Na'vi Vocabulary Committee

[Ikran Ahiyìk]

Thanks. I am looking forward in it.

[Kamean]

Interesting information. One week - this is close.
Irayo teri fìfmawn.

[`Eylan Ayfalulukanä]

Conversely, can people contribute interesting 'word shapes', that the committee can then use for a forthcoming word?

[Ikran Ahiyìk]

It seems can..



LEP paused for a long while, I think some words in it are request at that time but now maybe not.
What about this way: keep on submitting the (A-list?) words, but take this as a "background work", means do those when we have time. Work on new suggestions first. People can also suggest the words already exist in the list, with reasons and examples etc. to make that word as a requesting new word.. (not recommand to look on the list)

[Prrton]

It seems can..



LEP paused for a long while, I think some words in it are request at that time but now maybe not.
What about this way: keep on submitting the (A-list?) words, but take this as a "background work", means do those when we have time. Work on new suggestions first. People can also suggest the words already exist in the list, with reasons and examples etc. to make that word as a requesting new word.. (not recommand to look on the list)

I understand this sentiment about keeping things relevant for now, but I have to point out that a tremendous amount of work went into the LEP in terms of coming up with words that are missing that will really help the language FUNCTION better, broadly, for everyone. The *pause* did not happen due to the fact that the terms in it aren't relevant. That's 100% a function of K. Pawl's not having gotten to responding to it and ZERO reflection on the content of it. I think that the first priority of this Language Committee should be to determine what things are most relevant to:

A) Filling in the holes that will make the language FUNCTION optimally. There are still some nuts and bolts that are missing.
B) Making the vocabulary most RELEVANT for the folks that are spending the most time on it in the community now.

I agree with you that it is a fine idea for people to submit words without looking specifically at the LEP. However, I believe it will be most helpful if those words are aimed at BROAD APPLICABILITY over NARROW FOCUS. (The exception would be a targeted project involving a large number of people that is energizing the community that requires some rather obscure vocabulary, etc.) If people are requesting LEP Group A words that are "broadly functional", then that's even more reason to prioritize sending them to K. Pawl more quickly, IMO.

Tsm. Wm. has pointed out separately that we are still missing clarity around the the concept of "already". At points in the past, people have wanted to know how to translate "paradise". I believe that "already" is much more important than "paradise" (and Paul would likely not approve anything about "paradise" anyway since we don't know what that *means* to the Na'vi).

So, in a nutshell, I think the LEP is still VERY relevant and that it has a "timeless" quality about it overall due to the hard work that went into it at the time. I didn't do that work, but I really really appreciate it.

EDIT: LEP Group A relevant vocabulary (clarifications) that have come into common use SINCE the LEP:

'eykefu / speykaw  ::  persuade, convince
'eylan, kxutu  ::  friend, enemy
[X-krr]  ::  for (span of time)
eltur tìtxen si  ::  interesting, interest
fìfne- fayfne-  / tsafne- tsayfne-  ::  this kind of / that kind of
flew  ::  throat (n)
fnawe'  ::  cowardly, coward
fne-  fnay- (fn-)  ::  a kind of / kinds of
fne-/fnel  ::  kind, type, species (n)
fnel  ::  kind (n), sort (n), type
fnelo  ::  some kind / any kind
frìp  ::  bite
ftem  ::  Ex 2. A hexapede crossed my territory today.
ftxìlor  ::  tasty, delicious
ftxìvä'  ::  tastless, yucky
fyeyntu  ::  adult person
hahaw  ::  go to bed, go to sleep, fall asleep
hawl  ::  plan to
hawl  ::  plan
hawngkrr, lehawngkrr  ::  late
hek  ::  curious (to be curious/unusual / to "stand out")
heyn  ::  sit
ìpxa  ::  fern, frond
kan  ::  intend
käteng  ::  associate with, hang out with
ke mllte hu [X] ::  disagree (with)
kea tìkin, ke pxan, etc.  ::  you're welcome
kllvawm  ::  brown
koren  ::  law
ku'up  ::  heavy
kxayl  ::  high
lawk  ::  narrate
lesar  ::  useful
letrrtrr  ::  normal, ordinary, expected, typical
lenomum  ::  curious (eliciting curiosity) (corrected from typo «lewnomum»)
muntxatan  ::  husband
muntxate  ::  wife
muntxatu  ::  mate, spouse
neykekx  ::  start a fire, ignite
ngäzìk  ::  difficult
nì'i'a  ::  it's about time
nitram  ::  happy
nìtrrtrr  ::  typically, ordinarily, on average
oeru/X-ur/ru ke tsranten  ::  not important (to me/someone)
oeru/X-ur/ru tsranten  ::  important (to me/someone), care about...
ohakx  ::  hungry
pe'un  ::  come to decision
pefnel / fnepe  ::  what kind
ram, ramtsyìp  ::  hill, mountain, peak
reng  ::  shallow
rewon  ::  morning
rìk  ::  leaf, canopy
rina'  ::  nut
sa'sem  ::  parent(s)
slä, ki  ::  the two types of "but"
smar  ::  prey, game, object of the hunt
sno, sneya  ::  self, one's own
soaia, olo'  ::  family, clan, tribe, nation
srese'a  ::  foresee, predict
starsìm  ::  gather, collect
stxeli  ::  a present / gift
sunu  ::  like
sutx  ::  track, trail, spoor
syay; syayvi  ::  luck, chance
syo  ::  light (not heavy)
tì'i'a  ::  end, terminal point
tìkenong / natkenong  ::  example, for instance
tìm  ::  low
tìohakx  ::  hunger
Tolel!/Rolun!  ::  Eureka!
tskexekeng  ::  practice (n)
tskexekeng si  ::  practice (v)
tstunwi  ::  kind (adj)
tswa'  ::  forget
tswin  ::  queue
txärem  ::  bone, skeleton
txintìn  ::  job
txukx  ::  deep
uk  ::  shadow, shade
ultxarun  ::  Ex 3. I hope our paths cross again.
ve'kì  ::  hate
vewng  ::  handle, deal with, attend to
vewng  ::  worry about, look after, take care of
wew  ::  cold
weyn  ::  draw, paint (art)
wou  ::  impressive
wou  ::  fascinate/fascinating/to interest emotionally/be cool
X ___-ur za'u nì'eng  ::  Share X in common (due to similarities)
X-ur tìyawr, tìkxey  ::  be right, be wrong
yaymak  ::  ignorant, foolish
ye'krr, leye'krr  ::  early
zerok  ::  remember
zeyko  ::  repair, mend, fix
zìsìkrr  ::  season
zo, zoslu, zeyko  ::  heal (v intr. (and transitive))
-o  ::  some (amount)

Most of these are pretty relevant/important to daily life (both on Pandora and 'Rrta, tì'efumì oeyä). That doesn't mean that every one of these was revealed/emerged precisely because it was on the the LEP Group A list, but it does point towards it being a GOOD list of words to have.

[wm.annis]

Conversely, can people contribute interesting 'word shapes', that the committee can then use for a forthcoming word?

One could, but it's not really needed.  Frommer has sent a document for the committee which has a list of all legal syllables in the language (which is in the 8000 range, as I recall).

[Tirea Aean]

Conversely, can people contribute interesting 'word shapes', that the committee can then use for a forthcoming word?

One could, but it's not really needed.  Frommer has sent a document for the committee which has a list of all legal syllables in the language (which is in the 8000 range, as I recall).

not to mention all the legal combinations of such syllables working together to make multisyllable words.

[`Eylan Ayfalulukanä]

Prrton, I seem to remember a lot of those words predate the LEP (One that sticks out (of many) is frìp). I also notice that a few of those words (hawl being one of them) have different definitions than are listed in the dictionary. Would this list perhaps be a list of all the new words added since the original words that existed 'at the time of the first songs'?

Second, is that list of legal syllables ever going to be available to people who are working to create original word ideas?

I will also support the validity of the LEP. The work that came out of that is some of the most important work the community has done since its inception. What has come of that project will be helping us all for a long time to come.

[Kamean]

Second, is that list of legal syllables ever going to be available to people who are working to create original word ideas?

If this list going to be available to all, who have original word ideas, it would be wery helpful.

Spoiler

In Group A i find small error - here is lewnomum instead lenomum.

[Prrton]

Prrton, I seem to remember a lot of those words predate the LEP (One that sticks out (of many) is frìp). I also notice that a few of those words (hawl being one of them) have different definitions than are listed in the dictionary. Would this list perhaps be a list of all the new words added since the original words that existed 'at the time of the first songs'?

Second, is that list of legal syllables ever going to be available to people who are working to create original word ideas?

I will also support the validity of the LEP. The work that came out of that is some of the most important work the community has done since its inception. What has come of that project will be helping us all for a long time to come.

The First Songs are from a pretty long time ago. ;-) I have no idea how to relate this list to that one, which would have to be LARGELY theoretical.

Some of the words have been clarified for parts of speech or other factors. Hawl is just an extension of a semantic range. "Preparation" and "Planning" are pretty similar.

The legal syllable list will be publicly available. Yes.

[Prrton]

Second, is that list of legal syllables ever going to be available to people who are working to create original word ideas?

If this list going to be available to all, who have original word ideas, it would be wery helpful.

Spoiler

In Group A i find small error - here is lewnomum instead lenomum.

Thanks. I'll correct it.

[Tirea Aean]

Second, is that list of legal syllables ever going to be available to people who are working to create original word ideas?

If this list going to be available to all, who have original word ideas, it would be wery helpful.

Spoiler

In Group A i find small error - here is lewnomum instead lenomum.

I imagine that's how it will be done. it I will be assumed that the suggestors will know Na'viyä phonetic rules. but then again there will be editors to make sure no rules get broken.

[Kamean]

The legal syllable list will be publicly available. Yes.

Irayo nìtxan ma Prrton!

I will be assumed that the suggestors will know Na'viyä phonetic rules.

Yes, I know Na'vi phonetics. But if you have more examples of new, unusual syllables, you may create new words easyer. But it only my opinion.

[Prrton]

The legal syllable list will be publicly available. Yes.

Irayo nìtxan ma Prrton!

I will be assumed that the suggestors will know Na'viyä phonetic rules.

Yes, I know Na'vi phonetics. But if you have more examples of new, unusual sillables, you may create new words easyer. But it only my opinion.

It is a fascinating exercise to just look through all of the sound combinations. It can be very inspiring and sometimes surprising. Some of them just LOOK like they might have a specific Na'vi meaning. I haven't done that in months and months, but it is fun.

[Kamean]

The list of syllables may put in downloads section on main page. Nìmun, oeyä säfpil nì'aw.

[Prrton]

The list of syllables may put in downloads section on main page. Nìmun, oeyä säfpil nì'aw.

I think Tsm. Wm. and/or Markì and/or Skxawng is going to associate it with the new project pages for the Language Committee. It's coming...

[Kamean]

Irayo nìtxan ma smukan.

[`Eylan Ayfalulukanä]

fmawn asìltsan nang That should get some creative juices flowing. Still, though, I will probably leave most word creation to those who have a 'bigger vision of things' than I do. It will be enough to just be suggesting words we need.

Will the Q list be folded into this project as well?

Txoa lu oeru if 'time of the first songs' was misunderstood. This was meant to mean-- more or less-- December 18th 2009, which was kind of the beginning for most of us. (I do know that there were a few people who had 'latched on to Na`vi' just before the movie's release.)

[Ikran Ahiyìk]

Conversely, can people contribute interesting 'word shapes', that the committee can then use for a forthcoming word?

One could, but it's not really needed.  Frommer has sent a document for the committee which has a list of all legal syllables in the language (which is in the 8000 range, as I recall).

Pseudo-vowel syllables
Initial - single 20 + cluster 3*13 = 59
Vowel - 2
      59 * 2 = 118

Normal syllables
Initial - single 20 + cluster 3*13 + nothing 1 = 60
Vowel - normal 7 + diphthong 4 = 11
Final - normal 12 + nothing 1 = 13
      60 * 11 * 13 = 8580

            118 + 8580 = 8698


This page states all the rules...

It seems can..



LEP paused for a long while, I think some words in it are request at that time but now maybe not.
What about this way: keep on submitting the (A-list?) words, but take this as a "background work", means do those when we have time. Work on new suggestions first. People can also suggest the words already exist in the list, with reasons and examples etc. to make that word as a requesting new word.. (not recommand to look on the list)

I understand this sentiment about keeping things relevant for now, but I have to point out that a tremendous amount of work went into the LEP in terms of coming up with words that are missing that will really help the language FUNCTION better, broadly, for everyone. The *pause* did not happen due to the fact that the terms in it aren't relevant. That's 100% a function of K. Pawl's not having gotten to responding to it and ZERO reflection on the content of it. I think that the first priority of this Language Committee should be to determine what things are most relevant to:

A) Filling in the holes that will make the language FUNCTION optimally. There are still some nuts and bolts that are missing.
B) Making the vocabulary most RELEVANT for the folks that are spending the most time on it in the community now.

I agree with you that it is a fine idea for people to submit words without looking specifically at the LEP. However, I believe it will be most helpful if those words are aimed at BROAD APPLICABILITY over NARROW FOCUS. (The exception would be a targeted project involving a large number of people that is energizing the community that requires some rather obscure vocabulary, etc.) If people are requesting LEP Group A words that are "broadly functional", then that's even more reason to prioritize sending them to K. Pawl more quickly, IMO.

Tsm. Wm. has pointed out separately that we are still missing clarity around the the concept of "already". At points in the past, people have wanted to know how to translate "paradise". I believe that "already" is much more important than "paradise" (and Paul would likely not approve anything about "paradise" anyway since we don't know what that *means* to the Na'vi).

So, in a nutshell, I think the LEP is still VERY relevant and that it has a "timeless" quality about it overall due to the hard work that went into it at the time. I didn't do that work, but I really really appreciate it.

Spoiler

EDIT: LEP Group A relevant vocabulary (clarifications) that have come into common use SINCE the LEP:

'eykefu / speykaw  ::  persuade, convince
'eylan, kxutu  ::  friend, enemy
[X-krr]  ::  for (span of time)
eltur tìtxen si  ::  interesting, interest
fìfne- fayfne-  / tsafne- tsayfne-  ::  this kind of / that kind of
flew  ::  throat (n)
fnawe'  ::  cowardly, coward
fne-  fnay- (fn-)  ::  a kind of / kinds of
fne-/fnel  ::  kind, type, species (n)
fnel  ::  kind (n), sort (n), type
fnelo  ::  some kind / any kind
frìp  ::  bite
ftem  ::  Ex 2. A hexapede crossed my territory today.
ftxìlor  ::  tasty, delicious
ftxìvä'  ::  tastless, yucky
fyeyntu  ::  adult person
hahaw  ::  go to bed, go to sleep, fall asleep
hawl  ::  plan to
hawl  ::  plan
hawngkrr, lehawngkrr  ::  late
hek  ::  curious (to be curious/unusual / to "stand out")
heyn  ::  sit
ìpxa  ::  fern, frond
kan  ::  intend
käteng  ::  associate with, hang out with
ke mllte hu [X] ::  disagree (with)
kea tìkin, ke pxan, etc.  ::  you're welcome
kllvawm  ::  brown
koren  ::  law
ku'up  ::  heavy
kxayl  ::  high
lawk  ::  narrate
lesar  ::  useful
letrrtrr  ::  normal, ordinary, expected, typical
lenomum  ::  curious (eliciting curiosity) (corrected from typo «lewnomum»)
muntxatan  ::  husband
muntxate  ::  wife
muntxatu  ::  mate, spouse
neykekx  ::  start a fire, ignite
ngäzìk  ::  difficult
nì'i'a  ::  it's about time
nitram  ::  happy
nìtrrtrr  ::  typically, ordinarily, on average
oeru/X-ur/ru ke tsranten  ::  not important (to me/someone)
oeru/X-ur/ru tsranten  ::  important (to me/someone), care about...
ohakx  ::  hungry
pe'un  ::  come to decision
pefnel / fnepe  ::  what kind
ram, ramtsyìp  ::  hill, mountain, peak
reng  ::  shallow
rewon  ::  morning
rìk  ::  leaf, canopy
rina'  ::  nut
sa'sem  ::  parent(s)
slä, ki  ::  the two types of "but"
smar  ::  prey, game, object of the hunt
sno, sneya  ::  self, one's own
soaia, olo'  ::  family, clan, tribe, nation
srese'a  ::  foresee, predict
starsìm  ::  gather, collect
stxeli  ::  a present / gift
sunu  ::  like
sutx  ::  track, trail, spoor
syay; syayvi  ::  luck, chance
syo  ::  light (not heavy)
tì'i'a  ::  end, terminal point
tìkenong / natkenong  ::  example, for instance
tìm  ::  low
tìohakx  ::  hunger
Tolel!/Rolun!  ::  Eureka!
tskexekeng  ::  practice (n)
tskexekeng si  ::  practice (v)
tstunwi  ::  kind (adj)
tswa'  ::  forget
tswin  ::  queue
txärem  ::  bone, skeleton
txintìn  ::  job
txukx  ::  deep
uk  ::  shadow, shade
ultxarun  ::  Ex 3. I hope our paths cross again.
ve'kì  ::  hate
vewng  ::  handle, deal with, attend to
vewng  ::  worry about, look after, take care of
wew  ::  cold
weyn  ::  draw, paint (art)
wou  ::  impressive
wou  ::  fascinate/fascinating/to interest emotionally/be cool
X ___-ur za'u nì'eng  ::  Share X in common (due to similarities)
X-ur tìyawr, tìkxey  ::  be right, be wrong
yaymak  ::  ignorant, foolish
ye'krr, leye'krr  ::  early
zerok  ::  remember
zeyko  ::  repair, mend, fix
zìsìkrr  ::  season
zo, zoslu, zeyko  ::  heal (v intr. (and transitive))
-o  ::  some (amount)

Most of these are pretty relevant/important to daily life (both on Pandora and 'Rrta, tì'efumì oeyä). That doesn't mean that every one of these was revealed/emerged precisely because it was on the the LEP Group A list, but it does point towards it being a GOOD list of words to have.

Agree with you, that list shows to me how useful is it in fact...

Not telling to delete them... But it seems can't be completed in a very short period, there's quite a number of words.
Totally agree to the point B, that's why I suggest the thing "submit new words again even they are repeated."

For list looking, it's not forbidden, (if you like the "submit new..." thing and run it) but I not recommand people copy words from the list as suggestion,
beside this it should be done by elaborating ideas widely useful and wanted, as you said.
Take it for a look sometimes to see what word did suggest by people in the past as referance (what kind of words we need for THIS LANGUAGE?) is good.

During suggestion, I think the one suggest the word should give example in this way:
Imagine himself as one of the People, and show how he will use that idea in his daily life. He can do, see or think of and know that idea..

[Ataeghane]

Is the list of syllables already avaiable?