Kids and homeschooling

Started by Nìmwey, June 12, 2011, 05:45:49 AM

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Nìmwey

Now, I know it's (and rightly so) been said "No kids in the tribe for the first years", but sooner or later, if people are going to do this for the rest of their lives, at some point, there will be kids in the tribe.

So, hypothetically speaking now, if we were to pick a country where homeschooling is not allowed - what to do then? "Presume" that nothing will happen, that child services are not likely to come knocking a hut door? Let the kids go to school? (In my opinion... no.) "Fight" it? (Not good for publicity, people are going to think we are crazy enough as it is.)

In a best-case scenario, bad publicity, or perhaps they would even let us get away with it (but it feels highly unlikely, after all, the law applies to everyone). In a worst-case scenario, could the kids even be taken away forcibly, if we refuse to send them away to school?

I don't know a lot about this, and I don't know what to do about it.
I'm sure "we" (be it here, at Blue Moon, Tree of Souls or Avatar Forums) have talked about it before, but no matter how much I search, I can't find it.

So what to think? Is a "no home-schooling country" automatically and completely out of the question?
If we take Brazil as just an example (neither the Blue Moon Tribe nor you guys are looking into it as far as I know, like I said, it's just an example), I found this at Wikipedia: "A couple, a Brazilian mother and an American father, was investigated in 2010 by the municipal government of Serra Negra, São Paulo, for homeschooling their children. The local authorities were tipped off by an anonymous source because the couples's two daughters did not attend school."

I guess if we live far away from people with no visitors, it wouldn't be much of a problem. But if people come over, if we have a "wilderness school" now and then (we have talked about it at Blue Moon), I guess it would be hard for people not to notice kids in the tribe, and then might go running away to the media about it.

So, if we were to (again, hypothetically) find a country which seems "perfect" - but - they don't allow homeschooling. Then what?

Nìmwey

25 views and not a single opinion? ???

Tsanten Eywa 'eveng

Quoteif people are going to do this for the rest of their lives, at some point, there will be kids in the tribe.

I am going to do this for the rest of my life, to live out in the forest :D :) ;)

Fnua Atxkxe

If you pick a country that does not allow for home-schooling I don't see what we could do other than pack them a lunchbox and send them off. we realllly don't want to be aggrevating any local authorites or getting any bad press (none more than we'll get for being crazy anyway). Could cause quite a lot of social difficulties for a child growing up, I don't no that it would really be good for the child but if there are going to be children in the tribe and homeschooling isn't an option then I don't see what we could do. Plus I suppose it would give the child a view of a different way of life and ultimately if they want to remain with the tribe when they grow up, instead of just spoon feeding them our beliefs which would be very easy to do despite any good intentions.
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Lolet

#4
I know I'm not part of this "tribe", but my brother was homeschooled, and I am a child.

Homeschooling is a lot of work for the parents. My mom was constantly busy when teaching my brother. She never had any time to relax. You may not want to waste your time yelling at your kids to study instead of going out into the woods. Your kids will probably want to leave and go out into the world, and they need to be prepared.

If you send them to school, what kind of clothes will they wear? Storebought or handmade? Whatever it is, it had better look just like everyone elses' or they'll get teased. And that's just in the elementary years. In high school, kids want the newest thing. Usually expensive.

What about TV, or internet for homework assignments? Or sports equipment? Braces? I cost my parents about $600 a year, and that's just clothing and beauty products (Sephora isn't cheap  ::) ). And if you don't buy them what they want, they'll hate you.

It's easier when they're young. I used to play with a plastic skeleton and a corncob for hours.  :P

I hope you guys don't mind me butting in here.  :)

Nìmwey

Thanks for the input, and of course you can give your opinion too, Lolet te Maticay. :)

But still, there are ecovillages and similar communities in countries like Brazil and Germany, where homeschooling is simply not allowed. So if any families live there permanently, far away from schools, what do they do, I wonder? My concern however was with Spain, and while the list on Wikipedia (a very unreliable source, I know ;)) said that it's illegal over there, this picture sais otherwise: http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/4/4f/Homeschool_Legality-World.svg

'Itan Atxur

I personally like the idea of sending children out into the world for schooling and letting them decide which life is best for them.

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Nìmwey

Yes, that is for the parents to decide, and that's kind of my point; in a strict no-homeschooling country, they don't have that choice.
But I don't think I'll ever want to have kids, so I, personally, will probably not have to worry about it. ::)

Nantxe'lan

#8
well my idea was allways to have a "tribe school" instead of real home schooling (although it would count as home schooling in terms of education laws) because teaching children is time consuming (as Lolet te Maticay stated)... but thats not the topic  ;)

my concerns about puplic schools are not that they could "lure" our children away from the tribe. actually i hope that they might recruit some more children and their families for our goals.
what i am afraid of is that our children might be harassed by other children - because our children will (most likely) never own status symbols like smartphones, video game consoles, own computers, brand-name clothes and the like. or because of the way we (and therefore their parents) live.
there are so many "reasons" to harass other children. there is even harassment WITHOUT ANY REASON. and the mere fact of our planned way of life adds about a dozen more reasons to harass our children.

on the other hand this could narrow down the decission to two clearly articulated possibilities:



  • either leave the tribe behind just to get the opportunity to own all this fancy stuff civilisation has to offer (and perhaps "hate" us, because we never wanted to get them this stuff)
  • or leave "civilisation" behind, because they don't want to live in a society where your worth is messured on the status symbols you own.

but no matter how this will affect their decission - our children might have about 10 years of hell on earth, if they are forced to go to public school. and thats what i am really afraid of.
thats why i would vote against countries which have compulsory education - unless in this country (or atleast in the region we'll live in) things like status symbols and welth (or our "poverty") don't matter at all. developing countries for example (yes i know that the usually don't have compulsory education) or brazil with its schools for children of indigenous people.
and perhaps we could even achieve an "own school", like the "The Twelve Tribes" movement did in germany.
but unless such possibilities are given, i'd say NO to countries which don't allow home schooling.
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'Itan Atxur

They may be harassed in public school, but I think that would only be likely in more populated countries such as the US where we are highly unlikely to place our tribe. Also, being the harassed (instead of the harasser) could potentially make them a stronger person when they are older. Nobody likes to be bullied, but the easy life doesn't teach anybody anything.

Also, I think NOT giving our children (assuming we even have them) the opportunity to experience other life styles would dramatically increase the chances of them leaving and hating us. I strongly believe that even if they were to choose a life outside the tribe, it would be next to impossible for them to hate us because we will have given them the choice AND brought them up in a non materialistic way.

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Lolet

I don't think anybody looks back on the times when they were bullied and thinks, "I'm so glad that happened. It really made things better in the end." It's more like, "When I see my tormentor again, I WILL get revenge!".

In regards to not having all the fancy things in life, the most important question is: Will you make their clothes at home?

Clothes are so important to kids. Clothes can make it or break it for you. If I wear the wrong thing somewhere, I just want to hide in the bathroom. And homemade clothing is usually not that great.  :-\ No offense to anyone with mad sewing skills, of course.

guest2859


But yeah, I eventually hope to have a son in my future life, but I'm only 16 and too young to be thinking of this.

-----Edit-----

But my view on schooling, to my belief of nature, a parent should have the full right not granted by law to teach their own kids. Like, people say then no 2 kids would have the same intelligence. But regardless, no 2 will, and more recently a lot more people have been graduating by just a fraction over a percent the passing grade, and to me says that school's putting us at too much of a technological level than a realistic level. Well, people interact, and actually learn from each other as a 2-way lesson, instead of getting preached at.

I want to put one of my recent personal stories to kind of back this up:

My father has accused my mother of everything for a decade, and when he found out that I hated him to my fullest extend*, he gave up on me and told me to 'tell me that my mother had won by brainwashing me', thus I should never have to talk to him again. But, 2 weeks ago, he blew up on me over the phone, saying that my mother was to blame for my whole lifestyle, instead of thinking it through that I actually went to school for 40 hours a week, and worked alongside a bunch of liars, drug addicts, and that have a bigger influence on me than my mother, sad to say, because they're at my age, level, and have more/less problems in life than me.

So it just goes to say, I don't think what I just said made any sense at all, but I don't think we should have organized schooling and should enforce socialism as a form of communication.


-----Edit-----

I think I was having a mental rage a few minutes ago. I'm not sure anymore.

Nìmwey

Thinking about this again... what about child welfare laws?
In the various countries I have researched, I have looked up (not every point in every country, but generally)
* Hunting laws
* Huntable animals
* Climate and temperature
* Natural disasters
* Dangerous animals
* Diseases
* Health rates
* Homeschooling laws
* Abortion laws
* Land price
* And some other things, like animals you can and can't keep...

But I haven't looked up child welfare laws. And in some more advanced countries, like the US (Hawaii) and Spain, that may be an issue.
I don't really know where to look, I tried but it's hard to find real, simple info on the matter.

And I think it is a really important issue, we don't want some tribe members having kids and then have them taken away because we didn't fulfill all the legal requirements.

'Itan Atxur

It's a good point and another thing we'll definitely have to add to the check list.

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Tonbogiri

Hm. This issue flags up how long term our plan is - home-schooling is always an option, particularly if we have a whole bunch of kids from different families around (listen to my optimism) which would remove the isolation that homeschooling can cause.

Bullying is a terrible part of life. There are those who are lucky enough to have never experienced it, and those who are not...but it is a hard thing to predict or prepare for! How our children would react to it would be impossible to predict, as every child is unique...ack, I think we should try for a combination of home schooling and public education, it's the only way i can think of.


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Tsmuktengan

I am not sure what you are looking for precisely in the Child Welfare category.

The first clear thing is that, in any country where the authorities are stable and developed enough, as long as there is not a single act of abuse (either sexual, neglect, physical or psychological abuse), things shall be fine. All occidental states should have pretty much similar laws and institutions. This means we need to follow strict principles and safety measures with good preparation.

I have found some information about homeschooling in Hawaii. It seems legal, although appears to be controversial in the US according to Wikipedia's page on Homeschooling in the US.

This is also possible on French territories, but with perhaps a little more checking from the authorities : "Legal as alternative to the mandatory public school system. Inspections are mandatory every years.".

Without having been able to find this kind of information for Hawaii, pre-requisites may be similar or equivalent.

I have not found any information for Argentina yet. Probably because, as it is said in Wikipedia, "There is no law addressing homeschooling in Argentina. It is the parents' responsibility to make sure their child(ren) get an adequate education.". I have found a few association websites for homeschooling in Argentina, but could not understand much (need to revise my Spanish). If this shall be easier to handle, I doubt there would be a great social care system there.


Txalion

You know there is a another solution. I am going to be going to collage soon to become a teacher, that's my goal and it's what I've wanted to do for a long time now. If we do not want our children to go to a public school, then there might be ways to start our own small legal school in our village. As long as we teach was is required of them, in a sanitary environment, and have all of the legal things taken care of we should be able to do this rather easily.
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Tsmuktengan

Quote from: Txalion on October 25, 2011, 02:17:55 PM
You know there is a another solution. I am going to be going to collage soon to become a teacher, that's my goal and it's what I've wanted to do for a long time now. If we do not want our children to go to a public school, then there might be ways to start our own small legal school in our village. As long as we teach was is required of them, in a sanitary environment, and have all of the legal things taken care of we should be able to do this rather easily.

Yes, absolutely. Then next step would be to have more information on the chosen location to find and look at all this legality part.

As I understand, it is a college specifically for teaching training?


Txalion

#18
Not yet, since I am very poor I'm going to be going to a community collage to get my core classes out of the way, and transfer to a four year school to focus on teaching. There are several hoops I have to jump through to get a teaching certification, however I'll probably focus on teaching older students so that I can teach children of every age group. If I remember correctly, I have to take early childhood education in order to teach older students, so I can be certified to teach up to grade 12.

Oh, and that reminds me, I also intend on teaching the native language of whatever country we end up in (if we are not able to live in Hawaii) as well as Na'vi and English.

I would also love to get to teach the basics of Tribal living, getting to teach skills that every member of the tribe will need to know, and do counseling to older students as to their preferred specialization, whether it be a hunter, a farmer, a healer and so on. I also want to teach adults as well. I think it would be nice to have a place of learning where adults are welcome.
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Sherilyn

Txalion, I'm not sure where you live, but here in the States, Early Childhood Ed refers to the infant to preschool set.  Elementary Ed covers K-8 usually, some states differ.  For a degree in teaching a high school subject, you would need to major in that subject and get a teaching degree in as well.

I have degrees in ECE, and EE, and cyberschool my kids through a public charter school.  Were I 20 years younger, I'd be joining you all, and helping to set up a school.   :(