Author Topic: Final (hopefully) technology discussion.  (Read 2351 times)

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Offline Esmond

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Re: Final (hopefully) technology discussion.
« Reply #20 on: September 28, 2010, 10:54:41 am »
But how would we get internet connections in such a secluded place?

Electricity can be generated on-site but Internet requires either a line or a satellite.

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Offline Key'ìl Nekxetse

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Re: Final (hopefully) technology discussion.
« Reply #21 on: September 28, 2010, 12:04:38 pm »
Buy LOADS of fibre?
Satellite sounds practical but will need money.
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Offline Txonari

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Re: Final (hopefully) technology discussion.
« Reply #22 on: September 28, 2010, 12:54:22 pm »
But how would we get internet connections in such a secluded place?

Electricity can be generated on-site but Internet requires either a line or a satellite.

Hmm.. well, currently satellite would be most convenient. It is expensive, though. I've heard that in the not-so-distant future, they're working on protocols for an over-the-air WAN similar to current 3G cell data networks, but much father distance and _much_ faster. It's supposed to replace most current broadband delivery methods.

So, if we ever get coverage for something like that in the future, it's supposed to be much cheaper than satellite, so it would be worth looking into.

But until that technology is developed and deployed, we'd probably have to rely on satellite.
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Offline Nantxe'lan

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Re: Final (hopefully) technology discussion.
« Reply #23 on: September 28, 2010, 01:51:04 pm »
satelite connection is also really slow. and - as allready mentioned - it is quite expensive and as far as i know there are no flat fees for internet connection via satelite.
but both points could be seen as advantages, since due to those facts internet usage will be restricted to the absolute minimum: abuse becomes impossible ;D
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Offline Letxuma Swizaw

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Re: Final (hopefully) technology discussion.
« Reply #24 on: September 28, 2010, 02:03:05 pm »
It would be nice to run something like say, a recruitment site to find new members along side a blog however, i dont think satelite internet will be within our monetary limitations especially if we want to run a website (server cost, domain cost). Maybe if we're lucky the site we choose will have 3g access in which case that would be a far cheaper alternative.
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Re: Final (hopefully) technology discussion.
« Reply #25 on: September 28, 2010, 02:19:03 pm »
It will almost certainly be a satellite connection. The cost should be acceptable if we only run a website, server rental is inexpensive for a group this size and we would be using a small amount of data. I think the benefits of an online presence far outweigh the costs, even if it is operated by on of the temporary members.

Offline Txonari

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Re: Final (hopefully) technology discussion.
« Reply #26 on: September 28, 2010, 02:42:41 pm »
satelite connection is also really slow. and - as allready mentioned - it is quite expensive and as far as i know there are no flat fees for internet connection via satelite.
but both points could be seen as advantages, since due to those facts internet usage will be restricted to the absolute minimum: abuse becomes impossible ;D

I see what you're saying, but what exactly constitutes abuse of the connection? I enjoy using the internet, and I would probably like to surf a little every once in awhile, even for just 30 minutes.
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Offline Nantxe'lan

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Re: Final (hopefully) technology discussion.
« Reply #27 on: September 28, 2010, 03:39:00 pm »
i assumed that the internet connection would be used only for the sole purpose of staying in touch with the outside world or to get needed information. and 30 minutes once in a while is not an abuse, while surfing for hours everyday is IMO. at least when it comes to the tribe.

some facts about european DSA via Satelite providers:
Downstream: 3,6 Mbit/s
Upstream: 384 Kbit/s
monthly fee: 74,80 Euros including hardware rent.
and i think in south america prices are much higher.

despite that, internet connection will depend on our location anyway. if we stay with Geraldo Island, it might be possible to use a cable connection. as the description of Geraldo on Private Islands Online states: "Telephone connections are good, both land lines and mobile telephones. This also goes for the islands."
so we would at least be able to use old fashioned dial-up, if not ISDN or even DSL.
but "good connection" is a rather flexible term... since we'll have no need in using a telephone and an internet connection at the same time, even dial-up should be enough.

[...] The cost should be acceptable if we only run a website, server rental is inexpensive for a group this size [...]
aren't there any free hosts? i can only judge by my expiereience with german host providers. and with some you still have your own url with just a little addition, e.g. reallifetribe.de.vu
i'm sure there are plenty of free host providers out there :)
« Last Edit: September 28, 2010, 03:48:26 pm by Nantxe'lan »
"All I ever wanted in my sorry-ass life was a single thing worth fighting for."
"Sometimes your whole life boils down to one insane move."
Atxkxe - I somehow love this word.

Oeru syaw Nantxe'lan taluna oeri txe'lan 'efu na txe'lan nantangä.
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Offline Txonari

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Re: Final (hopefully) technology discussion.
« Reply #28 on: September 28, 2010, 03:53:40 pm »
Ah. I see. Well, I agree then. If people are spending hours a day on the computer(s), then it would definitely be a problem.

Yeah, satellite is definitely expensive. Although with the major provider (hughesnet) here in North America, prices vary based on what speed package you choose. Their slowest (1 mbps down, 128 kbps up) is approximately $60. Which -- when relatively compared to the one you mentioned -- is not worth it.

Dial-up, ISDN, & DSL would be extremely convenient for their cost and (at least on DSL) speeds. However, the major problem we would face with that is that providers are slowly phasing out support for those "obsolete" methods. Once DSL took over, dial-up began disappearing. Then, once cable appeared, DSL began disappearing. Now, with fiber optic networks, cable is phasing out, too.

I think it's almost impossible to plan out how we'll get internet as of yet. I think we should wait until we're almost set up for that decision. After all, prices are constantly fluctuating, and new technologies are always being developed. There might be some totally new (and cheap) connection type by the time we get things set up.
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Offline Txalion

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Re: Final (hopefully) technology discussion.
« Reply #29 on: September 28, 2010, 08:24:51 pm »
Hey, not meaning to but in (continue the current conversation around me) but I wanted to donate some knowlage about bows and bow making. I recently bought my first wooden bow -a beautiful English longbow-at a renfair. I talked with the merchant who sold it to me and learned some interesting things. Bows need to be made of spesific wood, wood that is flexable but strong. Many different societies use different woods but in this they are united. The wood must be kiln fired in order to be strong and long lasting. The string of the bow is often made of woven hair covered in wax of some type to keep it from becomeing brittle. The bow needs to be oiled every one to two months to keep it from drying out and snaping. When using a bow, it cannot be strung all the time. You string it to shoot and then you unstring it to keep it from staying bent and taking away the poundage. Arrows (especialy wooden) wobble when shot from a bow. Shooting the same arrow multiple times causes it to bend and eventualy it will be useless (can't aim at all).
As to hunting, America (just an example) uses a licenses system where they give out a number of them a year and they are for spesific animals. This can be a bother but when you use the entirety of the animal, this can be a very benifical resource. Hunting with a bow can be time consuming but not taxing at all when done right.
As a bow user I just have to say the bow is a beautiful and ancient weapon that has been favored for centuries for it's sleek beauty and it's many uses. Our society doesn't have to depend on hunting for it's food, but having a few licences (if that is what we will be useing) would be a good thing to have around if there is a lack of food. Plus shooting a bow is just plain fun! Anyway just wanted to clarify a few things. ^_^
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Offline Letxuma Swizaw

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Re: Final (hopefully) technology discussion.
« Reply #30 on: September 28, 2010, 09:40:55 pm »
In places with hunting permits wardens generally turn a blind-eye towards those who do not just blatantly abuse poaching, if their main food source is hunting and trapping. I know this because i used to stay in a cabin in the rural area of southern ohio when i went hunting where the owners had no job and just lived off of the land. This is of course a very localized observation but i believe that it's safe to assume most game wardens in other areas would hold the same opinion towards people who live solely off the land.

And to add to the bow info: a lot of bow string can be made from hides cut in spiral shapes then stretched and dried straight. The "specified wood" you speak of isn't really as elitist as that. While there are certainly preferred woods any hard wood will do this includes: (in order of most desired) yew, ash, elm, bamboo, apple, walnut, palm, etc. (anything referred to as a hard wood generally will make a good bow)
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Offline Nantxe'lan

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Re: Final (hopefully) technology discussion.
« Reply #31 on: September 29, 2010, 06:02:39 am »
i was only taught how to twine a bowstring out of hemp fibres, but i never really got that... ???

the problem is that traditional "western" bowcrafting was centered around a lush supply on hardwood, therefore  there is little to no knowledge on improvements. they kept using "primitive" stave bows a.k.a. selfbows, while most cultures in eastern europe / asia as well as many natives used composite bows, recurves, siyahs, backings, reflex and/or deflex and whatnot for centuries, so consider the english longbow and most west- & center-european bow types as "obsolete" ;D
despite that hardwood is preferred for bows, some cultures like the Inuit don't have access to hardwood. but they use cordage backing which enables them to use even fir wood to make hunting bows...
this is a really interesting technique, since a cordage backing can increase the pull weigth up to 27%. an additional sinew backing can increase it even more.
plus it reduces the stress for the wood which increases its durability, even with soft woods.

as far as i can judge, Letxuma Swizaw has an appropriate knowledge about bows and bowcrafting and if we put together our knowledge, i'm sure we'll be able to determine the best type of bow for the tribe, depending on our available resources.
"All I ever wanted in my sorry-ass life was a single thing worth fighting for."
"Sometimes your whole life boils down to one insane move."
Atxkxe - I somehow love this word.

Oeru syaw Nantxe'lan taluna oeri txe'lan 'efu na txe'lan nantangä.
[img]http://i1214.photobucket.com/albums/

Offline Tsteu'itan

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Re: Final (hopefully) technology discussion.
« Reply #32 on: September 29, 2010, 11:41:54 am »
As an archer, I can personally attest to the fact that English Longbows are not obsolete.  I'm actually more accurate with a longbow, and there's a reason the English Archers were so feared in the old days.  They're an amazing weapon, you just have to have practice.

Still, any type of bow - as long as it's durable and strong enough to kill - would be usefull for hunting.  The only bows I don't like are compound, and that's because I'm a hardcore traditional archer.  :P  Compound bows are cheating and taking the skill out of the sport.

Offline Letxuma Swizaw

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Re: Final (hopefully) technology discussion.
« Reply #33 on: September 29, 2010, 12:06:44 pm »
i dont think they are takiing out the skill just changing the skill set for archery. With traditional archery its more of a "feel" that you use to know where to aim but with compound you have to be very good at ranging with just your eyes (now range finders that's cheating ;)). I enjoy archery using all types and although my favourite by far is my recurve there are days when i love using my compound and even my crossbow which is only really challenging at very long ranges.
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Offline Nantxe'lan

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Re: Final (hopefully) technology discussion.
« Reply #34 on: September 29, 2010, 01:39:03 pm »
don't get me wrong. i like ELBs myself (although i prefer a slightly different technique to shoot them) and with "obsolete" i was just reffering to the general design of english longbows. they haven't changed in design since they were first introduced although a slight recurve for example would increase the preformance noticeably in terms of range and ballistics - thats just a matter of physics.
the reason why english archers were so feared was that their bows had a pull weight up to 120 pounds and more which enabled them to shoot way further as most other archers and the arrows penetrated even a plate mail. a pain for an archer but a reason to be feared nevertheless...

... but i have the faint suspicion we're slightly Off-Topic ;D
« Last Edit: September 29, 2010, 02:14:58 pm by Nantxe'lan »
"All I ever wanted in my sorry-ass life was a single thing worth fighting for."
"Sometimes your whole life boils down to one insane move."
Atxkxe - I somehow love this word.

Oeru syaw Nantxe'lan taluna oeri txe'lan 'efu na txe'lan nantangä.
[img]http://i1214.photobucket.com/albums/

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Re: Final (hopefully) technology discussion.
« Reply #35 on: September 29, 2010, 01:43:32 pm »
We are definitely off-Topic. On the plus side, it took a whole 3 pages this time!
Anyone volunteering to research Brazilian hunting regulations (I guess I could...) I am optimistic that they will will be somewhat more relaxed than those in the US.

Offline Txalion

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Re: Final (hopefully) technology discussion.
« Reply #36 on: September 29, 2010, 05:38:07 pm »
It is illegal to hunt ANYWHERE in Brazil except a lower southern state. However, this only pertains to sport hunting I think. The source I found says that an animal can be killed in self defense or if it is necessary to feed one's self or family. I'm not sure if it's only in the southern state or not. Apparently Brazil takes it's wildlife very seriously. Since we will be using hunting as a necessary food source I think that it will be okay but again I'm not sure.
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Offline Txonari

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Re: Final (hopefully) technology discussion.
« Reply #37 on: September 29, 2010, 05:45:07 pm »
Since we will be using hunting as a necessary food source I think that it will be okay but again I'm not sure.

I doubt it. I'm pretty sure they mean hunting in an emergency situation where you can't otherwise buy food. We'd technically be choosing to hunt.
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Offline Tsyal Maktoyu

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Re: Final (hopefully) technology discussion.
« Reply #38 on: September 29, 2010, 08:37:28 pm »
Yeah, I think Txonari is probably right. They probably mean 2-3 people needing to feed themselves in an emergency, or maybe camping. I'm not sure we could stretch the rules to a group of 20+ people and for our entire lives.

Brazil's government really is a pain.  >:(


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Offline _

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Re: Final (hopefully) technology discussion.
« Reply #39 on: September 29, 2010, 10:38:12 pm »
Satellite internet costs upwards of $2/mb, just a heads up 8)

 

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