Ethnography of the Real Life Na'vi

[Hì'irawr]

Actually, I feel that you dont understand what slash and burn agriculture is, though it sounds destructive it is in fact one of the most nature friendly ways to grow things. If your not planning on doing any form of farming, then you will in no way have a sustainable society, if your numbers exceed 25 and you are stuck living on a pre sanctioned plot of land your resources will dwindle pretty rapidly, by rapid I mean a few years.

Im not saying to give up your religious beliefs.

Historically many people agreed on lots of things, and the way that ends up is with huge fights and seperations. If you need an example think or read about the Protestant reformation. Those people all believe in one god and yet they split up. They agreed on almost everything except how their religion should operate? So if you agree about living together but disagree about something like politics or religion there will be arguing and fighting.

Instead of being guarded I was kinda hoping that people would be willing to help and share some information about culture in this topic, You seem to think that many cultures come closer to the Na'vi then these people, would you please share some examples with us?

Also, from what I read and judging by where this topic is located, on a forum about Na'vi, I was assuming that your overall intention was to live in a similar culture to the Na'vi, if thats not the case then why is this topic called Real-life Na'vi Tribe? Im sorry if I am coming across in all the wrong ways, but this whole situation is multi sided, and there needs to be some agreeing before any of these topics about a real life tribe, on the forum will progress in any way, I'm just trying to help you guys along, so dont think Im misinterpreting you, because thus far you have not been clear!

Laundry time!

The fact that the Guarani are similar is completely my opinion, I associate things like self sustainable, Pantheistic beliefs, deep respect for nature, persecuted by the MAN!, and so forth makes them very similar. That part is my opinion solely and if you have other groups of people to tell us about please do!@

[Txon Taronyu]

Religion only causes problems when ignorance arises and since we are in a small group we can learn alot about each others belifes so no problem

also we will have to move around alot to be hunters but we dont want to farm lots of hunter gathers don't so why do we have to if we don't want to

[Hì'irawr]

Yah moving around alot is great, and practical, if you have an entire planet to your disposal, such as Pandora? In this day and age I think you guys would be lucky to get a good location, and even luckier if you had alot of land, sure if you became the owner of a national forest moving around alot would be practical, but you are going to be pretty limited as to what you can get and agriculture on a small scale is the most energy, cost, and eco friendly method to live by. Hunting/Gathering societies as I said before were nomadic, hence why there were Indians in America when Europeans got here, it is mandatory for you to move over large areas of land during an entire year in order for the environment to recover from what you are taking from it. If you do not then animal populations will dwindle, plants will not grow as healthy from being over harvested, and so forth. An example of this in my Home state of Washington": Stevens county is a very popular place for people to hunt fish and so forth, Where I lived there was a mountain, on this mountain there were deer, turkey, elk, huckleberries galore when I was young, by last year, there were hardly any deer turkey or huckleberries, this was due to the fact that a small population of local peoples, for only one short month long period of the year, managed to impact the natural habitat and animal populations into scarcity. The population size of this group will definitely determine how much space you need, if your group is under 100 and you only take what you need you could manage to live on a relatively small plot of land in harmony with the surrounding habitat, If you over indulge, or your population grows over a few hundred, then the ecosystem will not be able to support you.

This information only is applicable if you are shooting for a bigger colony of people, or have no idea how to live in balance with nature! Give respect to nature or it will kill you!

[Txon Taronyu]

Why are you so negative?

We can find a large plot of land and just move to different parts of it

We don't want to farm

[Hì'irawr]

Its not being negative that's the issue its that you are trying to set something up and are to stubborn to consider that some things are either illegal to do, such as hunting without limits, or near impossible to obtain, such as a large plot of land that someone is willing to give up for your cause, whether your going to pay them or not. I am trying to help you see the reality of the situation rather than just look past some obvious things that are right in front of you, unless you are native american and live on a reservation in the USA you can not hunt or fish as much as you like, if you understand that and can give me a reasonable solution to this issue I will say again small scale farming is your only option of a self sustaining society!

Thats all I have to say about this!

[guest2859]

'The idea of a perfect society is a tribal system, with freedom to live off the land and not a leader but a decider'

So basically the world is so screwed up that it wouldn't work politically but in a situation of survival then it'd work.

[Ikranä mokri]

were going to be a hunter gather society

which means we hunt and gather to survive!

a small garden for each person is easy to maintain hell i do at my house and its simple you a have a small plot break it up a bit and do a cycle (crop rotation basically) but it works

slash and burn may put nutrients into teh soil but there is too much of a risk of it spearding and causing a major fire ( as i know much too well)

and we will probably have a central tribe sorta base but we will have hunting parties roaming around looking for the prey in teh area

[Fnua Atxkxe]

Religion only causes problems when ignorance arises and since we are in a small group we can learn alot about each others belifes so no problem

This is true, it is important that such a small community is completely open minded about religion and lifetsyyle choices. If we are not it's not like living in a big city where you can avoid people. We have to get on with everyone (within reason). If you do not think you can live side by side with different faith groups then don't go and live with a small group of people with mixed faiths. It won't work. I accept everyones belief and lifestyles (again within reason i.e. not if they are mass murders or criminals or such).

Why are you so negative?

Difference between pessimism and realism. Having people who can foresee difficulties and not simply get caught up in the idea is important. I don't think Hì'irawr has set out to crush the idea but anybody who helps us to realise something is impossible helps us to find a solution as we will work around any difficulties. Hì'irawr was only trying to be helpful. He might not be following the ideas we have discussed as closely as some others here.

[Hì'irawr]

Well I was trying to follow the ideas pretty closely, I did manage to skip over the state of the union sticky convo.

Before I have to much more to say about this I think you guys need to overcome the issue of location. If you are in The USA then I know for sure unless you are Native American, and unless you are living on a reservation, the government, PETA, and anyone else for animal right and population control will be strongly against the idea of a hunting gathering society being unleashed on the land. That's why I suggested some farming tactics, because not only will it get those groups off your case, it will also give you sustainable resources and a well balanced diet.

And just to be clear, Slash and burn agriculture is something that a certain group of people in the Amazonian rain forests managed to do successfully for thousands of years. In no way am I saying this is what you should do, but if you are living in the Amazonian Rain forests I would definitely investing some time in understanding how this process works, because it could save you alot of pain and suffering by learning the hard way.

[Rolyu]

You have to bear and mind though that a slash and burn style on a large scale will be permanently detrimental.

I don't think its something that's required in the Pacific NW at least.  Around here you can just find a sport where not to many needles fall (the acid will kill your plants) and have a little garden.  Now, do you count having small gardens and a couple animals to depend on as farming?


Txon Taronyu: You are so stubborn! And young, obviously, very confident, and naive.  You have really great ideas, but you don't know enough to actually understand what it takes to implement them.  Have you actually researched any working hunting and gathering societies?  Do you know what it takes?  The nomadic hunter/gather tribes of Africa ceased to be hunter/gatherers once the Continent was divided into countries.  Why?  Because they had to travel across several countries in order to sustain their lifestyle. It is nearly impossible to find such a large stretch of land to live on, and impossible to afford.  Can this group get together $1,000,000 to buy a thousand acre plot of land that will sustain them?  Can you find such a place anymore?  The reason people started farming thousands of years ago is because they were starving to death.  The reason the predominantly hunter/gatherer pygmy tribes of the world are pygmies is because they starve.  It's not a genetic mutation, its a by product of generations of starvation.
Your inability to think beyond yourself is starting to push my buttons.

[Txon Taronyu]

There are still hunter gathers in Africa and I have looked into many hunter gather societys

Also by your logic all african tribes people should be pigmies but the tallest people in the world(on avarge) live in african tribes

Also the reson people started farming was because they were in the middle east and egypt aka deserts so no food but forest people only stared to farm to compete with them so they don't become slaves or die

and altough there are few large streaches of land if we go farther north there are areas in Russia and Canada were people live with out oning the land so it is possible to find places

and no need to be offencive

I may be young but I am not overconfident or naive

even if I am these things you are untactful and rude and think you know everything

[Hì'irawr]

This thread is just becoming a fight.

Forget about it, I am starting to care less and less about your well being in the woods. You are obviously a huge fan of learning the hard way. I hope You guys manage to make your dream come true, but your control freak attitude will bring a group to dislike you, you have definitely pushed me away from wanting to help. You have it all figured out so Ill just move elsewhere on the forum, there is still plenty of interesting things to talk about. Once you as a group make more precise decisions on your plan I might consider contributing to this thread, but as of now no thanks.

P.S.

There are some really swell people on this thread and I think that with those positive attitudes you will make shish happen!

Goodluck and Talk at you later

[Rolyu]

Actually, the tallest people in the world (on average) are the Dutch.  With the average male being about 5'10"
The tallest Africans (the Tutsi) actually only average 5'7" tall
The idea of Africans being giants came about when Europeans exploring the continent came across these 5'7" tall Africans.  At the time a tall Englishman was only about 5'2"

Here's some history, taken from an anthropologists article:

"The Tall and Short of it" written by Barry Bogin, extracted from the 19th Edition of "Annual Editions Physical Anthropology"

"In an age where DNA is King, it is worth considering why Americans are no longer the the world's tallest people, and some Guatemalans no longer pygmies.  One of the most obvious manifestations of human malleability is our great range of height, and it is a subject I've made a special study of for the last 25 years.  Consider these statistics: in 1850 Americans were the tallest people in the world, with American men averaging 5'6".  Almost 150 years later, American men now average 5'8", but we have fallen in the standings and are now pnly the third tallest people in the world.  In first place are the Dutch.  Back in 1850 they averaged only 5'4" - the shortest men in Europe - but today they are a towering 5'10". (In these two groups, and just about everywhere else, women average about 5 inches less than men at all times.)
... It's a product of plasticity in our childhood and in our mother's childhood as well.  If a girl is undernourished and suffers poor health, the growth of her body, including her reproductive system, is usually reduced. With a shortage of raw materials, she can't build more cells to construct a bigger body. At the same time, she has to invest what materials she can get into repairing already existing cells and tissues from damage caused by disease.  Her shorter stature is the result of compromise her body makes while growing up.
  Such a woman can pass on her short stature to her child, but genes have nothing to do with it for either of them. If she becomes pregnant, her small reproductive system probably wont be able to supply a normal level of nutrients and oxygen to her fetus. This harsh environment reprograms the fetus to grow more slowly than it would if the woman was healthier, so she is more likely to give birth to a smaller baby. Low birth weight babies (weighing less than 5.5 lbs) tend to continue their prenatal program of slow growth throughout childhood.  By the time they are teenagers, they are usually significantly shorter than people of normal birth weight. Some particularly striking evidence of this reprogramming comes from studies on monozygotic twins, which develop from a single fertilized egg and are therefore identical genetically. In certain cases, monozygotic twins end up being nourished by unequal portions of the placenta.  The twin with the smaller fraction of the placenta is often born with a low birth weight, while the other one is normal.  Follow-up studies show that this difference between the twins can last throughout their lives.
  As such research suggests, we can use the average height of any group of people as a barometer of the health of their society. After the turn of the century both the United States and the Netherlands began to protect the health of their citizens by purifying drinking water, installing sewer systems,  regulating the safety of food, and, most important, providing better health care and diets to children. The children responded... by growing taller.
 ...The Dutch provide health benefits to all the public, including the poor.  In the United States, meanwhile, improved health is enjoyed most by those who can afford it.... in 1990 only 4% of Dutch babies were born at a low birth weight, compared with 7 percent in the United States.
... People are often surprised when I tell the the Dutch are the tallest people in the world.  Aren't they shrimps compared to the famously tall Tutsi of Central Africa?  Actually, the supposed great height of the Tutsi is one of the durable myths from the age of Exploration.  Careful investigation reveals that today's Tutsi men average 5'7" and that they have maintained that average for more than 100 years.  That means in the 1800s, when puny European men first me the Tutsi, the two to three inch different in average height back then could have easily turned into fantastic stories of African giants."

And remember, the Tutsi have been cattle farmers for over 100 years.

The Northern parts of Canada and Russia are primarily uninhabited for good reason.  They're really cold.  Really really cold.  So cold that in the winter your hand sticks to an ice-cube, and your snot freezes inside your nose as you breathe.

@Hi'irawr: You posted before I finished!    Don't get discouraged!  Txon Taronyu is not the only one here who wants to do this.  

EDIT: The article continues to talk about the Pygmies, and how they are short primarily because of the poor health of their children, who lack many essential vitamins plus iodine.  I think I already mentioned them somewhere else in the forum though.

[Txon Taronyu]

well we would not live in the north

I am also sorry for what I said to you I just don't like being insulted

and you do know a lot about this kind of stuff so what ever

[Fnua Atxkxe]

I am also sorry if you thought I was saying you didn't have an idea of what we were palnning on, that's why I said you might not be following the other threads as preciscely as some. Other than that I was trying to defend what you were sayiing. We definitely need to be more careful as to how heated are debated get, I am not singling anyone out here, just that some threads get a bit tense like the guns yes or no thread. If we cannot act civily on this forum it raises questions as to how well we could get on in real life. Again, no-one in particular

[Rolyu]

@Fnua: You're nice and smart.  You get a cookie.
@Txon Taronyu : You're brave.  You get a karma cookie too.

[Fnua Atxkxe]

Irayo for cookie, have been wanting some food and this means I don't have to go downstairs

Oh and i said I might write another one of these on the eco-village today but I haven't had time, I got asked to provide a review of one of our great members analysis on a project he was doing for school, it was on the song "I See You" from Avatar soundtrack, it was really good. I will try and get around to writing an eco-village list using the layout Hì'irawr gave us with the Ethnography tomorrow but I'm not staying up till one again to write it tonight.

[Txon Taronyu]

Thxs and I am nicer in real life its just its hard to express ones self on the internet most of what I write that is mean is a sacastic joke

[Fnua Atxkxe]

I never thought you were not nice just arrogant . Second part is a joke, that's why I've used the winking smiley

[Hì'irawr]

@fnua: I really appreciated your input actually, and I didn't take what you said in a bad way. If I could I would give you hecka Karma for having wonderful input.

@Txon: I appreciate your input to, its just that quite a few of the things you say seem like they are your opinions over facts. It was also irritated how you kept speaking as if you were the groups leader, using terms such as we. Im not trying to insult your intelligence and apologize if I have, just make sure you get your facts straight, and keep being stubborn and Im sure this plan will work for you!

@Rolyu: You are cute, I think I'm in love with you!