Author Topic: Word Football Game  (Read 22432 times)

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Offline Blue Elf

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Re: Word Football Game
« Reply #180 on: April 15, 2011, 06:37:17 am »
Kem ke zene mivunge syayvit frakrr, slä ke lu syayvi luke kem.
an action doesn't have to always bring luck, but there is no luck without an action.
Fully correct, original quote is: Action may not always bring happiness; but there is no happiness without action.

Quote
Nawma txe'lan lu useyka tìtsun mì hem. Nawma re'o mì sìkangkem lu fko.
the great heart is the leading ability in actions. great head in work is one.

couldn't understand the second sentence in the second quote. also in the first sentence in the same quote I'm uncomfortable with useyka tìtsun.
First sentence is nearly correctly translated - no plural at the end (lenition occurs with mì-, but it doesn't mean plural).
I've selected unusual word order in second sentence to follow original text (I'm testing what Na'vi withstands :) - oeru hìtxoa). More correct should be:
Fko lu nawma re'o mì sìkangkem.

Original quote: In action a great heart is the chief qualification. In work, a great head.
If you have better translation, post it to compare.
« Last Edit: April 15, 2011, 07:37:12 am by Blue Elf »
Oe lu skxawng skxakep. Slä oe nerume mi.
"Oe tasyätxaw ulte koren za'u oehu" (Limonádový Joe)


Offline Tswusayona Tsamsiyu

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Re: Word Football Game
« Reply #181 on: April 15, 2011, 07:23:17 am »
Quote
Fully correct, original quote is: Action may not always bring happiness; but there is no happiness without action.
if that's the original I would translate "happiness" as tìnitram.

Quote
First sentence is nearly correctly translated - no plural at the end (lenition occurs with mì-, but it doesn't mean plural).
I know. just seemed better for the context. mì hem could be both "in action" and "in actions".

Quote
Original quote: In action a great heart is the chief qualification. In work, a great head.
If you have better translation, post it to compare.
here the topical should be used and also "-ing" form of noun (tì-...<us>...).
kemìri sweylu txo lu nawma txe'lan. tìkangkemìri, nawma eltu.
« Last Edit: April 15, 2011, 07:54:34 am by Tswusayona Tsamsiyu »
Nivume Na'vit, fpivìl nìNa'vi, kivame na Na'vi.....
oer fko syaw tswusayona tsamsiyu

Offline 'Oma Tirea

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Re: Word Football Game
« Reply #182 on: April 15, 2011, 07:34:41 am »
Quote
First sentence is nearly correctly translated - no plural at the end (lenition occurs with mì-, but it doesn't mean plural).
I know. just seemed better for the context. mì hem could be both "in action" and "in actions".

However, technically speaking, the singular should be implied when in the presence of a leniting adposition, and when in doubt, look for the ay+ ;)

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Offline Sireayä mokri

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Re: Word Football Game
« Reply #183 on: April 15, 2011, 07:40:41 am »
kem tìsusiri ... tìkangkem tìsusiri

Such construction is actually incorrect. To form a gerund out of si verb, you need to drop "si" part (e.g. pamrel si > pamrel — writing). Tìsusi is not legal.
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Offline Tswusayona Tsamsiyu

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Re: Word Football Game
« Reply #184 on: April 15, 2011, 07:45:08 am »
so kusem and tìnusangkem?
Nivume Na'vit, fpivìl nìNa'vi, kivame na Na'vi.....
oer fko syaw tswusayona tsamsiyu

Offline Sireayä mokri

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Re: Word Football Game
« Reply #185 on: April 15, 2011, 07:49:20 am »
No, infixes are used with verbs only, so there's no need in them here. Just kemìri and tìkangkemìri.
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Offline Tswusayona Tsamsiyu

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Re: Word Football Game
« Reply #186 on: April 15, 2011, 07:54:01 am »
fine, corrected.
Nivume Na'vit, fpivìl nìNa'vi, kivame na Na'vi.....
oer fko syaw tswusayona tsamsiyu

Offline Sireayä mokri

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Re: Word Football Game
« Reply #187 on: April 15, 2011, 08:03:05 am »
kemìri sweylu txo livu nawma txe'lan. tìkangkemìri, nawma eltu.

The subjunctive (iv) is missing in lu (required with sweylu txo).
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Offline Tswusayona Tsamsiyu

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Re: Word Football Game
« Reply #188 on: April 15, 2011, 08:03:54 am »
the structure for sweylu (if the action hasn't yet happend) is sweylu txo v<iv>erb. if you're asking yourself why I didn't put <iv> it's because I wanted a general sense.
Nivume Na'vit, fpivìl nìNa'vi, kivame na Na'vi.....
oer fko syaw tswusayona tsamsiyu

Offline Sireayä mokri

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Re: Word Football Game
« Reply #189 on: April 15, 2011, 08:07:43 am »
if you're asking yourself why I didn't put <iv> it's because I wanted a general sense.

I don't think it can be omitted here.
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Offline Tswusayona Tsamsiyu

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Re: Word Football Game
« Reply #190 on: April 15, 2011, 08:08:30 am »
so how would one use a general sense?
Nivume Na'vit, fpivìl nìNa'vi, kivame na Na'vi.....
oer fko syaw tswusayona tsamsiyu

Offline Sireayä mokri

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Re: Word Football Game
« Reply #191 on: April 15, 2011, 08:11:52 am »
Sweylu txo requires subjunctive to be used, so if you want to avoid it, use different syntax (without sweylu).
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Offline Tanri

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Re: Word Football Game
« Reply #192 on: April 15, 2011, 10:17:30 am »
So, regarding all informations i read about sweylu, it is a very special verb.
- It cannot be used modally, without txo.
- It is clear that sweylu cannot take direct object, but the selection of subjects is very limited as well: subordinate clause with fwa, something in topical case, without subject at all (generic sense).

I am confused with pair of examples: "Sweylu txo nga kivä." / "Nga sweylu txo kivä.". Technically, isn't "txo" a conjunction that effectively splits the entire phrase to main and subordinate clauses? In that case, the free word order cannot cross the clause boundaries, thus "Nga sweylu txo kivä." looks to me as incorrect. Isn't should be "Ngari sweylu txo kivä."?
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Offline Sireayä mokri

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Re: Word Football Game
« Reply #193 on: April 15, 2011, 10:32:46 am »
Well Frommer said that sweylu "acts somewhat like a modal", so nga here becomes its "subject". Just don't take txo in this syntax as you usually would, be it a conjunction.
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Offline Tanri

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Re: Word Football Game
« Reply #194 on: April 15, 2011, 10:45:01 am »
Irayo ma Sireayä.
Oel fpìl futa fìkemlì'u alu sweylu lu hiyìk slä eltur tìtxen si nìteng.
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Offline Sireayä mokri

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Re: Word Football Game
« Reply #195 on: April 15, 2011, 10:46:00 am »
Sran, tsaw hek nì'it, slä tsun livu lesar krro krro :)
When the mirror speaks, the reflection lies.

Offline Tanri

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Re: Word Football Game
« Reply #196 on: April 15, 2011, 04:48:09 pm »
Original quote: In action a great heart is the chief qualification. In work, a great head.
If you have better translation, post it to compare.
Nawma txe'lan lu 'u letsranten frato fte flivä wina kemìri lehrrap, slä tìkangkemìri tsa'u lu nawma eltu.

... trying to say that the original English "action" speaks about "action" as in action game or action movie, not about "action" as generic term for doing something - as we know it in Na'vi. And i cannot resist to try another sentence on the "kem" theme :):

Txo fko zene kemo sivi, sweylu fwa fko tsakem salyi mì hìkrr a tsakem tsayunslu, tup hawnkrr.
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Offline Sireayä mokri

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Re: Word Football Game
« Reply #197 on: April 16, 2011, 07:29:51 am »
Sweylu fwa is used only for actions that has already taken place. Here you talking about something that only would happen, so it should be:

  Txo fko zene kemo sivi, sweylu txo fko tsakem silvi mì hìkrr a tsakem tsayunslu, tup hawngkrr.
When the mirror speaks, the reflection lies.

Offline Tanri

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Re: Word Football Game
« Reply #198 on: April 16, 2011, 01:22:20 pm »
Thanks for correction, i was not sure if i can use <ilv> combination here, not only subjunctive - so i (badly) choose fwa promising "freedom for infixes".
So - this is another difference from modals - <iv> after "sweylu txo" can be combined with aspect.
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Offline Sireayä mokri

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Re: Word Football Game
« Reply #199 on: April 16, 2011, 01:30:27 pm »
I think it might be possible, but Frommer hasn't said anything about aspects in this construction, so don't take it as 100% correct ;)  
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