news would sadden. Yet, nothing is lost, there is a great margin of progression we can aim to and gain).

http://na.learnnavi.org/?p=236

Ftiafpi · February 10, 2012, 11:16:08 PM

No easy way to appeal this, huh? The literature aspect is probably right but I know I've personally used Na'vi to transcend language barriers and I'm sure other people have as well.

`Eylan Ayfalulukanä · February 11, 2012, 03:36:27 AM

I think they want to see the language useable every day. But I bet that a number of the other obscure conlangs that have ISO codes do not. How about Quenya ans Sindiran? They don't really have bodies of literature, and they have vocabularies sparser than Na'vi.

The literature will come in time. But it could be a long time. The Bible-in-Na'vi project, for instance, will probably not show substantial progress (read: most of the Bible translated) for a decade, unless a lot of things accelerate.

So yes, this is fmawn akawng and keftxoa fi'u nìtxan lu ni'aw. (See, I just communicated!)

Ningey · February 11, 2012, 10:16:16 AM

Tsahey!

Fpìl oel futa awnga fìtìkangkemit zene spivule set, slä ayoeng zenke win säpi - awngeyä lì'fya lìyevu sìltsan...
Irayo atxan, ma Karyu Pawl lì'fyateri leNa'vi!

The point is that all this should deliver quality instead of quantity - I guess nobody here would want to see this project ruined, but haste would just cause this to happen.
Anyway, I wish I could provide some literature nìNa'vi as well, but I fear I would still be too limited on this matter. However, anyone who has the option (i. e. sufficient knowledge of the language) could start a project - maybe we could push things this way...

So I somehow cannot fathom why Quenya and Sindarin got an ISO code and Na'vi not - except that SIL's assignment policy has changed in this matter from then till now. Maybe we should inquire how this discrepancy could be explained to get answers to some questions that inevitably arise.