Author Topic: Questions/advice/help  (Read 1946 times)

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Offline Mumalian

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Questions/advice/help
« on: October 05, 2011, 12:07:12 pm »
 ???
Ok I'm not sure if I should post this here but hopefully it is the right place and if it is please don't shoot me :D
So I was wondering if anyone could help me correct these sentences. I've only spent a total of two days learning the language so I'm sure I've screwed up somewhere. Any help or advice would be greatly appreciated. Also beside each sentence I will put what I was trying to say, and excuse my limited vocabulary, I'm just trying to get simple structures down atm.

Oel ayikranit tivaron - I would hunt ikran
lu lor ayikranil - The ikran are beautiful
Layu peyä lor ikranil - his/her ikran will be beautiful
fkol tsun ayikranit tivaron - one can hunt ikran

fkol tsun ayikranit tivarängon
fkol ayikranit tsun tivarängon - one can hunt ikran (unfortunately)
fkol ayikranit tivarängon tsun

terìng oel poeru tukruti - I gave her the spear
lu peyä muntxatel a-lor taronyuti - His beautiful wife is a hunter
livu fkol sweylu txo taronyuti krr a lu pol fyeyn - One should be a hunter when they are grown up

  :-[ Hopefully i don't have too many mistakes

Offline Tirea Aean

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Re: Questions/advice/help
« Reply #1 on: October 05, 2011, 12:28:09 pm »
No worries! You are always safe posting content like this in /beginners :D

so to answer the request:

Oel ayikranit tivaron - I would hunt ikran //Good.
lu lor ayikranil - The ikran are beautiful //Close. no -ìl necessary there.
Layu peyä lor ikranil - his/her ikran will be beautiful //no -ìl necessary here, peyä should be next to ikran, one side or the other. ideally, in this case, lor is on one side of "ikran" and peyä on the other side.
fkol tsun ayikranit tivaron - one can hunt ikran //Close. no -l necessary on fko

fkol tsun ayikranit tivarängon //the subject of tsun does not get -l. the following sentences also guilty of this error. the rest is good here.
fkol ayikranit tsun tivarängon - one can hunt ikran (unfortunately) //Good.
fkol ayikranit tivarängon tsun //not good. the tsun cannot come after the action. tsun in this case must SOMEHOW come BEFORE taron. otherwise good.

terìng oel poeru tukruti - I gave her the spear //the <er> infix in tìng is not the past. the sentence is grammatically correct however your translation does not match what it says.
lu peyä muntxatel a-lor taronyuti - His beautiful wife is a hunter //Close. no -l and -t when you are equating two things by using lu. otherwise good.
livu fkol sweylu txo taronyuti krr a lu pol fyeyn - One should be a hunter when they are grown up //word order. In this case, I would put "sweylu txo" first. again, no -l and -t when using lu in this way. there are many ways to write this, but the way with minimal change to the original would be:

sweylu txo livu fko taronyu krr a lu fyeyntu.



Overall, for two days, you are doing very well!! :D Though you seem to use -l and -t regardless of transitivity. This is a common beginners mistake and is one of the only errors I see in here besides slight violations while having fun with word order. (The flexible word order is one of the best things about Na'vi! Have fun with it but stay in the bounds :D)

If any of this makes no sense, ask and I'll be glad to give more examples or clarify. OR someone else will come along before that to help out further. :)

--TA
« Last Edit: October 05, 2011, 12:40:40 pm by Tirea Aean »

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Offline Mumalian

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Re: Questions/advice/help
« Reply #2 on: October 05, 2011, 12:44:30 pm »
Thanks so much :)
I seem to be having trouble understanding when to use transitive endings and when not to >.< but that can be fixed. And I was meant to use the infix <ol> not <er> I just didn't check it before I posted it >.< Regardless thanks for the advice it really helps.

Offline Tirea Aean

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Re: Questions/advice/help
« Reply #3 on: October 05, 2011, 12:46:56 pm »
yeah, just remember that when using lu to say

X is Y

you dont use -l on X or -t on Y. ;)

Same goes with slu (become)! ;D

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Offline Mumalian

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Re: Questions/advice/help
« Reply #4 on: October 05, 2011, 12:53:50 pm »
I didn't realise 'twas so simple.  :P Thanks so much.

Offline Tirea Aean

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Re: Questions/advice/help
« Reply #5 on: October 05, 2011, 12:57:40 pm »
I didn't realise 'twas so simple.  :P Thanks so much.

as you learn, you find how so very simple and logical Na'vi is compared to many Earth languages. :)

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Offline Mumalian

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Re: Questions/advice/help
« Reply #6 on: October 05, 2011, 09:00:04 pm »
So lu is a intransitive verb? So instead of something like
lu oel ikranit
Would it be
lu oe ikran ?

Also with the subject not having the agentitive ending with tsun, is this the same with all modal verbs?

Zenke tivaron oel ikranit
or
Zenke tivaron oe ikranit

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Re: Questions/advice/help
« Reply #7 on: October 05, 2011, 09:48:01 pm »
So lu is a intransitive verb? So instead of something like
lu oel ikranit
Would it be
lu oe ikran ? //correct.

Also with the subject not having the agentitive ending with tsun, is this the same with all modal verbs?

Zenke tivaron oel ikranit //interesting word order. *
or
Zenke tivaron oe ikranit **

* According to this,

Quote from: Paul Frommer via Naviteri.org
Finally, 5 is generally judged unacceptable with oel:

5b. *New yivom oel teylut.

So

* Zenke tivaron oel ikranit is not acceptable and should be:
** Zenke tivaron oe ikranit.

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Offline Mumalian

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Re: Questions/advice/help
« Reply #8 on: October 05, 2011, 10:00:22 pm »
 :o I'm actually starting to understand something. I thought I had no chance  :)

Offline Yayo

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Re: Questions/advice/help
« Reply #9 on: October 05, 2011, 10:03:09 pm »
 ;)


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Skxaypxe: callofdoty95

Offline Tirea Aean

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Re: Questions/advice/help
« Reply #10 on: October 05, 2011, 10:12:34 pm »
:o I'm actually starting to understand something. I thought I had no chance  :)

You are a quick learner :D

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Offline Mumalian

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Re: Questions/advice/help
« Reply #11 on: October 06, 2011, 11:54:29 am »
Another day and another Na'vi session woo :D

I made some new practice sentences, hopefully I'm improving so here we go:

This one I wasn't sure which was right so I made two versions:
peyä tìrusol lrrtok seyki oeyä txe'lan
-or-
lrrtok seyki peyä tìrusolil oeyä txe'lan - Her singing made my heart smile

täpeykolarängon oelru ayikranit - I made myself hunt ikran (badthing)

lrrtok rä'ä si oeru - Don't smile at me

Another this-or-this here:
tsame'a oel ayuvanit a ayikran uvan sarmi
-or-
tsame'a oel futa ayikranil uvan sarmi ayuvanit - I saw the games that the ikran were playing

Oel ke taron ayikranit ki oe fohu uvan si - I don't hunt ikran but rather i play with them

Ke twayayon nìmun kawkrr ikran slä varmar fmivi po - the ikran will never fly again but it keeps trying

txo var nga lrrtok sivi ma oeyä 'eylan tsakrr oel ke tayìng ngaru tukruti oeyä - If you keep smiling, my friend, then I will not give you my spear.

Any help will be appreciated immensely  :D

Offline Tirea Aean

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Re: Questions/advice/help
« Reply #12 on: October 06, 2011, 01:12:18 pm »
peyä tìrusol lrrtok seyki oeyä txe'lan //tìrusol should get -l and txe'lan should get -t
-or-
lrrtok seyki peyä tìrusolil oeyä txe'lan - Her singing made my heart smile //see above

täpeykolarängon oelru ayikranit - I made myself hunt ikran (badthing) //-l-ru makes no sense. a noun cannot take two cases simultaneously. We do not know much about simultaneously using äp and eyk in a transitive verb. We have only the example,
po täpeyk(ìyev)arängon nìnäk (s/he would soon cause self to die by drinking) terkup is an intransitive verb. I'm not sure what happens exactly (if it is valid) when you use äp and eyk with transitives. It's clear what happens when you use äp OR eyk (not both) though.


lrrtok rä'ä si oeru - Don't smile at me //this is interesting. I don't really see a problem here.


tsame'a oel ayuvanit a ayikran uvan sarmi //good.
-or-
tsame'a oel futa ayikranil uvan sarmi ayuvanit - I saw the games that the ikran were playing // __ si verbs never can use -l and -t. (si verbs are always grammatically intransitive.)the first one was good.

Oel ke taron ayikranit ki oe fohu uvan si - I don't hunt ikran but rather i play with them //good. though the second oe is not necessary because you already said oel. it's not wrong as it is, but probably more common to leave out the redundant oe.

Ke twayayon nìmun kawkrr ikran slä varmar fmivi po - the ikran will never fly again but it keeps trying //this is a really great sentence. I believe it is correct, too.

txo var nga lrrtok sivi ma oeyä 'eylan tsakrr oel ke tayìng ngaru tukruti oeyä - If you keep smiling, my friend, then I will not give you my spear.[/blue]//perfect.[/blue]

Nice! :D Keepem comin this is good.

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Re: Questions/advice/help
« Reply #13 on: October 06, 2011, 01:35:48 pm »
Another day and another Na'vi session woo :D

I made some new practice sentences, hopefully I'm improving so here we go:

This one I wasn't sure which was right so I made two versions:
peyä tìrusol lrrtok seyki oeyä txe'lan //Almost. You need to denote what is causing what to smile. This could easily be "my heart causes her singing to smile". I believe you would use the dative on tìrusol to show what you are smiling at. My bad, TA has it, <eyk> makes it transitive so use -l and -ti.
-or-
lrrtok seyki peyä tìrusolil oeyä txe'lan - Her singing made my heart smile //Almost, see above. Also, I would prefer the above word order as it makes it easier for the listener to know what's doing what.

täpeykolarängon oelru ayikranit - I made myself hunt ikran (badthing) //Incorrect. Oelru doesn't work you can't have two different affixes like that. It must be either the dative -ru or the agentive -l. You would want the agentive in this case as you are the "do-er" of the verb. Nice use of the <äp><eyk> combination. Oh, and don't forget to pluralize your English translation of ikran.

lrrtok rä'ä si oeru - Don't smile at me //Correct

Another this-or-this here:
tsame'a oel ayuvanit a ayikran uvan sarmi //Correct
-or-
tsame'a oel futa ayikranil uvan sarmi ayuvanit - I saw the games that the ikran were playing //This is a another way of saying it but you got the affixes wrong for the nouns in the 2nd clause. Remember that the si-verbs are always intransitive (no agent/patient). Use the dative -ur/-ru/-r to show the object of the verb. Ayikran uvan sarmi ayuvanur.

Oel ke taron ayikranit ki oe fohu uvan si - I don't hunt ikran but rather i play with them //Correct.

Ke tswayayon nìmun kawkrr ikran slä varmar fmivi po - the ikran will never fly again but it keeps trying //Typo on tswayayon. I believe ikran should be on the other side of kawkrr but I don't believe this is a rule. Remove the past tense from var. What you've written would translate to "kept trying" not "keeps trying". Replace it with <er>. Well done on the <iv> infix in "try".

txo var nga lrrtok sivi ma oeyä 'eylan tsakrr oel ke tayìng ngaru tukruti oeyä - If you keep smiling, my friend, then I will not give you my spear. //Correct

Any help will be appreciated immensely  :D

Damn, ninja'd again. *shakes fist* :P

Offline Mumalian

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Re: Questions/advice/help
« Reply #14 on: October 06, 2011, 01:46:10 pm »
Thanks for all the help :) it's really working, I'm picking things up faster than I thought I would. Also i was always under the impression that the plural of ikran in English was ikran, like sheep or fish. Regardless, thank you.

Offline Tirea Aean

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Re: Questions/advice/help
« Reply #15 on: October 06, 2011, 02:13:15 pm »
Thanks for all the help :) it's really working, I'm picking things up faster than I thought I would. Also i was always under the impression that the plural of ikran in English was ikran, like sheep or fish. Regardless, thank you.

well actually the plural of ikran in English is Banshees. :P ;D Also, you're totally welcome :D


Damn, ninja'd again. *shakes fist* :P

HRH Ftiafpi :P
« Last Edit: October 06, 2011, 02:17:36 pm by Tirea Aean »

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Re: Questions/advice/help
« Reply #16 on: October 06, 2011, 10:07:57 pm »

Damn, ninja'd again. *shakes fist* :P

HRH Ftiafpi :P

Hell I've been super ninja'd... :P

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Offline Mumalian

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Re: Questions/advice/help
« Reply #17 on: October 09, 2011, 02:11:32 pm »
Haven't been able to get on in a couple of days :( but alas I return with more sentences and even a go at a paragraph (it may not be perfect but I need to get these structures down :S)
Anyway:
parmängkxo oe ngahu krr a zamerok tsnì vawne'kì nga oeru - I was having a conversation with you when i remembered that I hate you.

New livu nìNa'vi oe ulte tsun pivlltxe lì'fya - I want to be like the Na'vi and speak the language

lamu po tawnungzup sìn tsawl-a ioang - He was dropped onto a big animal

silpey oe tsnì fniyevan plltxe li'fya Na'viyä - I hope to be good at speaking the language of the Na'vi

lrrtok si oe krr a tse'a futa ayikranil uvan si ayuvanit - I smile when I see banshees playing games

Sweylu fwa ke fmoli tswivayon oe - I should not have tried to fly

Tamaron txonam kawng-a ikranil oeti - Last night an evil banshee hunted me

fmarmi yivur skawngil ikranit - the idiot was trying to wash the banshee

txo livu oe ikran tsakrr tswiyevayon - If I were a banshee then I could fly

Srung seyami pol oeti - (s)he made me help

eylanil oeyä tse'a oeti slä ke kame fo - My friends see me but they don't see(spiritually) see me.

lu ayawkx lehrrap-a u - cliffs are dangerous things

Tsame'a oeti fwa ayikranil a-kawng a teraron oeti - The banshees who are hunting me saw me

New tswivayon oe. Oe nìfkrr tswayon nìftxan nìltsan na tskxe. Ke new tswivayon ki oeru lu tikin a tswayon slä kayin oel syalit. Ke tswayayon kawkrr oel luke syalit. Txo tsun tsaheyl sivi oe ikran tsakrr oeyä 'eylanil alu ikran kayar oeti tswayon. Tsunpe srung sivi nga oeru tsaheyl si ikran?

I want to fly. Currently I fly as well as a rock. I don't want to fly but rather I need to fly but I will need wings. I will never fly without wings. If I can bond with an ikran my friend who is an ikran will teach me to fly. Can you help me bond with an ikran?

Any help will be greatly appreciated :)


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Re: Questions/advice/help
« Reply #18 on: October 09, 2011, 10:22:11 pm »
parmängkxo oe ngahu krr a zamerok tsnì vawne'kì nga oeru - I was having a conversation with you when i remembered that I hate you.
//use futa instead of tsnì, and use ve'kì ngati oel.

New livu nìNa'vi oe ulte tsun pivlltxe lì'fya - I want to be like the Na'vi and speak the language
//given the English translation, i would have said New livu leNa'vi ulte pivlltxe lì'fyati [leNa'vi]. edit: I was gonna write pivlltxe nìNa'vi, the preferred method to say it.

lamu po tawnungzup sìn tsawl-a ioang - He was dropped onto a big animal
//don't use passive voice in Na'vi. it's not grammatical. instead, use a fko structure:
fkol poti tolungzup sìn tsawla ioang.


silpey oe tsnì fniyevan plltxe li'fya Na'viyä - I hope to be good at speaking the language of the Na'vi
//you could just say Sìlpey oe tsnì [oel] fniyevan lì'fyati leNa'vi. same idea, different wording. otherwise, sìlpey oe tsnì [oel] fnìyevan futa plltxe nìNa'vi

lrrtok si oe krr a tse'a futa ayikranil uvan si ayuvanit - I smile when I see banshees playing games
//don't use -l and -t with ___ si verbs ;) lrrtok si oe krr a tse'a futa ayikran uvan si. (also, uvan si already means to play a game ;))

Sweylu fwa ke fmoli tswivayon oe - I should not have tried to fly
//this looks good

Tamaron txonam kawng-a ikranil oeti - Last night an evil banshee hunted me
//this looks good.

fmarmi yivur skawngil ikranit - the idiot was trying to wash the banshee
//close. it's actually fmarmi yivur skxawng ikranit.

txo livu oe ikran tsakrr tswiyevayon - If I were a banshee then I could fly
//this is grammatically correct, though the english seems to say txo livu oe ikran tsakrr tsivun tswivayon

Srung seyami pol oeti - (s)he made me help
//the only time you see -l and -t with si verbs is with <eyk>. ;) this is good, you just forgot the k in seykami.

eylanil oeyä tse'a oeti slä ke kame fo - My friends see me but they don't see(spiritually) see me.
//the ending is ìl (grave accented i, just a minor pickiness) this looks okay, I wanna say. it /might/ be possible you need an -l on fo, but you could even leave that word out.

lu ayawkx lehrrap-a u - cliffs are dangerous things
//the general plural of 'u MUST be ayu.

Tsame'a oeti fwa ayikranil a-kawng a teraron oeti - The banshees who are hunting me saw me
//The english says to me something like, tsame'a oeti ayikranìl akawng a teraron oeti


1.) New tswivayon oe. 2.) Oe nìfkrr tswayon nìftxan nìltsan na tskxe.3.) Ke new tswivayon ki oeru lu tikin a tswayon slä kayin oel syalit. 4.) Ke tswayayon kawkrr oel luke syalit.  5.) Txo tsun tsaheyl sivi oe ikran tsakrr oeyä 'eylanil alu ikran kayar oeti tswayon. 6.) Tsunpe srung sivi nga oeru tsaheyl si ikran?

I want to fly. Currently I fly as well as a rock. I don't want to fly but rather I need to fly but I will need wings. I will never fly without wings.If I can bond with an ikran my friend who is an ikran will teach me to fly. Can you help me bond with an ikran?

//1.)  good. 2.) looks good. 3.) good! 4.) oel should be oe but good otherwise. :) 5.) txo tsivun tsahey sivi oe hu ikran tsakrr oeyä 'eylan alu ikran kayar oeru fte tswivayon. 6.) tsunpe is not a word, pe goes on nouns to ask Which Noun...? here, you would say, Srake tsun srung sivi nga oeru fte tsaheyl sivi hu ikran?

Very nice attempts. Keep going! This is good practice. (even for me too ;D )
« Last Edit: October 10, 2011, 04:22:01 pm by Tirea Aean »

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Offline Mumalian

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Re: Questions/advice/help
« Reply #19 on: October 10, 2011, 01:34:30 pm »
Thanks :) ugh I'm making a lot of basic mistakes now :(

 

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