Author Topic: Tskxekeng ~ Practice Sentences  (Read 3473 times)

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Offline Aka`ula

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Tskxekeng ~ Practice Sentences
« on: February 17, 2017, 07:54:34 pm »
(Some of the latest threads here are already old! That kind of surprised me, unless people chose another spot on the forum for practice sentences/conversation instead of this!)

I've started making some practice sentences to use some of the things I've learned for far, are these correct? When I have the next batch of sentences or something to try and translate, I will be ready with an addition to this!

(Formatted the way it is for my learning convenience in Notepad  :P)

* He is preparing a meal from this fruit

Poan tìhusawl wutso tafìmauti
  -> (Po-an tì-h<us>awl wutso ta-fì-mauti)


* The viperwolf jumped over the gap.

Nantang sampä iomektseng
  -> (Nantang s<am>pä io-mektseng)


* The warrior calls out to her family

Tsamsiyul nesyaw poe soaiati
  -> (Tsamsiyu-l ne-syaw po-e soaia-ti)


* Brave leader blankname will defeat the beast!

Tstewa eyktan blanknamel lìyätxayn ioangit!
   -> (Tstew-a eyktan blankname-l l<ìy>ätxayn ioang-it!)

Offline Tirea Aean

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Re: Tskxekeng ~ Practice Sentences
« Reply #1 on: February 17, 2017, 09:01:11 pm »
(Some of the latest threads here are already old! That kind of surprised me, unless people chose another spot on the forum for practice sentences/conversation instead of this!)

Yeah, It seems that almost constantly across time, people have generally either disregarded these child boards of /beginners, or just never saw them somehow. Usually people kinda just plopped stuff in /beginners regardless as to which child board it belongs in. I'm glad you decided to help us keep things organized by putting this in here. :D

Quote
I've started making some practice sentences to use some of the things I've learned for far,

Awesome! This is a great way to go about learning. Usage, correction, trial-and-error.. More usage. It's how I remember doing it too. :D

Quote
are these correct?

Let's find out. :)

Quote
When I have the next batch of sentences or something to try and translate, I will be ready with an addition to this!

Txantsan!  :ikran:

Quote
(Formatted the way it is for my learning convenience in Notepad  :P)

Hey, this is pretty much exactly how I would have done it in Notepad. ;D

Quote
* He is preparing a meal from this fruit

Poan tìhusawl wutso tafìmauti
  -> (Po-an tì-h<us>awl wutso ta-fì-mauti)

Notes:

So what you want is:

Poanìl herawl wutsoti ta fìmauti.
   -> (Poan-ìl h<er>awl wutso-ti ta fì-mauti.

Quote
* The viperwolf jumped over the gap.

Nantang sampä iomektseng
  -> (Nantang s<am>pä io-mektseng)

Notes:
  • Again, adp. words like mì, fa, ta, io, uo, äo, etc., are written either:
    • as a separate word before the noun
    • as a suffix attached after the noun
     
  • infixes are always inserted directly before vowels. So it's spamä (sp<am>ä)

So what you want is:

Nantang spamä io mektseng.
  -> (Nantang sp<am>ä io mektseng)

Quote
* The warrior calls out to her family

Tsamsiyul nesyaw poe soaiati
  -> (Tsamsiyu-l ne-syaw po-e soaia-ti)

Notes:
  • syaw is a vin., so -l and -t are not used.
  • ne is adp., which only work together with nouns. (and again aren't written as prefixes)
  • You may recall how syaw is used in sentences from the stock phrases for:
    • "What is your name? / How are you called?", which is: Fyape fko syaw ngaru?
    • "My name is __" / "I am called __", which is: Oeru fko syaw __
     
  • ne implies a direction, meaning "toward", "to (some direction)"; -ru ending is the other kind of "to".
  •  
  • The word for "her" as a possessive form is poeyä

So what you want is:

Tsamsiyu syaw poeyä soaiaru.
  -> (Tsamsiyu syaw poe-yä soaia-ru)

Quote
* Brave leader blankname will defeat the beast!

Tstewa eyktan blanknamel lìyätxayn ioangit!
   -> (Tstew-a eyktan blankname-l l<ìy>ätxayn ioang-it!)

This one actually looks good. :D

If anything at all, Another version would be something like:

Tstewa eyktanìl alu ____ lìyätxayn ioangit
  -> (Tstew-a eyktan-ìl alu ____ l<ìy>ätxayn ioang-it)

where the -l is instead on the title eyktan and
alu is used in a way similar to the comma in English in the following phrases:

My brother, John...
The creator of the language, Dr. Frommer...
Our Founder, Seabass...
etc.



This has been so awesome and fun. I really do miss doing this. I'm ecstatic to see people making sentences again! :D That's kinda what it's all about. The best practice in my experience is to use it by making sentences or conversation and then work with feedback.
« Last Edit: February 17, 2017, 09:18:03 pm by Tirea Aean »

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Offline Aka`ula

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Re: Tskxekeng ~ Practice Sentences
« Reply #2 on: February 18, 2017, 12:25:54 am »
Thanks for your corrections! I updated what I had with it.  :D

I've been going over the first 5 or so lessons more instead of touching the others, but have peeked at them for tips in my translation before!

This has been so awesome and fun. I really do miss doing this. I'm ecstatic to see people making sentences again! :D That's kinda what it's all about. The best practice in my experience is to use it by making sentences or conversation and then work with feedback.

 ;D, I will have more where that came from. It might be a big jump from the sentences I just had, but I am trying to translate 2-3 quotes. One is from Metro 2033, the other is a quote from Mass Effect, and I might pick a third.

edit: Bit harder than I thought, and when trying to find words without Na'Vi direct counterparts, but it's probably not the best idea to try and translate this when I'm so tired anyway  :facepalm:
« Last Edit: February 18, 2017, 01:22:05 am by Aka`ula »

Offline Sbibeau

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Re: Tskxekeng ~ Practice Sentences
« Reply #3 on: February 18, 2017, 10:43:33 am »
Thanks!

Offline Aka`ula

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Re: Tskxekeng ~ Practice Sentences
« Reply #4 on: February 18, 2017, 01:27:29 pm »
The next batch of attempts  :). Of all of them, the first was the most challenging  :palulukan:

“And then, after five minutes of silence, almost inaudibly, the old man sighed
and said, more to himself than to Artyom: ‘Lord, what a splendid world we
ruined . . .”
-Metro 2033


Tsakrr, mawkrra mrra swaw tìfnu, stum nìwotxa tìfnu, koaktu lonu syeha sì lawk
alu poan tup Artyom: 'Eywa, peu kosmana kifkeyit ayoel'


"You humans have a saying. An eye for an eye; a life for a life. Well he owes
me ten lives and I plan to collect."
-Mass Effect


Aynga alu Aysawtuteru lu san. Nari yoa nari; tìrey yoa tìrey. Pol kin tìng oeru
vomuna tìrey ulte oe stayarsìm.


"The answer is out there, Neo. It's looking for you, and it will find you if
you want it to."
-The Matrix


Tì’eyng lu käsatseng, Neo. Tsalìl ferwew ngati ulte tsalìl rayun ngati txo nga
new tsal.

Offline Vawmataw

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Re: Tskxekeng ~ Practice Sentences
« Reply #5 on: February 18, 2017, 01:46:24 pm »
Just one thing: check the grammatical nature of a word before using it. It may be a noun, a verb, an adverb, an adjective or even a contracted word. They act differently according to their grammatical class.

Quote
Tsakrr, mawkrra mrra swaw tìfnu, stum nìwotxa tìfnu, koaktu lonu syeha sì lawk
alu poan tup Artyom: 'Eywa, peu kosmana kifkeyit ayoel'
maw mrra swaw tìfnuyä -> important to mark the possession (of, 's...) with -yä or -ä.

stum nìwotxa tìfnu -> adverbs don't act like adjectives. At your level, it's normal to have a hard time translating that part.
-> stum nìfya'o aketsukstawm (almost in an unhearable way)

koaktul lonu syehat sì plltxe -> -l for the subject, -t for the DIRECT object, plltxe means ''speak'

alu poan tup Artyom: 'Eywa, peu kosmana kifkeyit ayoel' -> I'll need someone else to correct that.

Quote
Aynga alu Aysawtuteru lu san. Nari yoa nari; tìrey yoa tìrey. Pol kin tìng oeru
vomuna tìrey ulte oe stayarsìm.
Ayngaru alu Aysawtute lu lì'fyavi -> 'san' is not a noun, but a particle to mark speech with plltxe (and another verb or two). A saying is an expression, a proverb or a maxim. I'll go with lì'fyavi. It's the closest we can get. Also, I'm glad you thought about how we say ''to have''.

Nari yoa nari; tìrey yoa tìrey. -> Nice one!

Pol kin futa tìng oeru -> Just a detail: kin is not a modal verb in Na'vi, so you need ''futa'' to connect a phrase (when it's the direct object of the verb).
vomuna tìreyt ulte oel stayarsìm fot. -> tìrey is direct object of the verb tìng, so it needs the -t final. also, you can't let a transitive verb without its direct object.

Quote
Tì’eyng lu käsatseng, Neo. Tsalìl ferwew ngati ulte tsalìl rayun ngati txo nga
new tsal.
Tì’eyng lu käsatseng, ma Neo. -> When you address someone directly, the particle 'ma' must be used.

Tsal fwerew ngati ulte tsal rayun ngati txo nga nivew tsat. ->
It's important to know that Tsal means tsa'ul, which is tsa'u, but with the -l for the subject of a (transitive) verb.
tsat is the direct object.

Overall, it's quite good. Before making perfect sentences, I've made these kinds of mistakes. lol
« Last Edit: February 18, 2017, 02:26:23 pm by Vawmataw »

Offline Blue Elf

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Re: Tskxekeng ~ Practice Sentences
« Reply #6 on: February 18, 2017, 02:45:23 pm »
Well, quite good attempts. Just note, that some (many) words are not available in Na'vi, so translation is often hard, if possible. Gold rule is: translate meaning, not the words...
So, let's look at that:

The next batch of attempts  :). Of all of them, the first was the most challenging  :palulukan:

“And then, after five minutes of silence, almost inaudibly, the old man sighed
and said, more to himself than to Artyom: ‘Lord, what a splendid world we
ruined . . .”
-Metro 2033


Tsakrr, mawkrra mrra swaw tìfnu, stum nìwotxa tìfnu, koaktu lonu syeha sì lawk
alu poan tup Artyom: 'Eywa, peu kosmana kifkeyit ayoel'
Tsakrr, maw mrra swaw tìfnuä, stum nìfya'o aketsukstawm, koaktan syeha s<ol>i ulte plltxe snoru tup Artyomur san Ma Eywa, ayoel sk<ol>a'a fyolea kifkeyt fìtxan sìk.

Notes:
- mawkrra is conjuntion (connects two sentence), what is not point here - we need adposition (maw).
- English "of" expresses genitive, or possession, in Na'vi we use genitive suffix -yä (after a, ä ,e, i, ì) or -ä (after all other letters) for this usage. so "5 minutes of silence" is "mrra swaw tifnuä"
- nearly inaudibly - we have stawm for "hear" and there are prefixes tsuk- and ketsuk- to express, that action done by verb is possible or impossible (so ketsukstawm could be "unhearable"). These prefixes turn verb into adjective. And we need to create adverb, what is done using nì- prefix, but I'm not sure how productive it is. For sure nìfya'o a- + adjective is productive (you are free to use it anytime with any adjective), so I used it this way
- koaktu is fine (old person), if you want to say "old man", koaktan is more precise.
- syeha si is breathe, but it is the best what we have now
- plltxe snoru tup Artyomur - sno is pronoun reffering to the same person who performs action, what fits here - he said/spoke to himself rather than to Artyom
- Ma Eywa - when addressing someone, ma is added

Quote
"You humans have a saying. An eye for an eye; a life for a life. Well he owes me ten lives and I plan to collect."
-Mass Effect


Aynga alu Aysawtuteru lu san. Nari yoa nari; tìrey yoa tìrey. Pol kin tìng oeru
vomuna tìrey ulte oe stayarsìm.
Either use lì'fyavi as Vawmataw offered, or:
Aynga alu sawtute plltxe san Nari yoa nari; tìrey yoa tìrey sìk. Po zene tivìng oer vomuna tìreyt ulte oel stayarsìm (tsat).

Notes:
We do not have word for "owe", so I used: He must give me ten lives.....
If noun ends with -ey, patientive case suffix is -t (not -ti, see Naviteri for explanation). And why I added -l to oe? Because there's unspoken subject tsat (I will gather (them)). Unspoken subject still requires correct case ending.

Quote
"The answer is out there, Neo. It's looking for you, and it will find you if you want it to."
-The Matrix


Tì’eyng lu käsatseng, Neo. Tsalìl ferwew ngati ulte tsalìl rayun ngati txo nga
new tsal.
either
Tì’eyngìl tok tsatsenget wrrpa, ma Neo. Tsal fw<er>ew ngati ulte rayun ngati txo ngal new (tsat).
or
Tì’eyng fkeytok käsatseng, ...

Notes:
lu is not used in meaning of "to be somewhere, to occupy some place". For this is used tok. So you can say "Answer occupies that place outside" or "Answer exists out there".
As you addressing Neo, ma must be added.
Tsal itself already contains -l suffix, so -ìl is not added. It is shortened version of tsa'ul (that thing + -l) > tsal
Infixes are put in front of vowels, not consonants.
New is marked as transitive verb, so it requires -l and -t/-ti for subject and object. And object can be unspoken to be shorter.

I hope my answer can be understand - ask, if something is not clear.
Oe lu skxawng skxakep. Slä oe nerume mi.
"Oe tasyätxaw ulte koren za'u oehu" (Limonádový Joe)


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Re: Tskxekeng ~ Practice Sentences
« Reply #7 on: February 18, 2017, 04:55:06 pm »
in to say exactly all of what Blue Elf just said. I wasn't gonna be able to get to this with such a reply for another hour.

:)

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Offline Aka`ula

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Re: Tskxekeng ~ Practice Sentences
« Reply #8 on: February 22, 2017, 12:19:39 am »
Oe irayo seiyi frapoyä notes and corrections! As I promised before, I have more practice sentences for any who want to review them  :)

* Those (two) green stingbats love to fly high

eana tsameritiru sunu kxayla tswayon
   -> eana tsame+riti-ru sunu kxayl-a tswayon


* Would you like to ride with me?

Ngaru sunu mìyakto hu oe srak?
   ->Nga-ru sunu m<ìy>akto hu oe srak?


* Who here will challenge me in battle!?

Pesu fitseng saya oe mì tsam!?
   -> Pesu fitseng s<ay>a oe mì tsam!?


* This part of the land is one I have never been to before

Oel kawkrr fìatxkxeti samop
   -> Oe-l kawkrr fì-atxkxe-ti s<am>op

Offline Plumps

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Re: Tskxekeng ~ Practice Sentences
« Reply #9 on: February 22, 2017, 04:04:27 am »
Kaltxì ma Aka`ula

impressive how enthusiastic you go about it :) Love it :)

Here are my suggestions.

* Those (two) green stingbats love to fly high

eana tsameritiru sunu kxayla tswayon
   -> eana tsame+riti-ru sunu kxayl-a tswayon

sunu describes nouns or noun phrases. So you can say sunu tsameritiru tìtswusayon ≈ they like (the act of) flying
But if you have a whole sentence/action that is being liked, sunu needs something to hold on to ;) that is fwa

eana tsameritiru sunu fwa tswayon nìkxayl

nìkxayl because you describe the action further, that’s an adverb, lit. fly highly. I don’t know why English doesn’t do it in this instance :-\

* Would you like to ride with me?

Ngaru sunu mìyakto hu oe srak?
   ->Nga-ru sunu m<ìy>akto hu oe srak?

Same with this one …

ngaru sunu fwa makto hu oe srak?

Otherwise, yeio’:D

* Who here will challenge me in battle!?

Pesu fitseng saya oe mì tsam!?
   -> Pesu fitseng s<ay>a oe mì tsam!?

That’s a bit tricky and I would have to think more on that. Maybe somebody else has a bright idea ;)
My first thought was, that might be too literal …

* This part of the land is one I have never been to before

Oel kawkrr fìatxkxeti samop
   -> Oe-l kawkrr fì-atxkxe-ti s<am>op

Only one tiny addition. If you use words like kawkrr, kawtseng, kawtu etc. the verb needs to be negated as well. So it’s

oel kawkrr fìatxkxeti ke famrrfen

I’d use frrfen ‘visit’ to retain your L and T endings. If you want to go for sop, notice that this is a verb that doesn’t call for the L and T endings. You travel to a place: oe kawkrr ne fìatxkxe ke samop

Hope that helps. If anything is unclear just keep asking :D

Offline Blue Elf

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Re: Tskxekeng ~ Practice Sentences
« Reply #10 on: February 22, 2017, 02:17:53 pm »
* Who here will challenge me in battle!?

Pesu fitseng saya oe mì tsam!?
   -> Pesu fitseng s<ay>a oe mì tsam!?

That’s a bit tricky and I would have to think more on that. Maybe somebody else has a bright idea ;)
My first thought was, that might be too literal …

IMO, version, which could be correct: Pesu fìtsenge saya oeru mì sam is too literal, so I'd reword it a little:

Pesu new wivem oewä? Pesu saya? Who wants to fight against me? Who will rise the challenge?

some notes:
mì+ is adposition, which causes so called lenition (it is marked by + sign in the dictionary). It means, that some letters change into different letters:
t->s, ts->s, k->h, kx->k, px->p,  tx->t, '->disappears, p->f
wä - is adposition, and all these can be written in front of (pro)noun (separated by space as usual), or attached at the end of (pro)noun with no space. I've select second option.
Oe lu skxawng skxakep. Slä oe nerume mi.
"Oe tasyätxaw ulte koren za'u oehu" (Limonádový Joe)


Offline Blue Elf

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Re: Tskxekeng ~ Practice Sentences
« Reply #11 on: February 22, 2017, 02:22:35 pm »
* Would you like to ride with me?

Ngaru sunu mìyakto hu oe srak?
   ->Nga-ru sunu m<ìy>akto hu oe srak?

Same with this one …

ngaru sunu fwa makto hu oe srak?

Otherwise, yeio’:D
IMHO there's possible another translation:
Srake nga nivew mivakto oehu?
Original sentence in English seems to be ambiguous: Would it be pleasant for you to ride with me? X  Would you want to ride with me?
Oe lu skxawng skxakep. Slä oe nerume mi.
"Oe tasyätxaw ulte koren za'u oehu" (Limonádový Joe)


Offline Aka`ula

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Re: Tskxekeng ~ Practice Sentences
« Reply #12 on: February 23, 2017, 12:04:59 am »
Kaltxì ma Aka`ula

impressive how enthusiastic you go about it :) Love it :)

Here are my suggestions.

- - - - - - -

Hope that helps. If anything is unclear just keep asking :D


Irayo ma Plumps! I want to help this community reflourish  :toruk: :toruk: :toruk: and be there when the activity spikes from the next movie, and maybe by that time, be able to actively help others too!


IMO, version, which could be correct: Pesu fìtsenge saya oeru mì sam is too literal, so I'd reword it a little:


Irayo for more corrections and opinions as well ma Blue Elf, many unique thoughts provide rich variety.



I plan to keep doing semi-regular sentence posts  8), and if I start getting simpler ones more correct, then more advanced sentences or larger, like my quote attempts.

What have you struggled to be able to interpret in Na'vi? And would you like a quote like I did to challenge yourselves ( :palulukan:) ?

 

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