Small Talk in Na'vi

[Robert Nantangä Tirea]

Kaltxì, ma Upset.

Oel ngati tsahu tsun srung!

"ng" is pronounce by closing your throat with the back of your tongue and making the last sound of the "-ing" suffix found in English (bling, sing, ring) through you nose. It should sound like you're making the "nnnnn" sound but at higher pitch.

If you still can't get it, I would defenitely recommend you join the Skype discussion group and talk with some of the members who will be happy to pronounce it for you and use it in words as well.

Also, there's a thread titled "Na'vi Names" ( here http://forum.learnnavi.org/index.php?topic=130.0) which has many creative people and help for picking your name. You can read what other people are using and maybe get some ideas too.

Hope that helps! kìyevame - Robert

[Tanhì'itan]

question Tanhì'itan, what does fikrr mean? i cannot seem to find that word in the files from the site

I corrected it, I meant to say Fi seng = This Place or more commonly Here. Thank you for pointing out my mistake, very observative youa re.

[Atoki Atanyä]

Kaltxi, si irayo, Robert.

Not to sound like a complete skxawng, but where and how do i join the skype discussion group?

Irayo si kiyevame ulti Eywa ngahu.

Kiyevame.

[Quzac]

Kaltxi, oe lu Qu'Zac.

Oei tul fmi ti Makto oeyä Ikranti.

Hello, I am Qu'Zac

I run to try and ride my Ikran.

This is my second attempt at writing in Na'vi.

I think I have the basic idea down, but I still need some work. I know it. xP

Irayo

[kxanì tsamsiyu]

thanks for the explanation.

Start with intransitive verbs, and transitive verbs w/ just ergative and accusative first.  Worry about topic and dative once you've got down.

And if the free order is tripping you up, just pick an order for now and stick with it.  SOV is a popular choice (Subject, object, verb) or SVO to mirror english order (Subject, verb, object).

I shall get on and practice this and write something later on and hopefully that will be correct.

[Ikran]

brother and sister are both equal subjects, so i think it is fairly safe to put them both in ergative. just my 2 cents...

The thing is... we don't know.  I don't want to go making up grammar rules, however much sense they make, without something to back it up.  I could come up with a number of other ways to indicate the same thing that make just as much sense

You're right. In fact, I think this is one of the most important grammar rules we ignore at this point: how to handle cases with multiple things/persons.

Is it Oel si ngal ayfoti kame, or (Oe sì nga)-l ayfoti kame? This is not a minor issue, since it'll decide what type of language Na'vi is. Sumerian (or Basque) groups objects in a noun phrase under one case [(Oe sì nga)-l ayfoti kame], but I don't know if Frommer wants Na'vi to be so similar to these human languages.

[Doolio]

yes, i think it is best that we simply do not take anything for granted.

for instance, in serbian, which is my language, you should put all subjects into ergative. we could use either with a grain of salt and wait for official full grammar.
also, there is a third way, in some languages it would be "oe-l si nga ayofti kame".

for example, we also do not know if we should say "kaltxi, ma john, ma lertu, ma tsmukan" or "kaltxi, ma john, lertu, tsmukan"...

[Ikran]

Is Serbian an ergative language? Nisam znao! 

[Doolio]

ahhaha:)
no, but all subjects are put in the same case. that goes for every grammatical case:) so, in the latter example, john and lertu and tsmukan are all put in vocative should it be in serbian. i simply wanted to say that each word is put into case and there are no word clusters that are treated like one word. i didn't say there was an ergative case in serbian, but simply that if it were, it would apply to all subjects.

odakle si?

[Ikran]

Yes, yes, I got it, just kidding...

Nisam u Srbiji !

[Fpeioyuyä 'ite]

So, here is my attempt (feedback appreciated!):

Oe lu Delaney. Oe lu ínglísía lí'u vrrtep, slä oe pllertxe Na'vi na 'eveng.

Spoiler

Oe lu ínglísí-a lí'u vrrtep, slä oe pll<er>txe Na'vi na 'eveng.

I am Delaney. I am English-adjective word demon, but I speak-imperfective Na'vi like [a] child.
I'm Delaney. I'm an English grammar Nazi, but I speak Na'vi like a child.

I am not sure about the infix position in "plltxe," and I'd write out the fancy, grammatically-dense translation like you guys do, but I don't want to get the abbreviations wrong...

And to make myself feel like less of an 'eveng...ich spreche ein bisschen Deutsch!

[Atoki Atanyä]

Kaltxi Delaney, oel ngati kameie. Tsun oe ngahu niNa'vi pivangkxo a fi'u oeru prrte'lu.

Spoiler

Hello Delaney, I see you. It is good to be able to speak Na'vi with you.

Your grammar seems right, but i'm not a lí'u vrrtep in Na'vi, so i don't know. I also pllertxe Na'vi na 'eveng. Don't we all in comparison to Dr. Frommer?

Spoiler

Your grammar sees right, but i'm not a word demon(grammar nazi) in Na'vi, so i don't know. I also Speak Na'vi like a child

You'll find the community here is astounding, and everyone here really has a drive to speak this language and promote it. I'm sure you'll find help if you ask for it, people are more than happy to

AAAANYWAY, Welcome to the Omatikaya, and to the Na'vi

Eywa ngahu oe-yä tsmukan.

Spoiler

Eywa be with you my brother.

[omängum fra'uti]

So, here is my attempt (feedback appreciated!):

Oe lu Delaney. Oe lu ínglísía lí'u vrrtep, slä oe pllertxe Na'vi na 'eveng.

1 be delaney
This may or may not be the right way to introduce yourself, though it seems the least idiomic of the ways we'd say it in English with Na'vi words we know.

1 be english-ADJ word demon, but I speak-IPFV na'vi like child
The concept of how you were trying to say it is sound, but you did have a few little things.
1. ìnglìsì is a noun, so -a doesn't work on it.  You can make an adjective with le, which would probably convey that just fine.
le-ìnglìsì-a lì'u
2. You've got 3 nouns for lu..  "I, english-word, demon; be".  This is a good place for a topic (oe lu le-ìnglìsì-a lì'u-ri vrrtep About english words, I am a demon) or adposition (oe lu le-ìnglìsì-a lì'u-fa vrrtep I am a demon by means of (with) english words).  I'd choose the latter myself.
3. Yes, plltxe is a confusing one for infix position.  It is two syllables.  pll-txe, so the infix locations are p<1>ll-tx<2>e.  The infixes go before the vowel in the syllable, but plltxe catches you off guard with the psuedo-vowel /ll/.  That still counts, so the first position infix goes before it.
4. Imperfective case, -er-.  This is not, like many English speakers want to derive from the example, present tense.  It actually says nothing about the tense, just that it is some ongoing process without a specifically defined beginning and end.  (More or less anyway).  Present tense is, as far as we know, unmarked with infixes.  Though, in this case imperfective case is still probably ok, because it is undefined when and if you will be able to speak Na'vi better.
5. Literally, the second clause translates to "I speak the people like-child".  In a lot of languages, when you're referring to speakin a language you use the adverbial form, and Na'vi is one of those.  So speaking Na'vi is plltxe nìNa'vi.

Oe lu le-ìnglìsì-a lì'u-fa vrrtep, slä oe p<er>lltxe nì-Na'vi na(-a) 'eveng.

However, the word-demon concept is an English idiom, and any non-english speaker probably wouldn't get it.  (Come to think of it, it's so far removed from the idiom that even English speakers might not get it without being told.)

[Tsleng Atutan]

Nayìrme Na'vi tsun lu ftue ke.


I hope I said that right.

[omängum fra'uti]

Nayìrme Na'vi tsun lu ftue ke.


I hope I said that right.

Please post a translation of what you are trying to say in the beginner forum, it helps others who are trying to learn, as well as people who want to help with what you are trying to say.

That said, I can't make out what "Nayìrme" is supposed to be, the best I can come up with is n<ay>ume?  (Will learn)

Assuming that's it...
learn-PAST na'vi can be easy not
Learning Na'vi can be hard

Unfortunately, we don't know how to do compound sentences there, as that breaks down as (Noun phrase: Learning Na'vi) be not easy.

[Quzac]

Fitseng Srung ay-oe nume.

This place help us guys learn.

I was aiming for 'This place helps us all learn.'

Any help would be appreciated.

[omängum fra'uti]

Well ay-oe isn't "us" it's "us, but not you".

You're using "helps" as a verb there but srung is a noun in the vocab list.  You could re-word it to say something like "We learn with the help of this place"....

Ay-oeng-ìl nume fa fì-tseng-ä srung
1-PL-INC-ERG learn by-means-of this-place-GEN help
(Note that I also added the ergative suffix to us, since we are doing the learning.)

If you wanted "help" to be what is being done in there, you could try the noun form of "learn" as tì-nume.  The tì- prefix serves a similar role to gerunds in English, forming an abstract noun for a verb.  Then you would say it more as "This place helps our learning".

Fì-tseng-ìl srung si ay-oeng-ä tì-nume-t
this-place-ERG help do 1-PL-INC-GEN learning-ACC

[Tanhì'itan]

Well ay-oe isn't "us" it's "us, but not you".

You're using "helps" as a verb there but srung is a noun in the vocab list.  You could re-word it to say something like "We learn with the help of this place"....

Ay-oeng-ìl nume fa fì-tseng-ä srung
1-PL-INC-ERG learn by-means-of this-place-GEN help
(Note that I also added the ergative suffix to us, since we are doing the learning.)

If you wanted "help" to be what is being done in there, you could try the noun form of "learn" as tì-nume.  The tì- prefix serves a similar role to gerunds in English, forming an abstract noun for a verb.  Then you would say it more as "This place helps our learning".

Fì-tseng-ìl srung si ay-oeng-ä tì-nume-t
this-place-ERG help do 1-PL-INC-GEN learning-ACC

...The Navi nazi strikes again.

Kalxtì ma aysmukan. Oe-l nume  fa s<er>i l'iu-ti. Ngal n<ol>ume a-txan srak?
Hello my brothers and sisters. I(ACC) learn by making words(ERG). You learnt much(Yes or no)?

[omängum fra'uti]

...The Navi nazi strikes again.

Kalxtì ma aysmukan. Oe-l nume  fa s<er>i l'iu-ti. Ngal n<ol>ume a-txan srak?
Hello my brothers and sisters. I(ACC) learn by making words(ERG). You learnt much(Yes or no)?

NOTHING is safe from me.   For example..

Kalxtì ma aysmukan Hello brothers
There's no "my" (ma is just a marker that you are addressing the person you're naming).  And -an is the male suffix.
Kaltxì ma aysmuk Hello sublings
Kaltxì my aysmukan sì aysmuke Hello brothers and sisters.

I'd use create ngop rather than si.  My feeling on the latter is that it isn't literally "make" but rather a helper verb to show the action associated with a noun.  Nari si Literally make eye, but to a Na'vi look out.  On the other hand, it's possible lì'u si could convey the meaning you have in mind.  Creating words doesn't quite carry the same connotations that you have in mind though, if I see where you were trying to go.

However...

What your sentence really needs is a noun phrase (making words) but we don't know the correct grammar for noun phrases.  If I can interpret your "making words" as "speaking", you could possible to tì-plltxe for the act of speaking as a noun. Oe-l nume fa tì-plltxe.  Alternatively "created words" would be ngusop-a lì'u, using the <us> infix for the adjective form of create (created).

Finally, on your question, you're applying an adjective txan to a verb.  Nothing wrong with that, and it would mean what you say, but you don't use the a- affix when you do so, just throw the adjective in somewhere and let it do its thing.

[Tanhì'itan]

Thank you for your wise words. By make words I meant write actually.