Permanent Tribe Discussion

[Tutean-tìhawnu]

That, and we already have a separate thread for location discussion

[Txon Taronyu]

Well if you live in californa everywhere is cold exept the jungle and the sun

[Ikranä mokri]

its lucky for some i live in teh wet and grey Uk anywhere is hotter than here.

but going back to my point the people who are talking about where teh tribe should be are on the wrong thread.

but we do need to get an Eyktan so that we have someone that we can put forward ideas ect about it for their consideration seeming as their going to bring us all together.

[txur txe'lante]

I dont really think we need money for any of this. The Na'vi were able to use their natural resources for everything they needed. Sadly Ikran do not exist on our planet but everything else is there for us. We can build our own shelter, make our own bows and catch our own food. so As to this summer camp vs Tribe deal I am too young to stay year round but I would like to so could I be a part of the tribe but not stay year round. when Im over 18 I WILL BE BACK

[MOUNTAINBANSHEE]

i bet this is why there are different clans on pandora. Because they coulden't agree on a place to live. I personally go and chouse the best clan with the best location.  NOT the one that is the closest.(sorry never good at spelling!!!!).

[Fpxafaw Taronyu]

Kaltxí,

IMHO the best place for the tribe would be New Caledonia! Check it out!

The local government does not allow selling property to anyone, but for our unselfish cause i could imagine they would give us a place for free, its like paradise there, the biodiversity is awesome, 80% of all species on earth are living there, they have the 2nd largest reef and the largest lagoon.

I'm pretty sure its the best "Pandora-like" place on Earth! The best thing, there are no volcano, b/c its a part from the former Gondwana (sorry all creationism guys   ) which explains some weird plants there.
It will be independent from France soon, so a new nation will be born, maybe our nation?

Whats your opinion?

Oel ayngati kameie!




Links: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/New_Caledonia

[Txontaw]

That looks like a pretty good location! Why don't you repost that in the Tribe Location Brainstorm topic?

[MOUNTAINBANSHEE]

great idea.

[Fpxafaw Taronyu]

Kaltxí ma tsmuké n,

after reading this and many other threads i assume some of you guys don't see the whole picture yet, if we really want to found a Na´vi culture, we don't need any of technical equipment, no money, nothing of all this useless crap. All we need can be found in nature. Our ancestors were living for almost 10000 years w/o anything and they survived. We also don't need a religion, religions are causing harm, all of them (no offense), all we need is respect to other people and estimation for the planet we are living on. That is fairly enough! There just one Point, we shouldn't forget / ignore, we cannot decide for our unborn children how they have to live, we don't have this right, this could become an major issue, a possible solution (from my POV) could be the "Rumspringa" as practiced by the Amish people. Why there are so many discussions like "How to make a Bow" (as example) ? We will find a solution, we don't need to discuss, learning by doing.

Most of us are adults, we have the free will do choose our way of life. If someone gets sick and cannot be healed w/ local resources, im sorry but in this case we will celebrate a worthy funeral, b/c the affected person made a decision, a decision for life, not a joke. I am pragmatist, black or white, no grey. If you cannot resign the luxury of modern life, you are on the wrong page, just go back, you should not be here, you cannot see, your cup is fulfilled. (irayo Neytiri   )

Furthermore, the most of us (including myself) still have to learn many many things about our Planet, its biology and beauty.
Before we can start anything, we have to be clear about the consequences. I dont want to live with a bunch of freaks which are on "vacation from civilization" for 1-2 years, if i will leave my former life, I will do it right, to live in peace with myself and the Planet who gave me my existence!

Your -"way of"-  life shines the way into paradise
So I offer my life as a sacrifice

<patheticmode on>
No cameras, no reporters, no connection to the outside world, but unfortunately, this will be just a sweet dream that probaly never  comes true.... <patheticmode off>



Atan ta Eywa ngahu!

Im done for now Thx for reading my thoughts!




<disclaimer> This post is reflecting my personal opinion, i dont want to insult anyone.

[The old Uriuujìn]

Kaltxí ma tsmuké n,

after reading this and many other threads i assume some of you guys don't see the whole picture yet, if we really want to found a Na´vi culture, we don't need any of technical equipment, no money, nothing of all this useless crap. All we need can be found in nature. Our ancestors were living for almost 10000 years w/o anything and they survived. We also don't need a religion, religions are causing harm, all of them (no offense), all we need is respect to other people and estimation for the planet we are living on. That is fairly enough! There just one Point, we shouldn't forget / ignore, we cannot decide for our unborn children how they have to live, we don't have this right, this could become an major issue, a possible solution (from my POV) could be the "Rumspringa" as practiced by the Amish people. Why there are so many discussions like "How to make a Bow" (as example) ? We will find a solution, we don't need to discuss, learning by doing.

Most of us are adults, we have the free will do choose our way of life. If someone gets sick and cannot be healed w/ local resources, im sorry but in this case we will celebrate a worthy funeral, b/c the affected person made a decision, a decision for life, not a joke. I am pragmatist, black or white, no grey. If you cannot resign the luxury of modern life, you are on the wrong page, just go back, you should not be here, you cannot see, your cup is fulfilled. (irayo Neytiri   )

Furthermore, the most of us (including myself) still have to learn many many things about our Planet, its biology and beauty.
Before we can start anything, we have to be clear about the consequences. I dont want to live with a bunch of freaks which are on "vacation from civilization" for 1-2 years, if i will leave my former life, I will do it right, to live in peace with myself and the Planet who gave me my existence!

Your -"way of"-  life shines the way into paradise
So I offer my life as a sacrifice

<patheticmode on>
No cameras, no reporters, no connection to the outside world, but unfortunately, this will be just a sweet dream that probaly never  comes true.... <patheticmode off>



Atan ta Eywa ngahu!

Im done for now Thx for reading my thoughts!




<disclaimer> This post is reflecting my personal opinion, i dont want to insult anyone.

I apologize, ma tsmuktu, but I think that you have the wrong idea here- What we are doing is, in my opinion, not copying the Na'vi lifestyle, but creating a human EQUIVALENT to their lifestyle.

The only reason that Humanity has survived as long as it has is through the use of technology. Weaponry, medicine, all of that is technology, weather it is just a rock used for beating animals to death (something I personally do not think is a good idea) to the compounds used to create the Polio vaccine. I, as the Shaman of this tribe, cannot honestly stand and let people DIE (which is what you are suggesting) because they got sick or injured when they could be easily taken care of at a local hospital. As a man of good conscience, I cannot let that occur. The Na'vi have a totally different situation than we have, so there is no way that we can, word for word, emulate their setting.

In a practical sense, as well, think of what would happen to the Tribe should we exist in that manner, and the Press get a hold of it. A group of people letting each other get sick and die just because they want to "go primal?" The government (of many countries, at least, if not most) would send people in immediately, we would all get arrested and put somewhere where we could be "taken care of," like, perhaps, a mental institution. No one would understand, ma tsmuktu.

And I do not care what your "disclaimer" said, I find that calling those who do not share your opinion, "a bunch of freaks which are on 'vacation from civilization'" to be quite insulting, and I do not want to see that sort of language again, is that clear? I know that, personally, I may not be able to be at the Tribe 24/7/365. I have a life that is reluctant to let me go, and I cannot in good conscience allow happen what would happen should I drop everything and live there. Not saying that I will spend as much time humanly possible at and teaching the Tribe. I am actually planning on donating a good portion of my future income to the Tribe regularly, so that we can afford to stay on the land, and that sort of thing. Money, unfortunately is a very important part of the world today. If we don't have it, and we just live on someone's land, they have the right to expel us from it.

Just some food for thought.

Eywa ayngahu

-Uriuujìn

[Fpxafaw Taronyu]

Irayo ma eylan for your frank talk, maybe i overreached, but my intention was to show the controversy in here, means you cannot just jump in for a while and then go back, this will not work, this is inconsequent. For the self-discovery phase, local camps may be an option, to figure out whether someone is ready to go the way to the final tribe(s).

For me it feels wrong, trying to live like an native and still acting as before, All or nothing, no "some kind of", u feel me? Buts that is my thinking / my nature :-) I grew up with a strong affinity to my environment, i hate people killing animals for other reason then eat, my sense of justice is pretty strong, i dont expect you to understand all my points, but this Movie just gave me back a part of my childhood and almost forgotten deep desires have been woken up somehow, since i saw the movie the first time i feel emptiness deep in my chest, im trammeled somehow, I cannot breathe, I saw the Movie 5 Times until now and its getting better but this deep emotion is still there and im glad to share my thoughts with other people, it feels good! 

Regarding letting someone die, you're right, i truly have to apologize this. An emergency exit has to be there. I was some kind of overwhelmed by my own enthusiasm. BTW, if we will found our own nation (see my suggestion in the tribe brainstorm) we will for sure ratify the UN Charta of Human Rights, no question on that!

The Point is, we all have to think very careful about the things we are planning to do, we also have to face the consequences, the good and the bad.

It seems you got this "bunch of freaks" thing to the wrong end of the stick, i want to prevent this, i dont wanna be stamped by others as a freak! You know, most other people from all over the world will make fun of us or even think we are another sect / Hippie / Anti Global movement, that's my concern, undecided / not prepared people wouldn't be helpful to reach a serious / accredited status. But only the future can show us whether it works or not, expect the unexpected. 

Please excuse my bad english, im not an native speaker and sometimes it may sound harsh if you use a foreign language, sorry for that!

Other opinions are very welcome, the subject told me its a discussion !

Eywa ngahu.

[Tíloran]

Kaltxi, ma Fpxafaw.

One of my goals is to become as Na'vi like as possible.  I practice Parkour, ninjitsu, and a lot of other natural-esque sort of things.  By the way, before I get too far into this, talk in Na'vi.  If English is not your native tongue and you are having problems translating some ideas, speak in Na'vi.  One, it's just plain fun, and two, this is kind of a website for learning.  That way we can help each other better understand our own messages.

Now, to the main bulk of what I think your message was, I think.

My ultimate goal is to be as Na'vi as possible, as I mentioned before.  I will have surgery done, I exercise, and I try to eat as natural as possible (though Pizza is hardly natural).  Modern science can make you look very Na'vi like.  I've already priced my surgeons, I'm buying supplies that I need.  Now granted much of the body modifications I'm soon paying for I've wanted to do for some time, long before Avatar came out.  Avatar just gave me a better direction of where I wanted to go.  Apart from that, I'm running for Eyktan.  My goal as the Eyktan is to get this Tribe done, and done right.  Done to the point where we have the freedom to be autonomous.  Done to the point where we don't need to rely on countries, and wherever we are, we own that land.  That way we are safe within our own borders.  I want to make us as Na'vi as possible.  But I know my limitations.

I know that publicity will go a long way to either build up a cause or utterly destroy it.  I know that if we go completely tribal within the US we suffer the possibility of being profiled.  If we become profiled then the government will make a choice as to whether to step in and disband us or leave us alone.  WACO compound should be in everyone's mind right now.  As much as I would love to live without the hassles of "modern" constraints I must acknowledge the benefits "modern" technology and society has brought us.  As such if people come and go, we must allow it.  Even though I'm going to go through body modification to look as Na'vi as possible, I know the people around me must be discouraged from taking such steps.  If the people had to have body modification to look like Na'vi the international community would jump on us and send many of us to jail.  People must have the right to come and go as they please.

Also, I wouldn't be so quick to discourage Na'vi day.  People coming from far away to live a Na'vi lifestyle for a day, a month, a year.  Even if it seems like a resort sort of thing, we can separate them from us by placing them in modern facilities.  This serves multiple purposes.  The first is to create good publicity.  I do not believe that all publicity is good publicity, especially for organizations.  As such giving people the chance to get closer to nature, to just enjoy a Na'vi lifestyle, to escape the crazy world of cities will help get our name out there.  As more and more people come to explore this lifestyle we will gain more and more revenue to fund other things.  We would charge a modest fee for their stay.  This money goes to buying more land, buying needed supplies, or even setting up more tribes elsewhere.  That money is good for us, and we shouldn't be afraid of it.  Another purpose to serve is to keep the government off our back.  Having modern facilities with easy access to emergency crews, but also having a disclaimer that the people chose to be there, shows the government we are serious and capable of doing things our way.  In this capacity we can still live how we want but the government knows we can supply clean water, sanitation, and medicine should the need arise.

As for learning by doing, well I agree to a point.  You can learn by doing, but it sure cuts the learning process down by a lot if you already know how to do it before going in.  Or at the least someone can teach you before you go in.  That's what made us, as a species, survive for so long.  Our genome is not fantastically designed for us to survive.  Our genome can be stored uncompressed on about 1 gig.  Our brain has the ability to store information in the tetrabyte range.  That's a lot of information.  It is our brains, and our collective brain power that makes us a super power.  One human versus alligator equals one full alligator.  Ten humans versus one alligator equals new boots and purse.  If someone has the knowledge before hand and can share it, we grow stronger.  There will be things that we will learn from doing once that time comes, but if we have the knowledge now it is best to share it so the community grows stronger.  That's my opinion at least.

In any case, I would love to have my way ultimately done, but I know I'm not alone and I have to respect what others wish to do.  In the end, Fpxafaw, we have no authority and must "play ball" with the government and media.  We will be labeled as an extreme fan group.  I think it be best we should exploit that label.  So we are fans, yup and come and live like the Na'vi for a day.  Maybe even stay forever if you so choose.  Yeah we may have to jump through hoops and dance our little dance just so we can be left alone for some time, but that won't always be the case.  As time moves on, maybe not in our lifetime or our children's lifetime, but eventually one day we will have laid the foundation for future generations to live free and more in tune with nature.  Who knows what they will think of us in a hundred years from now, but I sure hope we are remembered in that time.

[MOUNTAINBANSHEE]

for one, Tiloran, you have my vote. Thats if we vote, i'm not sure about anything i say on this site is rellvent

now we have talked about alot of things. now i bet at least some people have done some reserch on former or current nomadic or non-nomadic tribes such as the ones in brazil and so forth. for anyone who has read about it i'll put some links.



thats just what happened to one tribe. most tribes are introduced to technology and told and made to settle down into a life like the average human so that the govenment can use that land for farming.


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Indigenous_peoples_in_Brazilhttp://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mongols

[txur txe'lante]

 Ok to begin. First I would like to state the fact that we are not on Pandora. We are on planet Earth and therefore cannot pretend as though our natural world has everything contained in the Na'vi's natural world. We will not let people stand aside and die because it is natures way. Anyone causing disruption on this post needs to rethink their words before they speak. The Na'vi first of all would not be bickering and fighting over useless details. If someone is very ill yes, we will take him to a hospital. Sadly,today money is an important thing and I doubt we will be able to do what we like without paying something to the government. I am 15 years of age and in no way will I be allowed to spend my entire year on an Island. My devotion is true and I will be there every summer and I expect those who stay year round to welcome those of us who do not have the luxury to do so with open arms. Please everyone treat each other as the Na'vi would do and mutual respect is key, Everyone will give what they can and we all should be content with that.

[Ikranä mokri]

tiloran i hope you were joking about the reconstructive surgury!

cause if your not, no offence but isnt that majorly exreme, we have to rember that its a film, fiction, if something about us decideing to make a tribe leaked out into teh papers then we people would look like majory nerdy extremeist who are obsessed with something that isnt real.

im just saying that isnt your which just a little wierd and obsessive.
we evolved this way ( or were created by god this way which ever your view is idc) be happy with the body youve got dont try and change it cause 1 thing goes wrong and your f*** for life

[Tíloran]

Thank you, Ikrana for proving my point.

My way is not the only way, it is merely another way.  I was going to go through body modification a long time before Avatar even came out.  Stalking Cat, the Lizard Guy, and so many other body modification practitioners out there feel the pariah effects of doing what they want to their bodies in this day and age.  I am doing this.  I alone am choosing to do this, and I alone make this choice not because of some movie.  I don't want others to follow in my footsteps, nor do I think people should.

I would also like to point out Na'vi to you, Ikrana no to be offensive but to make a point.  Do you want to start a Tribe called Na'vi or just some tribe.  It has nothing to do with Avatar, or has nothing to do with Na'vi, but just a tribe?  If so then good luck and I will offer what help I can if you ask me.

Otherwise, we will never be able to escape the stigma of nerdy extremist fandom.  Never in our lifetime at least.  A Na'vi tribe will always bear the stigma of Avatar so long as people live long enough to remember the movie.  That is how it is, that is how it's going to be.  That's why I say we should at least exploit the fame that can come from it.

Evolved this way, hm.  We fast approach Lamarckian evolution if we start to consider that we could change into true Na'vi.  Perhaps over several hundred thousand years if our tribe still exists we would undergo the same speciation that has been observed of lizards as of late.

To make something clear, though.  I am happy with my body.  I am very pleased with how it operates and how adaptive it is.  I am also pleased with my body's ability to be reconstructed.  The technology exists for me to mold my body as I see fit.  Now I don't want to trivialize the plight of the Transgendered community, but that same sentiment would ask these people to be happy with their body and not seek help for their gender disphoria.  While I don't have a condition that requires psychiatric attention (contrary to what people may think) I do have the inclination to mold my body as I see fit.  As such I wish to do this because I can and I want to.  I have the means to do this, I already have had psychological consultation for the surgeries (some doctors require this before operation and quite frankly I agree) and have been found to be of sound mind.    Ikrana, I don't say this to pick a fight or to be antagonistic.  I say this because we need to be realistic.  We will not escape fandom labeling in our lifetime.  We will be seen as extremist fans.  We cannot escape that.

Even if I am not Eyktan or people want me to leave, if someone asks me to help with the Tribe I will still help and keep myself at a distance to protect the image of the tribe if need be.  But as I said before, I was going through the surgeries long before Avatar was around.  The movie only gave me a more definite direction I wanted to take my body sculpting.  I don't expect you to agree with it, and I cherish your dissenting point of view.  It's what will make us unique and special.  Ikrana, do what you must do, and I will do what I must do.  But make no mistake that if you want a Na'vi Tribe, you already are an extremist obsessive nerdy fan, just like me and just like the rest of us.

[Ikranä mokri]

well Na'Vi tribe or a just  a tribe either is cool with me really andyour decision is your own i was just thinking about other ramifications that could occur from this tribe and lots of other stuff

[Tíloran]

That's fine, Ikranä.  Those are concerns that should be raised.  They are problems we need to consider.  It is my decision and I don't want to have it affect the Tribe in any way, but how the media portray us or any Tribe that would think to use Na'vi is going to be hit with extremist in the loosest of sense.  But no, I understand your concern and the Public Relations we would have with the media in general should be at the fore front of our minds.

['Itan Atxur]

Since the very freaking first day I watch Avatar, I knew I wanted to do something exactly like this long term. You can TOTALLY count me in for now (actually doing this is an important decission that requires much more than a few weeks thought). I'd want to be a hunter.

But now get this: My parents used to be friends with an insane doc Brown Back to the Future style scientist/inventor. The guy's got a million different insane patents. Unless my memory has completely failed me, he figured out how to legit change the color of peoples skin to ANY color! I don't know if this was just something he was playing around with and has since failed to do or if he just never went anywhere with it. I'm sure theirs something hear that I'm missing because I'm sure we'd have heard something about people changing color by now.

None the less, I'm going to try getting in touch with this guy. It will be hard though, because I don't remember his full name and conversations involving Avatar lead to huge arguements with my parents (whom I don't actually live with, thank God. Love them to death though).

[Mindas Arran]

Since the very freaking first day I watch Avatar, I knew I wanted to do something exactly like this long term. You can TOTALLY count me in for now (actually doing this is an important decission that requires much more than a few weeks thought). I'd want to be a hunter.

In the hunt thread you said you couldn't commit to it? Here you are saying you'd be totally committed and want to be a hunter? What am I not understanding?

On a more general scale, I think people are forgetting how unforgiving nature can be. If people jump in with both feet without proper training and conditioning, they will find that they are ill equipped, mentally, and ill suited, physically, for the reality of primal living. It's worth remembering that the consequences for said lack of forethought could cost lives.

The number of people who will entertain the notion of Na'vi-esque primal living will far outnumber the people willing to do what needs to be done in order to see the fruition of that dream.